The Quad Alliance: Asia’s NATO?

[Liriena]

COVID-19 is its technical name. It has nothing to do with "the CCP's propaganda machine", unless you've now allowed yourself to be manipulated into believing that virology is a communist science.

I don't care how technical it is and I'm not dismissing the science.

But you are dismissing the science.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Sounds like a brilliant idea. Let's start with Hong Kong.

Hong Kongers are individualists, sorry. They don't qualify for participation in the programme.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

This is what happens when you antagonize Indian forces along the Himalayan border and sanction Australia for calling for an investigation into the origins of the CCP virus*. You turn previously neutral countries against you. The pieces are finally beginning to fall into place. Indonesia's our next-door neighbor. This is great news if true.

First, we liberate the North Borneo Sea. Next, we liberate Hong Kong. Communism must be defeated. Whatever it takes.

*Not spreading corona conspiracy crap. Many people call it this.

Sure, and if you're so eager you can be first off the landing craft. Good luck!

[Socialistic Britain]

I feel like each day, we get closer to the whole world being destroyed.

[Novus America]

And the nuclear clock ticks one second closer.

On the contrary. If you want peace, prepare for war. The PRC is not suicidal, they will not start a war they cannot win. They attack the weak, not the strong. If we put a strong united front against them they will back down.
They only understand force, the threat of force, tariffs and trade bans.

And we must interact with them in on that basis. Not try to appeal to the better nature of a regime that has no better nature.

[Kiu Ghesik]

And the nuclear clock ticks one second closer.

On the contrary. If you want peace, prepare for war. The PRC is not suicidal, they will not start a war they cannot win. They attack the weak, not the strong. If we put a strong united front against them they will back down.
They only understand force, the threat of force, tariffs and trade bans.

And we must interact with them in on that basis. Not try to appeal to the better nature of a regime that has not better nature.

Realpolitik, +1

[Novus America]

No it isn't, it's a petty dispute between the two countries with more than a billion people.

This.

It is a struggle for the very future of the entire world. It will determine what forms of civilization and governance will survive, and which will not.
Not petty at all.

[Whitemore]

This.

It is a struggle for the very future of the entire world. It will determine what forms of civilization and governance will survive, and which will not.
Not petty at all.

I don't buy into Imperialist Propaganda, Same thing has been said before and civilization marched on. Let India and China fight each other for all I care, India will eventually be a Geopolitical threat to the United States regardless of whether or not we back them. These worthless battles will just weaken them both in the long run and that is good for us.

[Kiu Ghesik]

It is a struggle for the very future of the entire world. It will determine what forms of civilization and governance will survive, and which will not.
Not petty at all.

I don't buy into Imperialist Propaganda, Same thing has been said before and civilization marched on. Let India and China fight each other for all I care, India will eventually be a Geopolitical threat to the United States regardless of whether or not we back them. These worthless battles will just weaken them both in the long run and that is good for us.

Do you buy into allowing a nation actively engaged in genocide and cultural erasure with a history of human rights abuses to expand unimpeded?

[Whitemore]

I don't buy into Imperialist Propaganda, Same thing has been said before and civilization marched on. Let India and China fight each other for all I care, India will eventually be a Geopolitical threat to the United States regardless of whether or not we back them. These worthless battles will just weaken them both in the long run and that is good for us.

Do you buy into allowing a nation actively engaged in genocide and cultural erasure with a history of human rights abuses to expand unimpeded?

India has done the same thing through it's short history as an Independent Country, they can both rot.

[Kiu Ghesik]

Do you buy into allowing a nation actively engaged in genocide and cultural erasure with a history of human rights abuses to expand unimpeded?

India has done the same thing through it's short history as an Independent Country, they can both rot.

That's a good point, though I would argue China's the worse of the two.

[Waldoven]

Oh, look at the time! It's 1 minute closer to doomsday! Yay... But seriously, China's influence will continue to expand. This pact might slow it, but it won't stop it.

