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UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

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Are you happy with the provisions of the trade deal with the EU?

Completely
12
7%
Somewhat
36
22%
Indifferent
37
23%
Not really
32
20%
Absolutely not
44
27%
 
Total votes : 161

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Cerinda
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Postby Cerinda » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:27 am

Glad to be on the new thread.
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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:50 am

to answer the poll question, the UK will not rejoin the EU because the UK will not exist by 2035. the kingdom of england, however, will probably rejoin at some point.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:00 am

Souseiseki wrote:to answer the poll question, the UK will not rejoin the EU because the UK will not exist by 2035. the kingdom of england, however, will probably rejoin at some point.


Perhaps, perhaps not.
The Union has taken a bad hit now and again from the Tories. But even with my doom and gloom over the possible break up of the UK, I don't think it will fully happen.
I think there will be calls for reforming the UK into a federation before the Union break up.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 am

Celritannia wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:to answer the poll question, the UK will not rejoin the EU because the UK will not exist by 2035. the kingdom of england, however, will probably rejoin at some point.


Perhaps, perhaps not.
The Union has taken a bad hit now and again from the Tories. But even with my doom and gloom over the possible break up of the UK, I don't think it will fully happen.
I think there will be calls for reforming the UK into a federation before the Union break up.


Don't let Celritannia's comments fool you. In the happy hour discussion he revealed he is a Tory.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:08 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Perhaps, perhaps not.
The Union has taken a bad hit now and again from the Tories. But even with my doom and gloom over the possible break up of the UK, I don't think it will fully happen.
I think there will be calls for reforming the UK into a federation before the Union break up.


Don't let Celritannia's comments fool you. In the happy hour discussion he revealed he is a Tory.


I thought you weren't going to tell anyone :(

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Crylante
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Postby Crylante » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:09 am

Under Keir Starmer, things can only get better as the government will prioritise three things: education, education, education. And it shall be tough on crime, yet tough on the causes of crime.

However, against this catastrophic opposition, any other Conservative leader would be 20 points ahead. The evidence is clear that Boris Johnson needs to go.
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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:24 am

Celritannia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
Don't let Celritannia's comments fool you. In the happy hour discussion he revealed he is a Tory.


I thought you weren't going to tell anyone :(


exposed!
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:50 am

Crylante wrote:Under Keir Starmer, things can only get better as the government will prioritise three things: education, education, education. And it shall be tough on crime, yet tough on the causes of crime.

However, against this catastrophic opposition, any other Conservative leader would be 20 points ahead. The evidence is clear that Boris Johnson needs to go.

Keir Starmer isn't Tony Blair?
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Dryicor
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Postby Dryicor » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:54 am

Agarntrop wrote:First.

On a more serious note, polling has now indicated that the Tories and Labour are tied.


Fat chance. Labour are currently in a real mess. Starmer is much better than Corbyn in uniting Labour but the Corbynites in the party aren't rallying around him. They wanted Long-Bailey. That's not who they got.

As for the Tories, people are very satisfied with how they've done on Brexit and the coronavirus in their strongholds and in the Labour areas which went Tory in December.

So it's probably an outlier.




As for the poll, I'd like to think not. The UK has now got a chance to improve itself outside of the EU, and if we ever rejoin then the Maastricht Treaty will dictate we have to adopt the Euro. I, and the whole of Britain, would be extremely sceptical of that.
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Crylante
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Postby Crylante » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:05 am

Agarntrop wrote:
Crylante wrote:Under Keir Starmer, things can only get better as the government will prioritise three things: education, education, education. And it shall be tough on crime, yet tough on the causes of crime.

However, against this catastrophic opposition, any other Conservative leader would be 20 points ahead. The evidence is clear that Boris Johnson needs to go.

Keir Starmer isn't Tony Blair?

I know, it was a tongue-in-cheek post to tag the thread.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:22 am

Dryicor wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:First.

On a more serious note, polling has now indicated that the Tories and Labour are tied.


