UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/senior-bbc-journalist-used-pseudonym-account-to-back-attacks-on-emma-barnett-after-shoah-speech-1.506092

Demonstrating yet again that very little good comes out of Twatter.

See also Cummings recruit sacked for calling for the police to use live rounds on BLM protestors in a tweet

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... =hvper.com

[Agarntrop]

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/senior-bbc-journalist-used-pseudonym-account-to-back-attacks-on-emma-barnett-after-shoah-speech-1.506092

Demonstrating yet again that very little good comes out of Twatter.

See also Cummings recruit sacked for calling for the police to use live rounds on BLM protestors in a tweet

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... =hvper.com

Lovely.....

[Hirota]

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/senior-bbc-journalist-used-pseudonym-account-to-back-attacks-on-emma-barnett-after-shoah-speech-1.506092

Demonstrating yet again that very little good comes out of Twatter.

See also Cummings recruit sacked for calling for the police to use live rounds on BLM protestors in a tweet

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... =hvper.com

I mean, I don't want people sacked for saying stupid things on social media - although these two example do cross my personal line from freedom of speech to being downright unacceptable.

[Souseiseki]

it is extremely funny that the west believes that china's social credit system which denies employment and education opportunities to those with socially disharmonious views is unjust and evil while also believing that racists/misogynists/homophobes etc. are fair game and should be socially ostracized, kicked out of universities and fired from jobs/prevented from getting hired in the first place without mercy

[Vassenor]

So its distasteful to satirise the government?

Don't be dense. Satirising the government is different from disparaging a whole demographic. That's what i'm talking about.

And who said anything about disparaging demographics?

[The Blaatschapen]

it is extremely funny that the west believes that china's social credit system which denies employment and education opportunities to those with socially disharmonious views is unjust and evil while also believing that racists/misogynists/homophobes etc. are fair game and should be socially ostracized, kicked out of universities and fired from jobs/prevented from getting hired in the first place without mercy

One is the market doing the judging, the other is the government doing so

[Ostroeuropa]

it is extremely funny that the west believes that china's social credit system which denies employment and education opportunities to those with socially disharmonious views is unjust and evil while also believing that racists/misogynists/homophobes etc. are fair game and should be socially ostracized, kicked out of universities and fired from jobs/prevented from getting hired in the first place without mercy

One is the market doing the judging, the other is the government doing so

The free market fairy has nothing to do with it. It's about whether a bunch of unelected bureaucrats and media figures decide to make you their next target. So it's really not at all dissimilar. The closest you have to the market deciding it is the media bit, since the lobbyists are often from quangos forcefed public funding to "fix issues" but use it instead to spread ideology and propaganda and maintain their position in a power structure of the state while denying being part of it. As for whether our current media set up is a "free" market, that depends on how "free" you think British capitalism is.

[The New California Republic]

As for whether our current media set up is a "free" market, that depends on how "free" you think British capitalism is.

There was an article last year saying that the UK has a particularly extreme form of capitalism, so take from that what you will.

[Ostroeuropa]

As for whether our current media set up is a "free" market, that depends on how "free" you think British capitalism is.

There was an article last year saying that the UK has a particularly extreme form of capitalism, so take from that what you will.

Right.

So it comes down to whether you think it's "different" because the UK does this to people who piss off our feudalistic overlords while China does it to people who piss off people who worked their way through a political party. It might be different, but not meaningfully.

There is however a meaningful difference to be noted, in that the Chinese public broadly supports the regime and its ideology, but the fringe ideology pushed by our rulers on this topic is extremely unpopular and unhinged from how ordinary people think.

There is a substantial difference between "Don't say or discuss things that almost nobody says anyway or we'll come after you" and "You must all stop saying what you're all thinking, or we'll come after you.".

The pervasive *threat* of the British system here is far more tangible for far more people because it is so wildly out of step with their views.

And, even beyond the absolute principle of free speech and so on, there is a difference in that if we're going to have a conversation about whether some political speech and positions should result in these kind of repercussions, in China, that conversation and consensus has been reached in a manner that their society agrees with. Here, it is being imposed on us by a bunch of extremists who the public adamantly rejects and despises. That's meaningful in terms of it being actually less representative and more odious in the British case, especially as this can only happen due to the extreme imbalance of power in favor of those extremists who then gaslight the public by pretending to be opposed to unjust power dynamics, while ignoring that the consensus is that *the ones that uphold them are the unjust ones*.

China meanwhile is more "Open" about its intentions and has more support for them; If you threaten the state they will punish you.

They don't one moment say they welcome constructive critique and then act completely differerently, all while also adding you to a list of enemies if you dare note this about them.

All of that means that the british system is more psychologically harmful and demoralizing both in how it works, and in terms of how it impacts more of the public.

