UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[Neuer Deutsches Reich]

They were the first, not the last. There won’t be anything to return to

[Chan Island]

The Guardian is a tabloid.

Wait, do you not know what a tabloid is? It's literally the size of the newspaper, nothing more.

You're engaging in semantic hand-waving to the extent of surely being deliberately obtuse for the sake of point-scoring.

I find it very difficult to believe that you don't know that 'tabloid' has two meanings in British English.

It has a literal meaning referring to the physical format of the newspaper, and it also has a less literal meaning referring to a style of journalism.

I further find it difficult to believe that you're unaware that until the turn of the century there was a clear association between newspaper format and style of journalism within the UK, and that many people still use 'tabloid' as shorthand to refer to the historical tabloids, excluding the historical broadsheets (eg the Times and the Guardian) that now publish in a tabloid format. Clearly Agarntrop was using 'tabloid' in the latter sense.

I suspect the main point Hirota wanted to convey was a less than favourable opinion of the Guardian, while doing so with a healthy dose of snark.

That's why I ignored the jab anyway.

[Agarntrop]

They were the first, not the last. There won’t be anything to return to

[Agarntrop]

You're engaging in semantic hand-waving to the extent of surely being deliberately obtuse for the sake of point-scoring.

I find it very difficult to believe that you don't know that 'tabloid' has two meanings in British English.

It has a literal meaning referring to the physical format of the newspaper, and it also has a less literal meaning referring to a style of journalism.

I further find it difficult to believe that you're unaware that until the turn of the century there was a clear association between newspaper format and style of journalism within the UK, and that many people still use 'tabloid' as shorthand to refer to the historical tabloids, excluding the historical broadsheets (eg the Times and the Guardian) that now publish in a tabloid format. Clearly Agarntrop was using 'tabloid' in the latter sense.

I suspect the main point Hirota wanted to convey was a less than favourable opinion of the Guardian, while doing so with a healthy dose of snark.

That's why I ignored the jab anyway.

And very pedantic snark at that.....

[Souseiseki]

They were the first, not the last. There won’t be anything to return to

speaking of semantic handwaving to the extent of being deliberately obtuse for the sake of point scoring i want to make some technical argument about how algeria or greenland were really the first to go but then someone would make an even more technical point about whether there is a distinction between the EU/EEC/ECSC

[The Blaatschapen]

They were the first, not the last. There won’t be anything to return to

speaking of semantic handwaving to the extent of being deliberately obtuse for the sake of point scoring i want to make some technical argument about how algeria or greenland were really the first to go but then someone would make an even more technical point about whether there is a distinction between the EU/EEC/ECSC

Now that makes me wonder if Suriname was a part of the EEC until 1975.

[Hirota]

I further find it difficult to believe that you're unaware that until the turn of the century there was a clear association between newspaper format and style of journalism within the UK, and that many people still use 'tabloid' as shorthand to refer to the historical tabloids, excluding the historical broadsheets (eg the Times and the Guardian) that now publish in a tabloid format. Clearly Agarntrop was using 'tabloid' in the latter sense.

Very aware thanks. Alas, as you well know, NSG and cheap snark go hand in hand.

Still, since I can accept when I'm wrong, I do apologise to Agarntrop for the snark. It was a cheap lazy shot and I should do better. I should have focused on the style as Arch points out rather than point scoring and lazy gotchas. Flippancy is an occasional character flaw of mine, and when it misses the mark that's not acceptable.

Mea Culpa

I note however that the important point was ignored - including by you Arch - in the interests of trying to put me in my place.

I believe the argument was that it was going to be largely ignored, which we can see is untrue.

Curious nobody has actually been able to focus on that. Like I noted, NSG and cheap snark go hand in hand. I'm not immune, and apparently neither are other posters...

So, as for the style of journalism associated with tabloids? Like Arch pointed out, there is "a less literal meaning referring to a style of journalism." I'm very comfortable with setting aside the semantics of the size of the newspaper and the colour of their masthead and focusing on their content. To which, on the basis of the attributes as described by wikipedia I am comfortable with my original assertion; The Guardian is a tabloid...at least it's slid that direction since 2011 in it's interest to actually start making money.