Fat chance. Labour are currently in a real mess. Starmer is much better than Corbyn in uniting Labour but the Corbynites in the party aren't rallying around him. They wanted Long-Bailey. That's not who they got.

As for the Tories, people are very satisfied with how they've done on Brexit and the coronavirus in their strongholds and in the Labour areas which went Tory in December.

So it's probably an outlier.




As for the poll, I'd like to think not. The UK has now got a chance to improve itself outside of the EU, and if we ever rejoin then the Maastricht Treaty will dictate we have to adopt the Euro. I, and the whole of Britain, would be extremely sceptical of that.



Haha, oh dear.
I don't think you realise just how much of a mess the Tories have made over COVID, Brexit, and the whole exam fiasco.

As for "The UK has now got a chance to improve itself outside of the EU", that's absolute BS.
The UK had a perfect deal with the EU, and we were able to improve ourselves in the EU.
Last edited by Celritannia on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:32 am

Starmer is a placeholder politician. Wherever he enters, excitement leaves. So inconducive to buzz that his presence causes any nearby bees to spontaneously drop from the sky stone dead. The sort of fellow who would be a pointless answer on a BBC dinnertime quiz show even while currently serving in the position.

Truly tragic that this is the best option on the table.
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:33 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Starmer is a placeholder politician. Wherever he enters, excitement leaves. So inconducive to buzz that his presence causes any nearby bees to spontaneously drop from the sky stone dead. The sort of fellow who would be a pointless answer on a BBC dinnertime quiz show even while currently serving in the position.

Truly tragic that this is the best option on the table.


Given what exciting politicians seem to be doing to the world I'd be quite happy with Keir for a bit.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:34 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Starmer is a placeholder politician. Wherever he enters, excitement leaves. So inconducive to buzz that his presence causes any nearby bees to spontaneously drop from the sky stone dead. The sort of fellow who would be a pointless answer on a BBC dinnertime quiz show even while currently serving in the position.

Truly tragic that this is the best option on the table.


Is this a forum post, or a line from a novel? Because it certainly read like one :)

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:42 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Starmer is a placeholder politician. Wherever he enters, excitement leaves. So inconducive to buzz that his presence causes any nearby bees to spontaneously drop from the sky stone dead. The sort of fellow who would be a pointless answer on a BBC dinnertime quiz show even while currently serving in the position.

Truly tragic that this is the best option on the table.


Given what exciting politicians seem to be doing to the world I'd be quite happy with Keir for a bit.


I suppose I'd take panic-buying of cue cards over a run on the pound as a poll outcome.

2020 has made boomers of us all.
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Postby The New California Republic » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:44 am

Dryicor wrote:As for the Tories, people are very satisfied with how they've done on Brexit

>Good job on Brexit.
>Still don't have a trade deal and signs are not looking too good for one being ready before we crash out.
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:46 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Dryicor wrote:As for the Tories, people are very satisfied with how they've done on Brexit

>Good job on Brexit.
>Still don't have a trade deal and signs are not looking too good for one being ready before we crash out.

But people will believe anything if the media tells em too
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:52 am

Dryicor wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:First.

On a more serious note, polling has now indicated that the Tories and Labour are tied.


Fat chance. Labour are currently in a real mess. Starmer is much better than Corbyn in uniting Labour but the Corbynites in the party aren't rallying around him. They wanted Long-Bailey. That's not who they got.

As for the Tories, people are very satisfied with how they've done on Brexit and the coronavirus in their strongholds and in the Labour areas which went Tory in December.

So it's probably an outlier.




As for the poll, I'd like to think not. The UK has now got a chance to improve itself outside of the EU, and if we ever rejoin then the Maastricht Treaty will dictate we have to adopt the Euro. I, and the whole of Britain, would be extremely sceptical of that.


We might also want an electoral reform of the House of Lords. Make it a more democratic institution.