Nor does the chinese system entail demanding you place yourself in an inferior social position to your fellow citizens to be safe. They have yet to explicitly say "You must support Han Supremacy if you want a better social credit score". Meanwhile, the social justice shite the UK peddles does do that.

I think Sous's comparison is a very apt one.

[State of Turelisa]

it is extremely funny that the west believes that china's social credit system which denies employment and education opportunities to those with socially disharmonious views is unjust and evil while also believing that racists/misogynists/homophobes etc. are fair game and should be socially ostracized, kicked out of universities and fired from jobs/prevented from getting hired in the first place without mercy

Correct. It's one instance of the hypocrisy of the Left.

[Vassenor]

it is extremely funny that the west believes that china's social credit system which denies employment and education opportunities to those with socially disharmonious views is unjust and evil while also believing that racists/misogynists/homophobes etc. are fair game and should be socially ostracized, kicked out of universities and fired from jobs/prevented from getting hired in the first place without mercy

Correct. It's one instance of the hypocrisy of the Left.

Remember, picking who you want to associate with is totalitarian.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Correct. It's one instance of the hypocrisy of the Left.

Remember, picking who you want to associate with is totalitarian.

If it were only a personal matter of individual decisions taking place in a world where every man were an island this would perhaps be a legitimate riposte. However, clearly there are group dynamics at play, cancel culture is not simply individuals taking decisions rather it is a system of group norms and attitudes. You have people attempting to weaponise offence and create bandwagons encouraging/demanding others join with the explicit end goal of excluding an individual or group from society for having different beliefs to theirs. When movements, whether with a formal membership or decentralised, collaboratively seek to have opponents removed and opposing views deleted from from the public discourse then they are drawing from the totalitarian playbook and are at the very least authoritarian.

You have been pulled up on this many times before, and yet you show up like clockwork whenever these issues are discussed to deliver these fautuous one-liners. To have "missed" previous replies to this line of argument multiple times stretches credulity. To have not developed your argument in any way towards a considered response that addresses both the individual and collective elements of behaviour speaks to either laziness or incapability.

[The New California Republic]

Tory MP Chloe Smith rejects husband's Covid 'mental illness' claim.

Minister Chloe Smith has distanced herself from her husband's comments on Covid-19, which he described as "most likely an outbreak of mental illness".

Sandy McFadzean also called for an end to social distancing, track and trace and the use of face coverings.

Ms Smith, Conservative MP for Norwich North, said she took a "different view" but felt everyone was "entitled to their own" opinion.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54017134

[Souseiseki]

Correct. It's one instance of the hypocrisy of the Left.

Remember, picking who you want to associate with is totalitarian.

ironically "voluntary association" is a traditional calling card of the libertarian right and is regularly criticized by the left for naturally leading to authoritarian as dominant social groups use it to walk over minority groups under the guise of "freedom". so, unironically, yes, a system of social control based ostensibly on free association can be aggressively totalitarian.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

With the R rate spiking in Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon warning it could be as high as 1.4, I'm guessing a second wave is on its way.

[Fartsniffage]

With the R rate spiking in Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon warning it could be as high as 1.4, I'm guessing a second wave is on its way.

Very low case numbers mean that small clusters can lead to wild fluctuations in R number. I wouldn't worry too much just yet.

[The New California Republic]

With the R rate spiking in Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon warning it could be as high as 1.4, I'm guessing a second wave is on its way.

The recent major clusters have been in the Glasgow environs and Aberdeen. They are fairly localised, and I hope they stay that way.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Critical gaps in Northern Ireland Brexit plan, leaked memo warns

Key details of the plan for Northern Ireland once Brexit is completed are missing and must be addressed immediately, according to a leaked government memo.

The warning is set out in a briefing paper which states that attempts to get the UK's borders ready for trade after January 1 are "unmanageable".

It highlights "critical gaps" in new IT systems and asks hauliers and other industry groups for help to avoid chaos when the Brexit transition period expires in just over 100 days' time.

Circulated by the Cabinet Office, it lists 13 key risks to be flagged up to ministers, including a lack of back-up planning and inadequate time to prepare.

The memo, obtained by Bloomberg, details specific warnings around Northern Ireland.

Under the Northern Ireland Protocol, the region will continue to follow EU customs rules, even though it remains part of UK customs territory.

From January 1, goods entering here from Great Britain will need customs declarations.

The memo states: "The lack of an operating model for the Northern Ireland Protocol, coupled with missing information on the location of inland checking points and even which systems particular ports will be using, needs to be addressed now."

According to the note, a wider UK border crisis looms regardless of whether a trade deal is secured because even an agreement will end the current free flow of goods with the EU.

Logistics UK, which represents freight groups, accused the Government of ignoring its repeated warnings that a new 'smart freight' system needed by all exporters to the EU would not be ready in time.

Ministers have already admitted the likelihood of to up to 10 months of border disruption, with emergency traffic control measures in Kent to last until "the end of October 2021".

