Opinion On Same-Sex Marriage

[San Lumen]

You clearly know nothing about the industry. Good studios pay their actors well and treat them well and are working for them under their on free will. They can leave at any time. What harm is being done if they are working there because they want too? This is better suited for its on thread though.

The fact that possibly the single most famous pornographic actor is presently on trial for literally dozens of incidents where he abused his co-workers seems to indicate otherwise.

I have no idea who your talking about. One person does not represent everyone.

[Sundiata]

Because sex within the bounds of the matrimonial sacrament consummates a marriage. To be married is to be open to the following things: intimacy, struggle, child-bearing, and God's love. It's to become one flesh with one's spouse and share in the mystery that is God's love for us all.

Ah so just metaphysical nonsense then, gotcha

I don't think it's nonsense, I think it's lovely. My question for you: are you feeling all right? I don't hate you, God doesn't hate you. Same-sex marriage is a divisive topic, much like abortion, or almost any manner of contemporary subjects.

If this conversation is bringing you to an uncomfortable place personally, I don't mind waiting to resume it. I don't want you to get the sense that you don't matter or are being excluded on the basis of your sexual preferences or identity.

I stand with you; God stands with you.

[Neutraligon]

Hydrophobic does not mean a substance fears water.

It also doesn't mean that water ought not get married.

I never claimed it did, just that phobic does not necessarily mean fear. Repulsion is likely closer to the use when talking about homophobia.

[Telconi]

The fact that possibly the single most famous pornographic actor is presently on trial for literally dozens of incidents where he abused his co-workers seems to indicate otherwise.

I have no idea who your talking about. One person does not represent everyone.

Unless that one person is a police officer, or something.

[Telconi]

It also doesn't mean that water ought not get married.

I never claimed it did, just that phobic does not necessarily mean fear. Repulsion is likely closer to the use when talking about homophobia.

Still has nothing to do with marriage.

[New haven america]

The fact that possibly the single most famous pornographic actor is presently on trial for literally dozens of incidents where he abused his co-workers seems to indicate otherwise.

I have no idea who your talking about. One person does not represent everyone.

Ron Jeremy faces 250 years in prison for sexually harassing and assaulting up to 30 women and 1-3 children.

[Heloin]

The Mother Superior at the Catholic school I went to as a kid was a swearing Afrikaner in her late 80s who said she didn't care which of us turned out gay, so long as you memorised the fucking prayers you'd turn out alright. She also punched a homophobic American missionary.

While she is standing up for what is right there's a beauty in that. However, I don't condone of violence or homophobia. I'm glad she didn't stand for the latter.

I think the image of an 87 year old woman chasing a American out of the school while swearing at him in five languages is a beauty all it's own.

Well except you do because you don't believe LGBT should be allowed to get married.

"Phobia" means "fear", not "Thinks this thing ought not get married"

You've received the Pedantic's Award for Pedantry! Congratulations on full well knowing what a word means, but insisting on taking it's absolute literal meaning instead.

[New haven america]

While she is standing up for what is right there's a beauty in that. However, I don't condone of violence or homophobia. I'm glad she didn't stand for the latter.

I think the image of an 87 year old woman chasing a American out of the school while swearing at him in five languages is a beauty all it's own.

"Phobia" means "fear", not "Thinks this thing ought not get married"

You've received the Pedantic's Award for Pedantry! Congratulations on full well knowing what a word means, but insisting on taking it's absolute literal meaning instead.

Let's be honest, this is not the most pedantic Tel has ever been.

[Neutraligon]

I never claimed it did, just that phobic does not necessarily mean fear. Repulsion is likely closer to the use when talking about homophobia.

Still has nothing to do with marriage.

Considering that refusal to recognize legal SSM is homophobic (ie the person is repulsed by homosexuals) yes, it does. Either that or you comment that homophobia means fear has nothing to do with marriage either.

[Telconi]

While she is standing up for what is right there's a beauty in that. However, I don't condone of violence or homophobia. I'm glad she didn't stand for the latter.

I think the image of an 87 year old woman chasing a American out of the school while swearing at him in five languages is a beauty all it's own.

"Phobia" means "fear", not "Thinks this thing ought not get married"

You've received the Pedantic's Award for Pedantry! Congratulations on full well knowing what a word means, but insisting on taking it's absolute literal meaning instead.

It's a meaningless word, it's only functional definition is "You oppose political beliefs that are allegedly those of homosexual people"

[San Lumen]

I have no idea who your talking about. One person does not represent everyone.

Unless that one person is a police officer, or something.

Not the topic.

[Telconi]

Still has nothing to do with marriage.

Considering that refusal to recognize legal SSM is homophobic (ie the person is repulsed by homosexuals) yes, it does. Either that or you comment that homophobia means fear has nothing to do with marriage either.

I guess we're all pedophobic now...

[Sundiata]

When you come to understand the beauty of Mary you'll come to realize how how blessed they are, and in turn, all women too.