[Whitemore]

India has done the same thing through it's short history as an Independent Country, they can both rot.

That's a good point, though I would argue China's the worse of the two.

I agree with you Kiu Ghesik, however I would rather just remain neutral. I see both countries as enemies, not it's people but rather their Governments.

[Aureumterra]

Do you buy into allowing a nation actively engaged in genocide and cultural erasure with a history of human rights abuses to expand unimpeded?

India has done the same thing through it's short history as an Independent Country, they can both rot.

Evidence for India engaging in genocide and cultural erasure?

India has done the same thing through it's short history as an Independent Country, they can both rot.

That's a good point

Same thing here

[Novus America]

It is a struggle for the very future of the entire world. It will determine what forms of civilization and governance will survive, and which will not.
Not petty at all.

I don't buy into Imperialist Propaganda, Same thing has been said before and civilization marched on. Let India and China fight each other for all I care, India will eventually be a Geopolitical threat to the United States regardless of whether or not we back them. It'll just weaken them both in the long run and that is good for us.

Sure history always continues, but civilizations fell along the way, most did not survive.
Forms of governance once popular fallen into abeyance. The dominant one at one time not the dominant one next.

The PRC is the threat now, and we must contain it. If they become completely dominant and we are left completely dependent on them we have lost.

Maybe they will fall too, maybe we will come back, maybe we will not. Thus our goal is not to fall into such a position worse than we already have.

India will not be a geopolitical threat to us as long as the PRC is a threat to them, but if they fall to the PRC the PRC threat becomes much more deadly. Thus we do not want them to fall, for realist reasons, not just moral ones.

The only way we can effectively counter the PRC is their population plus our economic power.

Otherwise we cannot match the PRC population wise. The PRC is has one huge advantage over us, having us outnumbered 4 to 1 in people. India fixes that, takes out their biggest advantage.

[Kiu Ghesik]

India has done the same thing through it's short history as an Independent Country, they can both rot.

Evidence for India engaging in genocide and cultural erasure?

That's a good point

Same thing here

Not necessarily genocide, but the whole "Muslims in India facing violence, mass exodus to Pakistan and Bangladesh, Indian nationalists advocating for India being a HIndu ethnostate, et cetera" kind of counts of cultural erasure, or at least movement to another place.

[Aureumterra]

Evidence for India engaging in genocide and cultural erasure?


Same thing here

Not necessarily genocide, but the whole "Muslims in India facing violence, mass exodus to Pakistan and Bangladesh, Indian nationalists advocating for India being a HIndu ethnostate, et cetera" kind of counts of cultural erasure, or at least movement to another place.

So then India isn’t engaging in genocide and cultural erasure

[Whitemore]

Evidence for India engaging in genocide and cultural erasure?


Same thing here

Not necessarily genocide, but the whole "Muslims in India facing violence, mass exodus to Pakistan and Bangladesh, Indian nationalists advocating for India being a HIndu ethnostate, et cetera" kind of counts of cultural erasure, or at least movement to another place.

This is what I was referring to mostly, though in my opinion there were some truly awful human right abuses and ethnic massacres in Assam for the people there or in Rajputana that has cast a Dark Image over India that will haunt them for decades.

[The American Free States]

Very good. Initiate phase one. Combine it with NATO.
Initiate phase two, now. It does appear Russia really has a liking for India, if this is true, it will be very useful to try to convince them to join this alliance. This knocks another ally off of China’s list. If Russia joined the Allies, Iran and Syria would have two choices. Choice one, stick with daddy Putin and join the Allies. Choice two, abandon Putin. If they pick choice one, this would create an alliance that hasn’t been seen since WW2 and could really help stabilize the geopolitical landscape.
Initiate the last phase, phase three. China appears to have many debt trapped nations around the world, specifically many African and Central Asian nations. We need to help bail out these countries in exchange for joining the Allies, and then, together, we can defeat Nazi Ger- I mean the PRC, of course.
Phase 69 PRC gets rekt’d.
Phase ??? ROC gets in power.

