UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[Vassenor]

From https://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/national-news/18876904.ex-labour-leader-corbyn-admits-concerns-anti-semitism-not-overstated/

So "this is a problem that needs to be fixed right now, but it's not as big as they want you to think it is" is problematic?

If you don't mind me quoting directly from the man himself: "...but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party...". I'd argue this line, in particular, was the reason he was kicked out of the party and until he apologises for it, I do not feel comfortable with him being a member.

That sounds a lot like a political hit job to me then.

[Andmora]

If you don't mind me quoting directly from the man himself: "...but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party...". I'd argue this line, in particular, was the reason he was kicked out of the party and until he apologises for it, I do not feel comfortable with him being a member.

That sounds a lot like a political hit job to me then.

The EHRC report, which was done by an independent organisation, was a political hit job?

[Vassenor]

That sounds a lot like a political hit job to me then.

The EHRC report, which was done by an independent organisation, was a political hit job?

So what part of the report called for his removal?

And if we're going to talk independence:

EHRC director failed to declare donations to Tory party – and EHRC defends her

Pavita Cooper raised £7,000 for Conservative party and MP. EHRC has repeatedly refused to investigate Tories for anti-Muslim bigotry, while pursuing Labour Party

A huge Newsweek exclusive has revealed that a director of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) failed to declare significant financial support given to a Tory MP and to the Conservative party itself.

When Cooper was appointed by the government she did not declare any political activity, according to a statement by the Cabinet Office – which went on to underline the obligation on all appointees to declare such activity.

Worse still, when presented with the information the EHRC defended Cooper’s failure – telling Newsweek:

A donation was made at an event in 2013 to support a personal friend who was running as an MP. Pavita Cooper has not made a donation to any political party and is not a member of any party.

[The New California Republic]

The government was not transparent about suppliers and services when it scrambled to award £18bn worth of Covid-19 contracts, the public spending watchdog has said.

The National Audit Office (NAO) found firms recommended by MPs, peers and ministers' offices were given priority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54978460

Cronyism/Nepotism again.

[Vassenor]

The government was not transparent about suppliers and services when it scrambled to award £18bn worth of Covid-19 contracts, the public spending watchdog has said.

The National Audit Office (NAO) found firms recommended by MPs, peers and ministers' offices were given priority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54978460

Cronyism/Nepotism again.

Mild shock.

[The New California Republic]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54976553

[Philjia]

Northern Ireland's civil service is facing a serious staff crisis, with 1500 positions left unfilled and existing civil servants needing more sick days than their counterparts in any other country in the UK.

[Andmora]

The EHRC report, which was done by an independent organisation, was a political hit job?

So what part of the report called for his removal?

And if we're going to talk independence:

EHRC director failed to declare donations to Tory party – and EHRC defends her

Pavita Cooper raised £7,000 for Conservative party and MP. EHRC has repeatedly refused to investigate Tories for anti-Muslim bigotry, while pursuing Labour Party

A huge Newsweek exclusive has revealed that a director of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) failed to declare significant financial support given to a Tory MP and to the Conservative party itself.

When Cooper was appointed by the government she did not declare any political activity, according to a statement by the Cabinet Office – which went on to underline the obligation on all appointees to declare such activity.

Worse still, when presented with the information the EHRC defended Cooper’s failure – telling Newsweek:

A donation was made at an event in 2013 to support a personal friend who was running as an MP. Pavita Cooper has not made a donation to any political party and is not a member of any party.

Apologies if I'm mistaken by are you using Skwawkbox as a source? Considering they are libellous, I'm not exactly going to take them seriously.

[Chan Island]

The government was not transparent about suppliers and services when it scrambled to award £18bn worth of Covid-19 contracts, the public spending watchdog has said.

The National Audit Office (NAO) found firms recommended by MPs, peers and ministers' offices were given priority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54978460

Cronyism/Nepotism again.

It's amazing how openly and brazenly corrupt this government has been when it comes to getting PPE and other pandemic or Brexit related business done. It's like they don't even care anymore... and why would they? Not like Labour's in a position to actually beat them right now.

Speaking of which;

The EHRC report, which was done by an independent organisation, was a political hit job?

So what part of the report called for his removal?

And if we're going to talk independence:

EHRC director failed to declare donations to Tory party – and EHRC defends her

Pavita Cooper raised £7,000 for Conservative party and MP. EHRC has repeatedly refused to investigate Tories for anti-Muslim bigotry, while pursuing Labour Party

A huge Newsweek exclusive has revealed that a director of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) failed to declare significant financial support given to a Tory MP and to the Conservative party itself.

When Cooper was appointed by the government she did not declare any political activity, according to a statement by the Cabinet Office – which went on to underline the obligation on all appointees to declare such activity.