Since Mary is long dead, if she ever existed, I doubt I will ever "see her beauty" nor do I see what her looks/personality has to do with SSM.

My apologies, once I start talking about her it's difficult to stop; I love her. I'd actually love to speak with you in private about her if you have the time. If not, there's always the Christian Discussion Thread.

[Neutraligon]

I think the image of an 87 year old woman chasing a American out of the school while swearing at him in five languages is a beauty all it's own.


You've received the Pedantic's Award for Pedantry! Congratulations on full well knowing what a word means, but insisting on taking it's absolute literal meaning instead.

It's a meaningless word, it's only functional definition is "You oppose political beliefs that are allegedly those of homosexual people"

Nice dodge, either your comment had nothing to do with marriage (in which case my response correcting your definition also has nothing to do with marriage), o your comment does have to do with marriage, in which case mine does. That you seem incapable of correctly understanding the definition is not my problem.

[Telconi]

It's a meaningless word, it's only functional definition is "You oppose political beliefs that are allegedly those of homosexual people"

Nice dodge, either your comment had nothing to do with marriage (in which case my response correcting your definition also has nothing to do with marriage), o your comment does have to do with marriage, in which case mine does. That you seem incapable of correctly understanding the definition is not my problem.

Then go away?

[Neutraligon]

Nice dodge, either your comment had nothing to do with marriage (in which case my response correcting your definition also has nothing to do with marriage), o your comment does have to do with marriage, in which case mine does. That you seem incapable of correctly understanding the definition is not my problem.

Then go away?

Nope, I have just as much right to bash my head against your bad posts as everyone else. Must be the masochist in me.

[Telconi]

Then go away?

Nope, I have just as much right to bash my head against your bad posts as everyone else. Must be the masochist in me.

Well then you're making it your problem, aren't you?

[Heloin]

Then go away?

Nope, I have just as much right to bash my head against your bad posts as everyone else. Must be the masochist in me.

At the end of the day, isn't masochism the only reason any of us can justify our time spent on NSG?

[Telconi]

Nope, I have just as much right to bash my head against your bad posts as everyone else. Must be the masochist in me.

At the end of the day, isn't masochism the only reason any of us can justify our time spent on NSG?

I quite enjoy my time here.

[Jedi Council]

Ah so just metaphysical nonsense then, gotcha

I don't think it's nonsense, I think it's lovely. My question for you: are you feeling all right? I don't hate you, God doesn't hate you. Same-sex marriage is a divisive topic, much like abortion, or almost any manner of contemporary subjects.

If this conversation is bringing you to an uncomfortable place personally, I don't mind waiting to resume it. I don't want you to get the sense that you don't matter or are being excluded on the basis of your sexual preferences or identity.

I stand with you; God stands with you.

I am entirely fine, your condescension aside.

I never said you hated me personally, but it cannot be denied that the official teachings of the Church is that I, by virtue of being a homosexual, am fundamentally "disordered." There is not enough mewling nonsense about love or forgiveness in the world to change that fact

On a fundamental level, your faith is opposed to my identity. It is opposed to people like me having the same rights and privileges as other people. It believes I am, as I said, a "disordered" individual. It has persecuted people like me for centuries, it has had the temerity to blame people like me for the heinous crimes its own members commit.

So, while I thank you for your concern, I politely decline. You do not stand with me, or people like me. You, your God, and your church, stand opposed to us, it's that simple. Any statement to the contrary is either an utter lie, or just incredible condescension.

[Heloin]

At the end of the day, isn't masochism the only reason any of us can justify our time spent on NSG?

I quite enjoy my time here.

At the risk of being pedantic, yes masochism will do that

[Sundiata]

I don't think it's nonsense, I think it's lovely. My question for you: are you feeling all right? I don't hate you, God doesn't hate you. Same-sex marriage is a divisive topic, much like abortion, or almost any manner of contemporary subjects.

If this conversation is bringing you to an uncomfortable place personally, I don't mind waiting to resume it. I don't want you to get the sense that you don't matter or are being excluded on the basis of your sexual preferences or identity.

I stand with you; God stands with you.

I am entirely fine, your condescension aside.

I never said you hated me personally, but it cannot be denied that the official teachings of the Church is that I, by virtue of being a homosexual, am fundamentally "disordered." There is not enough mewling nonsense about love or forgiveness in the world to change that fact

On a fundamental level, your faith is opposed to my identity. It is opposed to people like me having the same rights and privileges as other people. It believes I am, as I said, a "disordered" individual. It has persecuted people like me for centuries, it has had the temerity to blame people like me for the heinous crimes its own members commit.

So, while I thank you for your concern, I politely decline. You do not stand with me, or people like me. You, your God, and your church, stand opposed to us, it's that simple. Any statement to the contrary is either an utter lie, or just incredible condescension.

God doesn't think you're disordered; you've misread the catechism. You're fantastic and more lovely than you know. Please have a good day.

