UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[The New California Republic]

Its because of refugees and immagration the Uk left the EU

[Ifreann]

No, fines and prison time have the same problem in that the a given punishment could be harsher for one person and more lenient for another.

All punishment can be better or worse for an indervidual depending on all sorts of personal and emotional circumstances.

Yes, but the differences in financial impact are objectively measurable, stark, and not an intended element of the punishment. The point of locking someone up for a week, or a month, or a year, is to punish them with confinement for that period of time. Being financially ruined is not the point. Yet it presumably does happen. I can't imagine the HMP reimburses prisoners for lost income when they're released. So even if one agrees with a punitive, carceral system, this is a problem.

The only equal treatment for convicted felons would be no punishments at all.

That's true and a good point.

[Thermodolia]

So your trips to see the BF are allowed?

Yes.

I don't think we need them honestly. There is always a way that the victim can counteract that sort of crime.

...how can the victim of someone running a red light counteract the running of the red light when they are lying dead on the pavement?

They’ll just haunt them you see

[CoraSpia]

Yes.


...how can the victim of someone running a red light counteract the running of the red light when they are lying dead on the pavement?

They’ll just haunt them you see

They can get out of the way.

[Thermodolia]

Its because of refugees and immagration the Uk left the EU

Speaking of Brexit what the hell is up with BoJo wanting to renegotiate things?

[The New California Republic]

The rules in Scotland really are absurd though: you can't meet people in their homes, but you can go down to the pub to meet them, and therefore come into contact with a lot more other people than would happen in the former? Nonsense. Total nonsense.

[Thermodolia]

They’ll just haunt them you see

They can get out of the way.

Because that’s always possible to do in a split second before some dumbass going 90+ plows into them

[Vassenor]

They’ll just haunt them you see

They can get out of the way.

And women who don't want to be raped can just not wear short skirts or close their legs.

[Thermodolia]

The rules in Scotland really are absurd though: you can't meet people in their homes, but you can go down to the pub to meet them, and therefore come into contact with a lot more other people than would happen in the former? Nonsense. Total nonsense.

Alcohol matters more than family apparently

[CoraSpia]

The rules in Scotland really are absurd though: you can't meet people in their homes, but you can go down to the pub to meet them, and therefore come into contact with a lot more other people than would happen in the former? Nonsense. Total nonsense.

The first is ridiculous, not the second though.

[The New California Republic]

...how can the victim of someone running a red light counteract the running of the red light when they are lying dead on the pavement?

They can get out of the way.

...you clearly have no idea how difficult it'd be to avoid getting hit by a car in such a situation. The onus is very much on the driver to obey the rules, not the pedestrian to counteract the former disobeying the rules.

[The Nihilistic view]

All punishment can be better or worse for an indervidual depending on all sorts of personal and emotional circumstances.

Yes, but the differences in financial impact are objectively measurable, stark, and not an intended element of the punishment. The point of locking someone up for a week, or a month, or a year, is to punish them with confinement for that period of time. Being financially ruined is not the point. Yet it presumably does happen. I can't imagine the HMP reimburses prisoners for lost income when they're released. So even if one agrees with a punitive, carceral system, this is a problem.

The only equal treatment for convicted felons would be no punishments at all.

That's true and a good point.

If we just take covid for example, im not going to hold a party at my house say regardless of if I earned 10k 20k what I actually earn or 100k. Equally I think most people that will hold a party don't really take any regard of the fine because whilst I won't do it because its the right thing to do you have other people who we won't name that will do silly stuff because they don't take covid seriously.

As a more philosophical point I think fines should cover the negative externalities of an action not serious enough for prison but I don't think arbitrary amounts does a lot. Having the fine or not having the fine will do the most rather than the ammount.

[The Nihilistic view]

They can get out of the way.

And women who don't want to be raped can just not wear short skirts or close their legs.

They should market Jeggings as anti rape trousers, that will save countless victims......

[Hurdergaryp]

The rules in Scotland really are absurd though: you can't meet people in their homes, but you can go down to the pub to meet them, and therefore come into contact with a lot more other people than would happen in the former? Nonsense. Total nonsense.

Alcohol matters more than family apparently

Or perhaps it is a matter of alcohol making the family life tolerable.

[The New California Republic]

The rules in Scotland really are absurd though: you can't meet people in their homes, but you can go down to the pub to meet them, and therefore come into contact with a lot more other people than would happen in the former? Nonsense. Total nonsense.

The first is ridiculous, not the second though.