:blush:
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:54 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Dryicor wrote:
Fat chance. Labour are currently in a real mess. Starmer is much better than Corbyn in uniting Labour but the Corbynites in the party aren't rallying around him. They wanted Long-Bailey. That's not who they got.

As for the Tories, people are very satisfied with how they've done on Brexit and the coronavirus in their strongholds and in the Labour areas which went Tory in December.

So it's probably an outlier.




As for the poll, I'd like to think not. The UK has now got a chance to improve itself outside of the EU, and if we ever rejoin then the Maastricht Treaty will dictate we have to adopt the Euro. I, and the whole of Britain, would be extremely sceptical of that.


We might also want an electoral reform of the House of Lords. Make it a more democratic institution.

:blush:


I agree the HoL should be reformed, but I don't think it should be elected either.

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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:57 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Starmer is a placeholder politician. Wherever he enters, excitement leaves. So inconducive to buzz that his presence causes any nearby bees to spontaneously drop from the sky stone dead. The sort of fellow who would be a pointless answer on a BBC dinnertime quiz show even while currently serving in the position.

Truly tragic that this is the best option on the table.

"We are looking for Labour leaders. Kier, wha-

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:58 am

Celritannia wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
We might also want an electoral reform of the House of Lords. Make it a more democratic institution.

:blush:


I agree the HoL should be reformed, but I don't think it should be elected either.


Look no further then either the Bundesrat or the Eerste Kamer. Those are not directly elected by the people.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:02 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
I agree the HoL should be reformed, but I don't think it should be elected either.


Look no further then either the Bundesrat or the Eerste Kamer. Those are not directly elected by the people.


Not even then.
I personally prefer the idea of the HoL being appointed by an independent committee to ensure the members are mostly non-partisan to scrutinise bills from the HoC.

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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:02 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Dryicor wrote:
Fat chance. Labour are currently in a real mess. Starmer is much better than Corbyn in uniting Labour but the Corbynites in the party aren't rallying around him. They wanted Long-Bailey. That's not who they got.

As for the Tories, people are very satisfied with how they've done on Brexit and the coronavirus in their strongholds and in the Labour areas which went Tory in December.

So it's probably an outlier.




As for the poll, I'd like to think not. The UK has now got a chance to improve itself outside of the EU, and if we ever rejoin then the Maastricht Treaty will dictate we have to adopt the Euro. I, and the whole of Britain, would be extremely sceptical of that.


We might also want an electoral reform of the House of Lords. Make it a more democratic institution.

:blush:


It should be a form of popular government of a different flavour and base to that of the Commons, otherwise there is simply no point to it. Throw out all the political appointees, and allow unions, professional organisations, and academics to elect representatives from among their number so that it can return to its former status as a learned house of review with full veto powers restored.
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Postby Hirota » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:04 pm

Souseiseki wrote:https://www.thenational.scot/news/18685878.economist-mark-blyth-im-now-convert-scottish-independence/?ref=ar

In response Wilson wrote that he did not dispute that the deficit – as estimated within the UK model – is higher than that in other small countries which Scotland would wish to emulate under independence.

But he added: “The GERS assessment reflects a structural problem with the UK: it is one of the most unequal countries in the developed world. Every region and nation outside the southeast and east runs a large deficit on this measure.

“This is not cause for celebration but a clear sign that the UK is not working for most of the country.”


whoopsie haha
Whilst it might be true - and I'd like to see evidence supporting this claim rather than just rhetoric - it fails to grasp the point. Every other "region and nation outside of the southeast and east" are not thinking about going it themselves. Of course, this is almost irrelevant. Like I said before, economics shouldn't be the sole reason for the Scots to choose to stay or leave the union. But current levels of tax and spending are unsustainable in a hypothetical independent Scotland - one or both would have to be adjusted, which the Scottish government has the capacity to do, even if it leads to some hard choices.
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Postby CoraSpia » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:16 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
Don't let Celritannia's comments fool you. In the happy hour discussion he revealed he is a Tory.


I thought you weren't going to tell anyone :(

Was this after I had fallen into sleepy times?
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