UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[Philjia]

I think we should call for an investigation into the finances of the party, £6500 is a lot of money to lose on deposits.

I dont think that party has ever won a deposit back lol

Nope. Think they have been elected to some minor offices like parish councils here and there.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Ill make one final comment about Loyalism tonight before i head off. They would be in a much better place i think if David Ervine didnt die and they had more like him. For those of you unfamiliar with him, he was a member of the UVF who was put in prison during the Troubles for possession of bomb making equipment. Whilst in prison he moved towards a position of a more peaceful political approach for Loyalism and became involved with the Progressive Unionist party which is basically the political wing of the UVF.

He was instrumental in getting Loyalists to commit to a ceasefire in 1994 and was regarded as a very progressive Unionist Politician, easily one of the most progressive they have ever had and was a supporter of the GFA and one of the most vocal unionists in support of it. He abstained against DUP attempts to get SF excluded from holding offices in the early 2000s and was the only Unionist to vote against a motion condemning Easter lilies commemorating the 1916 rising at parliament buildings in 2001 and even supported SF members making their speeches in Irish in Stormont.

He died though in 2007 after suffering some heart attacks and a brain haemorrhage. When he did die he received praise from across the political spectrum, including from Irish republicans like Gerry Adams. Unfortunately he didn't seem to have been able to build another generation of progressive loyalists behind him and the PUP have become a footnote that achieved absolutely nothing worthwhile in any election. Its just the mouthpiece of the UVF and nothing more.

My mum and dad always spoke highly of him and i come from a very Nationalist family as you all know. His sister in law Linda is also a huge supporter of the Irish Language and helped establish a project getting Protestants in East Belfast to learn Irish.

Edit: I think with more like him they could have tried to bring some actual working class loyalist representation and maybe get them into a better state than they are now. But unfortunately we didnt get that timeline and there is no guarantee it would have worked.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I dont think that party has ever won a deposit back lol

Nope. Think they have been elected to some minor offices like parish councils here and there.

Imagine if they actually won an MP seat in an election.

I literally have no idea what my reaction would be.

[The Free Joy State]

Nope. Think they have been elected to some minor offices like parish councils here and there.

Imagine if they actually won an MP seat in an election.

I literally have no idea what my reaction would be.

I've no idea what their reaction would be.

That said, there have been years when I'd have rather taken a chance on them than on the choices for the leading parties. They don't stand in my borough, sadly.

[The Huskar Social Union]

PM will allow second referendum if SNP wins, says Sturgeon


Yeahh.... wouldnt get my hopes up Nicola.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I would love to see David Cameron end up in prison.

[The New California Republic]

PM will allow second referendum if SNP wins, says Sturgeon


Yeahh.... wouldnt get my hopes up Nicola.

I mean...he has been quite explicit on very recent previous occasions that he wouldn't do such a thing, so not sure what news that she has been reading...

[Philjia]

PM will allow second referendum if SNP wins, says Sturgeon


Yeahh.... wouldnt get my hopes up Nicola.

I mean...he has been quite explicit on very recent previous occasions that he wouldn't do such a thing, so not sure what news that she has been reading...

I think the best Johnson can hope for is to kick this can down the road until he's not Prime Minister anymore. If the Tories ever lose an election they'll be alright because then there'll have to be a Lab/SNP pact in which case independence will be Labour's problem. If that doesn't happen the independence referendum will happen under a Tory PM under massive pressure to let it happen.

Latest poll from YouGov:
Con: 41%
Lab: 34%
Lib: 6%
Green: 6%
SNP: 6%
Reform: 3%

Conservatives have the advantage, Labour going nowhere fast without some kind of electoral pact, same as usual.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

PM will allow second referendum if SNP wins, says Sturgeon


Yeahh.... wouldnt get my hopes up Nicola.

I mean...he has been quite explicit on very recent previous occasions that he wouldn't do such a thing, so not sure what news that she has been reading...

Given his history of lying though, you can't believe a word he says.

[Vassenor]

I mean...he has been quite explicit on very recent previous occasions that he wouldn't do such a thing, so not sure what news that she has been reading...

I think the best Johnson can hope for is to kick this can down the road until he's not Prime Minister anymore. If the Tories ever lose an election they'll be alright because then there'll have to be a Lab/SNP pact in which case independence will be Labour's problem. If that doesn't happen the independence referendum will happen under a Tory PM under massive pressure to let it happen.