Not that the Guardian being a tabloid, or more tabloid has stopped me reading it when it's in front of me. Maybe I just don't stigmatise tabloids (and their readership) as much as other people.

[The New California Republic]

I further find it difficult to believe that you're unaware that until the turn of the century there was a clear association between newspaper format and style of journalism within the UK, and that many people still use 'tabloid' as shorthand to refer to the historical tabloids, excluding the historical broadsheets (eg the Times and the Guardian) that now publish in a tabloid format. Clearly Agarntrop was using 'tabloid' in the latter sense.

Very aware thanks. Alas, as you well know, NSG and cheap snark go hand in hand.

Still, since I can accept when I'm wrong, I do apologise for the Agarntrop for the snark. It was a cheap lazy shot and I should do better. I should have focused on the style as Arch points out rather than point scoring and lazy gotchas. Flippancy is an occasional character flaw of mine, and when it misses the mark that's not acceptable.

Mea Culpa

You forgot the mea máxima culpa.

[Hirota]

You forgot the mea máxima culpa.

If you think it's that grievous you know where to go.

[The New California Republic]

You forgot the mea máxima culpa.

If you think it's that grievous you know where to go.

It was just a joke, a slight ribbing.

[Agarntrop]

I further find it difficult to believe that you're unaware that until the turn of the century there was a clear association between newspaper format and style of journalism within the UK, and that many people still use 'tabloid' as shorthand to refer to the historical tabloids, excluding the historical broadsheets (eg the Times and the Guardian) that now publish in a tabloid format. Clearly Agarntrop was using 'tabloid' in the latter sense.

Very aware thanks. Alas, as you well know, NSG and cheap snark go hand in hand.

Still, since I can accept when I'm wrong, I do apologise for the Agarntrop for the snark. It was a cheap lazy shot and I should do better. I should have focused on the style as Arch points out rather than point scoring and lazy gotchas. Flippancy is an occasional character flaw of mine, and when it misses the mark that's not acceptable.

Mea Culpa

I note however that the important point was ignored - including by you Arch - in the interests of trying to put me in my place.

I believe the argument was that it was going to be largely ignored, which we can see is untrue.

Curious nobody has actually been able to focus on that. Like I noted, NSG and cheap snark go hand in hand. I'm not immune, and apparently neither are other posters...

So, as for the style of journalism associated with tabloids? Like Arch pointed out, there is "a less literal meaning referring to a style of journalism." I'm very comfortable with setting aside the semantics of the size of the newspaper and the colour of their masthead and focusing on their content. To which, on the basis of the attributes as described by wikipedia I am comfortable with my original assertion; The Guardian is a tabloid...at least it's slid that direction since 2011 in it's interest to actually start making money.

Not that the Guardian being a tabloid, or more tabloid has stopped me reading it when it's in front of me. Maybe I just don't stigmatise tabloids (and their readership) as much as other people.

Dont worry its fine, no need to apologise

[Dumb Ideologies]

Very aware thanks. Alas, as you well know, NSG and cheap snark go hand in hand.

Still, since I can accept when I'm wrong, I do apologise for the Agarntrop for the snark. It was a cheap lazy shot and I should do better. I should have focused on the style as Arch points out rather than point scoring and lazy gotchas. Flippancy is an occasional character flaw of mine, and when it misses the mark that's not acceptable.

Mea Culpa

You forgot the mea máxima culpa.

Oh no, I haven't learnt that spell yet. Could it be on the test?

[The New California Republic]

You forgot the mea máxima culpa.

Oh no, I haven't learnt that spell yet. Could it be on the test?

Hermione: "You are saying it wrong! It's 'meAHH máximAHH culpAHH.'"

[The New California Republic]

An interesting article I found:

How the north-east of Scotland became a target for the Stasi at the height of the Cold War.

The Stasi’s motto was “Shield and Sword of the Party” and the secret police attempted to coax Scotland’s academics into spying for them.

Intelligence expert Anthony Glees said Scotland seemed a place “well worth the investment of Stasi interest”. His book The Stasi Files was the first such study to have virtually open access to the documents and, because of a German court ruling in March 2002, will probably be the last.

He said: “It seems to me that to reflect on the interest shown in Scotland and in Scottish universities by the East German Stasi there are two aspects to this, a fairly specific one and a more general one.