[Crockerland]

Well except you do because you don't believe LGBT should be allowed to get married.

"Phobia" means "fear", not "Thinks this thing ought not get married"

A phobia is an irrational aversion which does not necessarily manifest as fear. Even if it was exclusively a fear (it's not), that still leaves the condoning of violence. And if you are against marriage equality, you are definitely in favor of violence.

If I get married, are you gonna send armed thugs to arrest me? Are they gonna ask politely if they can arrest me and just give up if I say no? Even if not, are you going to arrest the pastor who officialized the wedding? How about an IRS worker who refuses to discriminate against me and gives me the tax breaks for married individuals? Does he get arrested? Even if none of those people are arrested and they just get fired or whatever, when the IRS reverses the tax break for being married and I refuse to pay extra which I don't owe (since I'm married) will I get arrested for tax evasion then?

Because if so, at some point, that's an act of unprovoked violence against an innocent person.


You can't say you want something to be illegal but don't support violence against the people you're targeting. While society likes to pretend that violence is not violence when used in the context of military or law enforcement applications, and turn a blind eye to such acts, the fact is that laws rely on violence in order to function.

If you want anything to be illegal, you're saying you're okay with using physical violence against people who participate in that thing. Oh, you support farm subsidies? Okay, so if I don't pay the farm subsidy tax, what happens? I get fined? What if I don't pay the fine? I get arrested? What if I don't let the police into my house? "Oh yeah, I want the police to lay siege to your home but I'm not condoning violence or anything."


Of course, that shouldn't be misinterpreted as "we shouldn't have laws." With things like taxes, we can recognize that this is simply necessary in order for society to function. If people were simply able to opt-out of the law of any given nation, that civilization would not continue to exist. For things like rape or murders, there is really no moral issue with inflicting violence on those people, as they are directly victimizing someone else with violence.

However, in the case of opposing marriage equality, there is no threat to civilization, there is no threat to anyone else's physical safety, the issue is simply "you were born differently than me, so I am okay with the use of violence to force you to remain lower than me in society." It's comparable to having a caste system or a racial supremacist government.

[Jedi Council]

I am entirely fine, your condescension aside.

I never said you hated me personally, but it cannot be denied that the official teachings of the Church is that I, by virtue of being a homosexual, am fundamentally "disordered." There is not enough mewling nonsense about love or forgiveness in the world to change that fact

On a fundamental level, your faith is opposed to my identity. It is opposed to people like me having the same rights and privileges as other people. It believes I am, as I said, a "disordered" individual. It has persecuted people like me for centuries, it has had the temerity to blame people like me for the heinous crimes its own members commit.

So, while I thank you for your concern, I politely decline. You do not stand with me, or people like me. You, your God, and your church, stand opposed to us, it's that simple. Any statement to the contrary is either an utter lie, or just incredible condescension.

God doesn't think you're disordered; you've misread the catechism. You're fantastic and more lovely than you know. Please have a good day.

The literal passage from the Catechism says as follows;

Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.... The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial....These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition

That was pulled from the Vatican's official website. Not only are homosexual acts considered a grave depravity, but the very inclination towards them is also considered to be, as I said, "disordered." And to top it off, it concludes by calling homosexuality a "condition" as though it is some kind of plague, or medical ailment.

The throw away line about accepting homosexuals with love and sensitivity does not change the fact that the Church fundamentally views us as disordered, and our acts of love as depraved.

Please tell me how I have misread that passage.

[Sundiata]

God doesn't think you're disordered; you've misread the catechism. You're fantastic and more lovely than you know. Please have a good day.

The literal passage from the Catechism says as follows;

Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.... The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial....These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition

That was pulled from the Vatican's official website. Not only are homosexula acts considered a grave depravity, but the very inclination towards them is also considered to be, as I said, "disordered." And to top it off, it concludes by calling homosexuality a "condition" as though it is some kind of plague, or medical ailment.

The throw away line about accepting homosexuals with love and sensitivity does not change the fact that the Church fundamentally views us as disordered, and our acts of love as depraved.

Please tell me how I have misread that passage.

Depraved, yes. Disordered, yes.

It's not your personhood that's being referred to. The order that the catechism is referring to is divine law. Anything which violates natural law which stems from divine law is depraved and disordered in that sense. However, to have homosexual feelings and inclinations is not sinful but still disordered. However, sinful actions are certainly depraved, certainly disordered.

You are not a depraved person, you are not a disordered person. You are not sinful. However, your condition (not your sexual orientation) can be. For example, if I were to look at a woman in lust my condition also then becomes sinful. As a result, I'd also have to go to confession to perform the sacrament of reconciliation to seek God's love. We should be confessing our sins to the person of Christ as often as we can. If possible, we should seek his love without ceasing.

Gay marriage is not sacramental, but neither is looking at a woman with lust, or for example, using her for her body.