Worse still, when presented with the information the EHRC defended Cooper’s failure – telling Newsweek:

A donation was made at an event in 2013 to support a personal friend who was running as an MP. Pavita Cooper has not made a donation to any political party and is not a member of any party.

Please, for the love of mercy, give it a rest. There was anti-semitism in the Labour party, Jeremy Corbyn failed to adequately deal with it. If anything, if the problem had been as massively overstated as you and Jezza say it was, that's an argument that says he should have had an even easier time dealing with the complaints.

But he didn't. Labour's dysfunctional head office failed to deal with anti-semitism complaints properly, and that's a disgrace, and EHRC has aired that dirty laundry for all to see. Bad luck, do it better next time.

Time to move on. We have an openly corrupt Tory government mishandling the most deadly pandemic since WW1 and still determined to send us full throttle into economic and geopolitical suicide. Let's fight those battles instead.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Sorry, not ready to move on yet from the blessed jammy gentleman to milquetoast soundbite apology moid.

People grieve at different speeds.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Starmer isn't going to restore the whip to Corbyn.

BBC have it up now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54986916

[Chan Island]

Starmer isn't going to restore the whip to Corbyn.

BBC have it up now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54986916

So... he's a Labour party member, in parliament, but not a Labour MP?

Is Keir Mace Windu confirmed?

[Vassenor]

The government was not transparent about suppliers and services when it scrambled to award £18bn worth of Covid-19 contracts, the public spending watchdog has said.

The National Audit Office (NAO) found firms recommended by MPs, peers and ministers' offices were given priority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54978460

Cronyism/Nepotism again.

It's amazing how openly and brazenly corrupt this government has been when it comes to getting PPE and other pandemic or Brexit related business done. It's like they don't even care anymore... and why would they? Not like Labour's in a position to actually beat them right now.

Speaking of which;

So what part of the report called for his removal?

And if we're going to talk independence:

EHRC director failed to declare donations to Tory party – and EHRC defends her

Please, for the love of mercy, give it a rest. There was anti-semitism in the Labour party, Jeremy Corbyn failed to adequately deal with it. If anything, if the problem had been as massively overstated as you and Jezza say it was, that's an argument that says he should have had an even easier time dealing with the complaints.

But he didn't. Labour's dysfunctional head office failed to deal with anti-semitism complaints properly, and that's a disgrace, and EHRC has aired that dirty laundry for all to see. Bad luck, do it better next time.

Time to move on. We have an openly corrupt Tory government mishandling the most deadly pandemic since WW1 and still determined to send us full throttle into economic and geopolitical suicide. Let's fight those battles instead.

If he didn't deal with it, why does the data say it went down during his tenure?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Starmer isn't going to restore the whip to Corbyn.

BBC have it up now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54986916

So... he's a Labour party member, in parliament, but not a Labour MP?

Is Keir Mace Windu confirmed?

"This is outrageous, its unfair"
"Take a seat Mr Corbyn"

[The Huskar Social Union]

Northern Ireland's civil service is facing a serious staff crisis, with 1500 positions left unfilled and existing civil servants needing more sick days than their counterparts in any other country in the UK.

Ive honestly thought about trying to get a job in the civil service before in the past. Might look into it again.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Starmer isn't going to restore the whip to Corbyn.

BBC have it up now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54986916

So... he's a Labour party member, in parliament, but not a Labour MP?

Is Keir Mace Windu confirmed?

With Johnson's majority it isn't going to make a difference at the moment. Though it does deny Corbyn's constituents of representation, which is not a good thing.

[The New California Republic]

Northern Ireland's civil service is facing a serious staff crisis, with 1500 positions left unfilled and existing civil servants needing more sick days than their counterparts in any other country in the UK.

Ive honestly thought about trying to get a job in the civil service before in the past. Might look into it again.

But do you think you could bite the bullet and be totally neutral though?

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

So... he's a Labour party member, in parliament, but not a Labour MP?

Is Keir Mace Windu confirmed?

With Johnson's majority it isn't going to make a difference at the moment. Though it does deny Corbyn's constituents of representation, which is not a good thing.

He can still sit in the House, just not as a Labour MP.

[CoraSpia]

So what part of the report called for his removal?

And if we're going to talk independence:

EHRC director failed to declare donations to Tory party – and EHRC defends her

Apologies if I'm mistaken by are you using Skwawkbox as a source? Considering they are libellous, I'm not exactly going to take them seriously.

Tbf she's using Newsweek:
https://www.newsweek.com/equalities-hum ... ty-1513338

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

With Johnson's majority it isn't going to make a difference at the moment. Though it does deny Corbyn's constituents of representation, which is not a good thing.

He can still sit in the House, just not as a Labour MP.

Doh sorry, me having a moment of stupid there.

[Andmora]

Apologies if I'm mistaken by are you using Skwawkbox as a source? Considering they are libellous, I'm not exactly going to take them seriously.