This is an extremely optimistic look, but WW3 is coming. And may I remind everyone that appeasement, ignoring it, and/or not portraying strength only delays it.

[Whitemore]

I don't buy into Imperialist Propaganda, Same thing has been said before and civilization marched on. Let India and China fight each other for all I care, India will eventually be a Geopolitical threat to the United States regardless of whether or not we back them. It'll just weaken them both in the long run and that is good for us.

Sure history always continues, but civilizations fell along the way, most did not survive.
Forms of governance once popular fallen into abeyance. The dominant one at one time not the dominant one next.

The PRC is the threat now, and we must contain it. If they become completely dominant and we are left completely dependent on them we have lost.

Maybe they will fall too, maybe we will come back, maybe we will not. Thus our goal is not to fall into such a position worse than we already have.

India will not be a geopolitical threat to us as long as the PRC is a threat to them, but if they fall to the PRC the PRC threat becomes much more deadly. Thus we do not want them to fall, for realist reasons, not just moral ones.

The only way we can effectively counter the PRC is their population plus our economic power.

Otherwise we cannot match the PRC population wise. The PRC is has one huge advantage over us, having us outnumbered 4 to 1 in people. India fixes that, takes out their biggest advantage.

I agree with your statement that India will not be a threat to us while China faces them, which is why I think it's best we do not interfere in any way besides maybe economically, the longer we let them fight it out the longer we will have to fix the multiple issues plaguing America and make sure we're ready to face them. I think I remember seeing you say something either in this forum or another about ways we could economically cripple China and I did think they were the best course of action, because in my opinion we've already lost the economic war with how much China has a hold on our Economy.

[Novus America]

That's a good point, though I would argue China's the worse of the two.

I agree with you Kiu Ghesik, however I would rather just remain neutral. I see both countries as enemies, not it's people but rather their Governments.

You cannot remain neutral when the outcome of the fight determines your future. If the PRC can beat India, it leaves us in a horrible situation. India cannot beat the PRC, but it can contain it.

The goal is NOT for Indian troops to march into Shanghai of course. That would be absurd, the point is protecting India puts a check on the PRC. The point is keeping India from falling to PRC domination, not helping the India dominate the PRC, which is not our goal (nor India’s).

I do not view India as an enemy. They want to be the dominant power in their subcontinent. I am fine with that. The Indian subcontinent is not critical to our defense. But the Pacific Ocean is.
The world is big enough for the both of the US and India.

This is something similar to West Germany in the First Cold War. A weak West Germany made us weaker, but a strong West Germany provided a large ground force to contain the Soviets, freeing up our resources for naval an air power.

[Whitemore]

Very good. Initiate phase one. Combine it with NATO.
Initiate phase two, now. It does appear Russia really has a liking for India, if this is true, it will be very useful to try to convince them to join this alliance. This knocks another ally off of China’s list. If Russia joined the Allies, Iran and Syria would have two choices. Choice one, stick with daddy Putin and join the Allies. Choice two, abandon Putin. If they pick choice one, this would create an alliance that hasn’t been seen since WW2 and could really help stabilize the geopolitical landscape.
Initiate the last phase, phase three. China appears to have many debt trapped nations around the world, specifically many African and Central Asian nations. We need to help bail out these countries in exchange for joining the Allies, and then, together, we can defeat Nazi Ger- I mean the PRC, of course.
Phase 69 PRC gets rekt’d.
Phase ??? ROC gets in power.

This is an extremely optimistic look, but WW3 is coming. And may I remind everyone that appeasement, ignoring it, and/or not portraying strength only delays it.

What the..

[Novus America]

Sure history always continues, but civilizations fell along the way, most did not survive.
Forms of governance once popular fallen into abeyance. The dominant one at one time not the dominant one next.

The PRC is the threat now, and we must contain it. If they become completely dominant and we are left completely dependent on them we have lost.