“The more general one is that to the political brains in the Stasi, Scotland presented as a country with a potential desire for greater independence from England, whose many grievances might be turned against England, to allow it to become an ally of East Germany.

“At Faslane, Scotland was home to the UK’s nuclear Trident fleet, a key site for the anti-nuclear CND movement which the Stasi were so keen to promote.

“In 2003 we learned that Helen Anderson from Arbroath admitted to have been a Stasi spy for 12 years, motivated by her support for CND goals.”

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/nostalg ... -cold-war/

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Environmental activists target UK printing plants, delaying newspapers

Protesting for action on climate change is all very well and good, but these XR fellas have no respect for press freedom.

[Vassenor]

Environmental activists target UK printing plants, delaying newspapers

Protesting for action on climate change is all very well and good, but these XR fellas have no respect for press freedom.

Don't all those papers have a web prescence?

[Agarntrop]

Environmental activists target UK printing plants, delaying newspapers

Protesting for action on climate change is all very well and good, but these XR fellas have no respect for press freedom.

Murdoch and co are basically a privately-owned government propaganda arm and if anything harm rather than help the cause of a free press. This is an act of resistance against their lies, smears, and government shilling.

[Hirota]

Environmental activists target UK printing plants, delaying newspapers

Protesting for action on climate change is all very well and good, but these XR fellas have no respect for press freedom.

Don't all those papers have a web prescence?

I'd have thought you'd be concerned about the poor and the digital divide. Not to mention the old, and disabled, and those on long term sick. For some people in certain demographics they don't tend to have access to the internet as much as the predominantly middle-class XR lot.

Murdoch and co are basically a privately-owned government propaganda arm and if anything harm rather than help the cause of a free press. This is an act of resistance against their lies, smears, and government shilling.

Ironic that they blocked the timely publication of the so called government propaganda arm publishing an article by one of the most vocal and credible supporters of XR.

As much as I'm uneasy with News Corp and the wider press in general being owned a few billionaires which undermines claims of being "free," hamfisted methods of protest will do more harm than good for XR's cause.

Still, XR did better than the lost lot to try and block newspapers, and with far less protesters than the thousands back in ''86.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Still, XR did better than the lost lot to try and block newspapers, and with far less protesters than the thousands back in ''86.

Thatcher dealt the country a damaging blow when she allowed Murdoch a stranglehold on so much of our media. It gave him the political power to dictate to our governments and blackmail politicians.

[Souseiseki]

when the climate goes to hell and the water wars start we will all be condemned by the future generations like we today condemn past generations and XR will be seen as righteous cassandras. almost any complaints against their methods will be laughed off with a mixture of humour and contempt. if you intend to live long enough to see that day it may be worth mentally preparing yourself for it now. perhaps show some token support so that in the future you can pretend you supported it all along when zeitgeist changes.

[The New California Republic]

The UK's chief Brexit negotiator has said the government is not "scared" of walking away from talks without a trade deal ready to come into force in 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54045653

[Hirota]

The UK's chief Brexit negotiator has said the government is not "scared" of walking away from talks without a trade deal ready to come into force in 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54045653

(Image)

It's brinkmanship. Both sides have been playing the game for ages. Eventually one or both of them will blink.

[The Blaatschapen]

The UK's chief Brexit negotiator has said the government is not "scared" of walking away from talks without a trade deal ready to come into force in 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54045653

(Image)

It's brinkmanship. Both sides have been playing the game for ages. Eventually one or both of them will blink.

So.... shouldn't it be called blinkmanship then?

[The New California Republic]

The UK's chief Brexit negotiator has said the government is not "scared" of walking away from talks without a trade deal ready to come into force in 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54045653

(Image)

It's brinkmanship. Both sides have been playing the game for ages. Eventually one or both of them will blink.

I know what it is, but playing these silly games at this point risks WTO rules actually coming true.

[Vassenor]

The UK's chief Brexit negotiator has said the government is not "scared" of walking away from talks without a trade deal ready to come into force in 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54045653

(Image)

It's brinkmanship. Both sides have been playing the game for ages. Eventually one or both of them will blink.

And it's more likely to be us. What reason does the EU have to blink?