It's ridiculous in its totality, i.e. when the two rules are stood side by side and compared and the blatant contradiction comes to light, that's what makes it absurd.

[Novus America]

The first is ridiculous, not the second though.

It's ridiculous in its totality, i.e. when the two rules are stood side by side and compared and the blatant contradiction comes to light, that's what makes it absurd.

But since the SNP made the rules, is it not expected the rules would be absurd?

[Hurdergaryp]

The first is ridiculous, not the second though.

It's ridiculous in its totality, i.e. when the two rules are stood side by side and compared and the blatant contradiction comes to light, that's what makes it absurd.

But is it absurd enough to make a good hypothetical Monty Python sketch?

[The New California Republic]

It's ridiculous in its totality, i.e. when the two rules are stood side by side and compared and the blatant contradiction comes to light, that's what makes it absurd.

But since the SNP made the rules, is it not expected the rules would be absurd?

Well on paper it's the Scottish Government that is making the rules, but since Sturgeon is at the helm...

But is it absurd enough to make a good hypothetical Monty Python sketch?

I'm sure satirical magazines like Private Eye are tearing it all to shreds, but unfortunately I haven't bought one in quite some time so I haven't seen what they are making of it.

[CoraSpia]

But since the SNP made the rules, is it not expected the rules would be absurd?

Well on paper it's the Scottish Government that is making the rules, but since Sturgeon is at the helm...

But is it absurd enough to make a good hypothetical Monty Python sketch?

I'm sure satirical magazines like Private Eye are tearing it all to shreds, but unfortunately I haven't bought one in quite some time so I haven't seen what they are making of it.

I just wish this was an SNP thing, but it seems to be an everybody thing at the moment.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Saw vague somethings about bringing in the military to supplement the police but I'm not sure what the context was.

Boris Johnson is presumably just trolling Huskar at this point.

Come on then Boris you big ole fucking cunt

[Ifreann]

Yes, but the differences in financial impact are objectively measurable, stark, and not an intended element of the punishment. The point of locking someone up for a week, or a month, or a year, is to punish them with confinement for that period of time. Being financially ruined is not the point. Yet it presumably does happen. I can't imagine the HMP reimburses prisoners for lost income when they're released. So even if one agrees with a punitive, carceral system, this is a problem.

That's true and a good point.

If we just take covid for example, im not going to hold a party at my house say regardless of if I earned 10k 20k what I actually earn or 100k. Equally I think most people that will hold a party don't really take any regard of the fine because whilst I won't do it because its the right thing to do you have other people who we won't name that will do silly stuff because they don't take covid seriously.

Yes, punishment doesn't serve very well as a deterrent. But if you are going to punish people when they break the law then the least you can do is punish them fairly.

As a more philosophical point I think fines should cover the negative externalities of an action not serious enough for prison but I don't think arbitrary amounts does a lot. Having the fine or not having the fine will do the most rather than the ammount.

Restorative justice, you say?

[Hurdergaryp]

Boris Johnson is presumably just trolling Huskar at this point.

Come on then Boris you big ole fucking cunt

Sounds like you are threatening the Dear Leader, you terrorist.

[The Nihilistic view]

If we just take covid for example, im not going to hold a party at my house say regardless of if I earned 10k 20k what I actually earn or 100k. Equally I think most people that will hold a party don't really take any regard of the fine because whilst I won't do it because its the right thing to do you have other people who we won't name that will do silly stuff because they don't take covid seriously.

Yes, punishment doesn't serve very well as a deterrent. But if you are going to punish people when they break the law then the least you can do is punish them fairly.

As a more philosophical point I think fines should cover the negative externalities of an action not serious enough for prison but I don't think arbitrary amounts does a lot. Having the fine or not having the fine will do the most rather than the ammount.

Restorative justice, you say?

I don't know how else you might be expected to reform people if you don't get them thinking. People may or may not be surprised by this, I mean I'm not a full on hippy about it but that sort of thing should at least be the first port of call.

[Fartsniffage]

Come on then Boris you big ole fucking cunt

Sounds like you are threatening the Dear Leader, you terrorist.

Huskar is currently standing outside number 10 holding a sign that says "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!".

[Fartsniffage]

Yes, punishment doesn't serve very well as a deterrent. But if you are going to punish people when they break the law then the least you can do is punish them fairly.


Restorative justice, you say?

I don't know how else you might be expected to reform people if you don't get them thinking. People may or may not be surprised by this, I mean I'm not a full on hippy about it but that sort of thing should at least be the first port of call.

Curfew orders are a decent way to do this. You get to go to work but no more fun for you for a couple of years.