Latest poll from YouGov:
Con: 41%
Lab: 34%
Lib: 6%
Green: 6%
SNP: 6%
Reform: 3%

Conservatives have the advantage, Labour going nowhere fast without some kind of electoral pact, same as usual.

Clearly this continued slump is all Jezza's fault despite his not being in any position to influence the party for almost a year.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

It will be interesting to see how well the polling matches the results of the forthcoming local elections. It would be unusual for a party in power to do well in local elections in the middle of their term in office.

I'm slightly inclined to believe people lying to pollsters has become more common.

[Philjia]

I think the best Johnson can hope for is to kick this can down the road until he's not Prime Minister anymore. If the Tories ever lose an election they'll be alright because then there'll have to be a Lab/SNP pact in which case independence will be Labour's problem. If that doesn't happen the independence referendum will happen under a Tory PM under massive pressure to let it happen.

Latest poll from YouGov:
Con: 41%
Lab: 34%
Lib: 6%
Green: 6%
SNP: 6%
Reform: 3%

Conservatives have the advantage, Labour going nowhere fast without some kind of electoral pact, same as usual.

Clearly this continued slump is all Jezza's fault despite his not being in any position to influence the party for almost a year.

You can blame a lot of people.
You can blame the British public for offering far more support to the Tories.
You can blame the Tories for turning the Scots onto the idea of independence by being so persistently shit.
You can blame the Scots for putting independence ahead of other concerns.
You can blame Labour for being complacent and losing votes to the Tories and Greens.
You can blame the Greens for not entering into a Faustian pact with Labour like the Co-operative Party.
You can blame Jeremy Corbyn for being the spark that led to a lot of people realising they didn't have to support Labour and losing an unlosable election.
You can blame the press for being out for Corbyn's blood.
You can blame Starmer for being wet.
You can blame the Labour right for not supporting Corbyn.
You can blame the Labour left for not supporting Starmer.
You can blame FPTP for being a mockery of representative democracy.

Doesn't matter whose fault it is at the end of the day, what matters is not having a repeat of 2017 or 2019.

[Odreria]

Clearly this continued slump is all Jezza's fault despite his not being in any position to influence the party for almost a year.

You can blame a lot of people.
You can blame the British public for offering far more support to the Tories.
You can blame the Tories for turning the Scots onto the idea of independence by being so persistently shit.
You can blame the Scots for putting independence ahead of other concerns.
You can blame Labour for being complacent and losing votes to the Tories and Greens.
You can blame the Greens for not entering into a Faustian pact with Labour like the Co-operative Party.
You can blame Jeremy Corbyn for being the spark that led to a lot of people realising they didn't have to support Labour and losing an unlosable election.
You can blame the press for being out for Corbyn's blood.
You can blame Starmer for being wet.
You can blame the Labour right for not supporting Corbyn.
You can blame the Labour left for not supporting Starmer.
You can blame FPTP for being a mockery of representative democracy.

Doesn't matter whose fault it is at the end of the day, what matters is not having a repeat of 2017 or 2019.

Ah yes, Labour should emulate 2010 and 2015 instead. Such sensible moderate wisdom.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I remember when i used to be hopeful about labour.


No idea whenever thats coming back.

[The New California Republic]

The government is expected to announce an investigation into David Cameron's efforts to lobby ministers on behalf of finance firm Greensill Capital.

The former prime minister has been criticised for contacting ministers via text on behalf of the company, which collapsed in March.

The probe is likely to be independent, carried out on behalf of the Cabinet Office, the BBC understands.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56720141

[Ifreann]

The government is expected to announce an investigation into David Cameron's efforts to lobby ministers on behalf of finance firm Greensill Capital.

The former prime minister has been criticised for contacting ministers via text on behalf of the company, which collapsed in March.

The probe is likely to be independent, carried out on behalf of the Cabinet Office, the BBC understands.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56720141

I'm sure that the Tories will arrange for a very thorough probe into their mate Dave.

[Odreria]

The government is expected to announce an investigation into David Cameron's efforts to lobby ministers on behalf of finance firm Greensill Capital.

The former prime minister has been criticised for contacting ministers via text on behalf of the company, which collapsed in March.

The probe is likely to be independent, carried out on behalf of the Cabinet Office, the BBC understands.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56720141

Dodgy Dave is at it again.