Now the leaked document, penned by an official in the Border and Protocol Delivery Group, has laid bare the problems ahead when the UK leaves the single market and customs union.

=CONTINUES=

WHAT? FUCKING REALLY? WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING TED!

[The Blaatschapen]

Critical gaps in Northern Ireland Brexit plan, leaked memo warns

Key details of the plan for Northern Ireland once Brexit is completed are missing and must be addressed immediately, according to a leaked government memo.

The warning is set out in a briefing paper which states that attempts to get the UK's borders ready for trade after January 1 are "unmanageable".

It highlights "critical gaps" in new IT systems and asks hauliers and other industry groups for help to avoid chaos when the Brexit transition period expires in just over 100 days' time.

Circulated by the Cabinet Office, it lists 13 key risks to be flagged up to ministers, including a lack of back-up planning and inadequate time to prepare.

The memo, obtained by Bloomberg, details specific warnings around Northern Ireland.

Under the Northern Ireland Protocol, the region will continue to follow EU customs rules, even though it remains part of UK customs territory.

From January 1, goods entering here from Great Britain will need customs declarations.

The memo states: "The lack of an operating model for the Northern Ireland Protocol, coupled with missing information on the location of inland checking points and even which systems particular ports will be using, needs to be addressed now."

According to the note, a wider UK border crisis looms regardless of whether a trade deal is secured because even an agreement will end the current free flow of goods with the EU.

Logistics UK, which represents freight groups, accused the Government of ignoring its repeated warnings that a new 'smart freight' system needed by all exporters to the EU would not be ready in time.

Ministers have already admitted the likelihood of to up to 10 months of border disruption, with emergency traffic control measures in Kent to last until "the end of October 2021".

Now the leaked document, penned by an official in the Border and Protocol Delivery Group, has laid bare the problems ahead when the UK leaves the single market and customs union.

=CONTINUES=

WHAT? FUCKING REALLY? WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING TED!

*raises hoove*

[The Huskar Social Union]

Keir Starmer Demands Boris Johnson Blocks Claire Fox's Peerage After IRA Row


comment stolen from reddit:

"Boris Johnson rewards terrorist sympathiser with peerage" is a headline you will not find on a single tabloid paper, even though it really should be on all of them if they cared one ounce about journalistic integrity.

[Souseiseki]

Keir Starmer Demands Boris Johnson Blocks Claire Fox's Peerage After IRA Row


comment stolen from reddit:

"Boris Johnson rewards terrorist sympathiser with peerage" is a headline you will not find on a single tabloid paper, even though it really should be on all of them if they cared one ounce about journalistic integrity.

and of course the classic imagine if labour did this lol

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

So is HS2 justified now to stimulate the economy, like building the Empire State and the Hoover Dam? I think it is, but they should also do the other railway infrastructure stuff that is needed. If the government is borrowing money to kickstart the ecomomy they might as well do something useful with it.

[Hirota]

Keir Starmer Demands Boris Johnson Blocks Claire Fox's Peerage After IRA Row


comment stolen from reddit:

and of course the classic imagine if labour did this lol

If you want to go down this line of nonsense comparisons then fine - I'd say trying to get an alleged terrorist sympathiser who "repeatedly dodged condemning the IRA’s campaign of violence unequivocally" to become PM - is probably worse than adding them to the house of lords. Just sayin'

Of course, the tabloids did point out Corbyn's reticence in doing so, so Husk is quite right to complain about the tabloids apparently ignoring Fox's - even though that is untrue. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)


Still, it's a little odd to see the Tories nominating ex Revolutionary Communist Party members to the Lords. Maybe his advisor (Munira Mirza, also a former Revolutionary Communist Party member) suggested it? Alas, given how Fox has been on record campaigning against "cancel culture" of late (to a point past where I'd agree), and given how the Tories have talked about it too, I rather suspect they expected - maybe even welcomed - some outrage over it.

So is HS2 justified now to stimulate the economy, like building the Empire State and the Hoover Dam? I think it is, but they should also do the other railway infrastructure stuff that is needed. If the government is borrowing money to kickstart the ecomomy they might as well do something useful with it.

Especially given how infrastructure like public transport and roads are less used than the last few years at the moment.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Of course, the tabloids did point out Corbyn's reticence in doing so, so Husk is quite right to complain about the tabloids apparently ignoring Fox's - even though that is untrue. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

It feels sooooooo good to see those headlines

[Philjia]

So on Wednesday the government launched their kickstart jobs scheme, which provides subsidised work placements for young people. However, there's a slight flaw in it, in that firms with fewer than 30 employees have to apply for funding through an intermediary such as a larger business or chamber of commerce, but none have actually been approved as valid intermediaries, so small businesses can't currently access the funding. Oops.
https://www.ft.com/content/b11c2ca9-91a ... d4dd0d66f9