Maybe they will fall too, maybe we will come back, maybe we will not. Thus our goal is not to fall into such a position worse than we already have.

India will not be a geopolitical threat to us as long as the PRC is a threat to them, but if they fall to the PRC the PRC threat becomes much more deadly. Thus we do not want them to fall, for realist reasons, not just moral ones.

The only way we can effectively counter the PRC is their population plus our economic power.

Otherwise we cannot match the PRC population wise. The PRC is has one huge advantage over us, having us outnumbered 4 to 1 in people. India fixes that, takes out their biggest advantage.

I agree with your statement that India will not be a threat to us while China faces them, which is why I think it's best we do not interfere in any way besides maybe economically, the longer we let them fight it out will grant us more time to built up and fix the multiple issues facing America. I think I remember seeing you say something either in this forum or another about ways we could economically cripple China and I did think they were the best course of action, because in my opinion we've already lost the economic war with how much China has a hold on our Economy.

But that is why we must ensure India is strong enough to face the PRC. If the PRC can beat India into submission we are screwed.
I am not advocating the US and India attack the PRC, that is not the goal. The goal is not for India to “win” a decisive victory over the PRC (India does not even seek that), the objective is to make sure India does not lose.

Keeping India strong, and able to keep the PRC on a two front defensive buys us time.

The PRC cannot face is in the ocean and the India on the land at the same time. The more the PRC builds up its naval forces, the weaker its land forces become.

If the PRC can eliminate India as a ground competitor, they can pump all their resources into their naval and air forces in the Pacific. But as long as India is strong, doing that is less viable.

[Whitemore]

I agree with your statement that India will not be a threat to us while China faces them, which is why I think it's best we do not interfere in any way besides maybe economically, the longer we let them fight it out will grant us more time to built up and fix the multiple issues facing America. I think I remember seeing you say something either in this forum or another about ways we could economically cripple China and I did think they were the best course of action, because in my opinion we've already lost the economic war with how much China has a hold on our Economy.

But that is why we must ensure India is strong enough to face the PRC. If the PRC can beat India into submission we are screwed.
I am not advocating the US and India attack the PRC, that is not the goal. The goal is not for India to “win” a decisive victory over the PRC (India does not even seek that), the objective is to make sure India does not lose.

Keeping India strong, and able to keep the PRC on a two front defensive buys us time.

The PRC cannot face is in the ocean and the India on the land at the same time. The more the PRC builds up its naval forces, the weaker its land forces become.

If the PRC can eliminate India as a ground competitor, they can pump all their resources into their naval and air forces in the Pacific. But as long as India is strong, doing that is less viable.

I see what you're saying but I honestly do not believe China could beat India down militarily, perhaps they could hit a stalemate in the vast mountains between their nations but I could never see China beating India so harshly that they would start to conquer them.

[The American Free States]

Very good. Initiate phase one. Combine it with NATO.
Initiate phase two, now. It does appear Russia really has a liking for India, if this is true, it will be very useful to try to convince them to join this alliance. This knocks another ally off of China’s list. If Russia joined the Allies, Iran and Syria would have two choices. Choice one, stick with daddy Putin and join the Allies. Choice two, abandon Putin. If they pick choice one, this would create an alliance that hasn’t been seen since WW2 and could really help stabilize the geopolitical landscape.
Initiate the last phase, phase three. China appears to have many debt trapped nations around the world, specifically many African and Central Asian nations. We need to help bail out these countries in exchange for joining the Allies, and then, together, we can defeat Nazi Ger- I mean the PRC, of course.
Phase 69 PRC gets rekt’d.
Phase ??? ROC gets in power.

This is an extremely optimistic look, but WW3 is coming. And may I remind everyone that appeasement, ignoring it, and/or not portraying strength only delays it.

What the..

Any additional support this alliance can possibly get, it needs to take. Including siding with Russia. Siding with Russia also prevents the war from turning nuclear, since China doesn’t hold the same nuclear capability as Russia or America.