[Philjia]

You can blame a lot of people.
You can blame the British public for offering far more support to the Tories.
You can blame the Tories for turning the Scots onto the idea of independence by being so persistently shit.
You can blame the Scots for putting independence ahead of other concerns.
You can blame Labour for being complacent and losing votes to the Tories and Greens.
You can blame the Greens for not entering into a Faustian pact with Labour like the Co-operative Party.
You can blame Jeremy Corbyn for being the spark that led to a lot of people realising they didn't have to support Labour and losing an unlosable election.
You can blame the press for being out for Corbyn's blood.
You can blame Starmer for being wet.
You can blame the Labour right for not supporting Corbyn.
You can blame the Labour left for not supporting Starmer.
You can blame FPTP for being a mockery of representative democracy.

Doesn't matter whose fault it is at the end of the day, what matters is not having a repeat of 2017 or 2019.

Ah yes, Labour should emulate 2010 and 2015 instead. Such sensible moderate wisdom.

Honourable suicide, self destruction on the altar of a broad coalition and electoral reform, wasn't a necessity back then as it is now. The time for Labour has passed. It has lost it's monopoly over progressivism and has lost the surety of it's own internal unity. The complex internal bureaucracy that once served to hold Labour together now tears it apart as it completely obfuscates who within the party has legitimacy.

[Vassenor]

The government is expected to announce an investigation into David Cameron's efforts to lobby ministers on behalf of finance firm Greensill Capital.

The former prime minister has been criticised for contacting ministers via text on behalf of the company, which collapsed in March.

The probe is likely to be independent, carried out on behalf of the Cabinet Office, the BBC understands.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56720141

The government has investigated the government and determined that the government did nothing wrong.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

It's ridiculously overdramatic to be writing an electoral obituary for the Labour Party at the present time.

[The Huskar Social Union]

It's ridiculously overdramatic to be writing an electoral obituary for the Labour Party at the present time.

But Smithee, Drama is fun!

[Ifreann]

It's ridiculously overdramatic to be writing an electoral obituary for the Labour Party at the present time.

If recent events in Britain have taught us anything, it's that it's best practice to write the obituary early and update it often.

[The Nihilistic view]

Clearly this continued slump is all Jezza's fault despite his not being in any position to influence the party for almost a year.

You can blame a lot of people.
You can blame the British public for offering far more support to the Tories.
You can blame the Tories for turning the Scots onto the idea of independence by being so persistently shit.
You can blame the Scots for putting independence ahead of other concerns.
You can blame Labour for being complacent and losing votes to the Tories and Greens.
You can blame the Greens for not entering into a Faustian pact with Labour like the Co-operative Party.
You can blame Jeremy Corbyn for being the spark that led to a lot of people realising they didn't have to support Labour and losing an unlosable election.
You can blame the press for being out for Corbyn's blood.
You can blame Starmer for being wet.
You can blame the Labour right for not supporting Corbyn.
You can blame the Labour left for not supporting Starmer.
You can blame FPTP for being a mockery of representative democracy.

Doesn't matter whose fault it is at the end of the day, what matters is not having a repeat of 2017 or 2019.

How exactly are people to blame for voting how they want?

I hear this alot, along with things like "The people need us". We'll yeah no they disagree with you about needing you. That's never something to blame voters about.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I actually quite liked that interview Starmer did with Unilad i linked to the other day. Seemed a lot more natural and relaxed than a bunch of the other speeches and talks ive seen him do.

Just gona have to wait and see honestly how Labour does over the next few years. Ive become more meh towards the man over the last few months but need to see how the locals and by elections go.

[Philjia]

You can blame a lot of people.
You can blame the British public for offering far more support to the Tories.
You can blame the Tories for turning the Scots onto the idea of independence by being so persistently shit.
You can blame the Scots for putting independence ahead of other concerns.
You can blame Labour for being complacent and losing votes to the Tories and Greens.
You can blame the Greens for not entering into a Faustian pact with Labour like the Co-operative Party.
You can blame Jeremy Corbyn for being the spark that led to a lot of people realising they didn't have to support Labour and losing an unlosable election.
You can blame the press for being out for Corbyn's blood.
You can blame Starmer for being wet.
You can blame the Labour right for not supporting Corbyn.
You can blame the Labour left for not supporting Starmer.
You can blame FPTP for being a mockery of representative democracy.

Doesn't matter whose fault it is at the end of the day, what matters is not having a repeat of 2017 or 2019.

How exactly are people to blame for voting how they want?

I hear this alot, along with things like "The people need us". We'll yeah no they disagree with you about needing you. That's never something to blame voters about.

I don't agree with all those excuses.