Tbf she's using Newsweek:
https://www.newsweek.com/equalities-hum ... ty-1513338

I got you chief.

[Philjia]

Northern Ireland's civil service is facing a serious staff crisis, with 1500 positions left unfilled and existing civil servants needing more sick days than their counterparts in any other country in the UK.

Ive honestly thought about trying to get a job in the civil service before in the past. Might look into it again.

It doesn't help that the last head of the civil service retired three months ago and the First Minister and Deputy First Minister have yet to agree on a suitable replacement.

[Souseiseki]

https://twitter.com/John2Win/status/1328454575964217344

Nicola - the threat to devolution is not the Prime Minister but the SNP.
The SNP want to scrap devolution by taking Scotland out of the UK.
Independence will finish devolution.

certain scottish unionists are now apparently using "you know who else wants to end devolution... the SNP! because independence will end devolution!" as a serious argument/gotcha response to talks about the tories not so secretly hating devolution and it's just amazing to see play out. the problem with the conservatives or anyone else ending devolution is of course that it would politically neuter scotland and take away its ability to control its own affairs against its will, not that it ends some arbitrary system with which people are deeply in love. it's not about the system itself. it's what the system actually represents and does in practice. but they... don't seem to get it? like actually, they just don't seem to get it.

like do they actually think that people are sitting around loving devolution specifically and will be absolutely awash with outrage if it gets changed to something else regardless of what it is? though then again considering how many of them seem to want to preserve the union based on the fact that it is the union maybe that is actually what they believe?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Ive honestly thought about trying to get a job in the civil service before in the past. Might look into it again.

But do you think you could bite the bullet and be totally neutral though?

If i went 18 months in a bookies without stabbing one of the oh so pleasant customers i had then id say i could give it a shot.

[Ostroeuropa]

With Corbyn re-instated, a word on anti-semitism in the Labour party:

Labour members are in line with population norms for anti-semitic beliefs, the Tories have a higher rate of anti-semitic beliefs. My current theory is that the expression of that anti-semitism is different.

A Jew in the conservative party may hear a lot of "You're a Jew, you must be good with money", but a Jew in the Labour party is going to hear shit about how they're "responsible for dead palestinian kids".

When you also factor in the different perceptions and concepts of racism between Left wingers and Right wingers, the higher level of protest from Jews on the left becomes obvious. (i.e, a conservative Jew is more likely to dismiss and view as "banter" microaggressive comments and stereotypes because of their conservative worldview. They're likely to be critical of the idea that 'bias' constitutes racism compared to explicit open intent and view it in individual terms, whereas those on the left are more likely to view racism in systemic terms.).

This produces a situation where left wing Jews feel more unwelcome in the Labour party than right wing Jews in the conservatives, despite the conservatives overall having more anti-semitic beliefs, because:

1.
Those beliefs are politicized in the Labour party, whereas in the Conservatives there aren't policy debates through which their anti-semitism is filtered and made the subject of focus. Instead it becomes individuals saying remarks to other individuals rather than "The party" debating whether Jews are good with money. There aren't policy debates in the conservative party where one of the sides being advanced is anti-semitic. Even if 2/3rds of the room hold anti-semitic beliefs, they don't try and get Tory policy to conform to it. Meanwhile in the Labour party, those beliefs are politicized and form a factional dispute that leads the Jewish participants feeling that their presence is opposed in political terms, even if this faction is only a minority of participants.

2.
The conservative understanding of racism compared to the left wing understanding of it produces a situation where conservative Jews are less likely to feel targetted by microaggressions, and more likely to attribute them to the individual rather than the forum the individual resides in. Left wingers on the other hand will tend toward cancel culture sentiments and blame the forum for allowing the views to be voiced. This compounds with the previous issue.

A result of this is that "Labour is anti-semitic and has anti-semitic complaints" will translate differently to different sections of the public, with those on the center and right interpreting that as "Labour members openly calling for seeing Jews as subhuman" as opposed to "Labour members engaged in microaggressions and bias and not sufficiently controlling discussion".

Given the reticence of the party to stop debating the issue of Israel-palestine, the politicization factor can't be controlled for. The other element, left wingers having a system view of racism, also can't really be addressed given how it is central to their idpol worldview at this point. The only approach left is to try and get anti-semitic beliefs among Labour members below the norm for the population and potentially far below that norm. This is also not possible without entry tests.

So the scandal will continue in perpetuity. The lefts word games over racism and relying on most normal people thinking that means "Intentionally hostile to a demographic" and indoctrinating groups into buying into that view have come home to roost.

We're also seeing some sections push a "Labour is Islamophobic" line of attack now too, largely utilizing the same phenomena above and which will ultimately cripple the Labour party as this is repeated for each group and their own ridiculous ideas begin to be applied to them.