UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[Atheris]

TIL horses and sailors are interchangeable.

What shall we do with the drunken horsey?
What shall we do with the drunken horsey?
What shall we do with the drunken horsey, early in the morning!

Neigh-hay and up she rises,
Neigh-hay and up she rises,
Neigh-hay and up she rises,
Ear-lie in the morning!

[The Free Joy State]

...because?

It's been shown that the folk behind NIP are the same ones that were behind the whole Northumbrian independence thing, so that's their agenda, but they've disguised it under a new name, so yes it's a scam.

In addition, having failed to file the correct papers, they're not a legal party, so their one standing candidate will be forced to stand as an independent.

It is clearly being run by people with no idea of what they are doing, interested only in reaping potential "candidates" and blaming others when they fail to actually deliver a legal party for them to stand in.

They are a scam party -- a legally non-existent entity hiding their true, unachievable aim, dressed up in caricatures of whippets and capitalising on the North-South divide and the division in the Labour Party, selling dreams that will never come true (should anyone vote for them).

At best, it is political hucksterism.

[Hirota]

It's been shown that the folk behind NIP are the same ones that were behind the whole Northumbrian independence thing, so that's their agenda, but they've disguised it under a new name, so yes it's a scam.

In addition, having failed to file the correct papers, they're not a legal party, so their one standing candidate will be forced to stand as an independent.

It is clearly being run by people with no idea of what they are doing, interested only in reaping potential "candidates" and blaming others when they fail to actually deliver a legal party for them to stand in.

They are a scam party -- a legally non-existent entity hiding their true, unachievable aim, dressed up in caricatures of whippets and capitalising on the North-South divide and the division in the Labour Party, selling dreams that will never come true (should anyone vote for them).

At best, it is political hucksterism.

I wouldn't write them off entirely. Like you said, they do seem to be benefitting from the divisions in the Labour Party - their candidate is a former Corbynista after all.

Still, remains to be seen if they can come out of this as a legitimate force like UKIP or whittle away into nothing like the TIGgers

[Souseiseki]

I didn't say that UK police officers should enforce different countries speed limits. Are you even reading my post or not even bothering?

Your post was extremely thin on the whole content aspect, so why you even mentioned speed limits in other countries was odd, hence why I was pointing out why it isn't really relevant to this case.

The problem here is that a police officer lost his job because he went just 10mph over what he would get caught out by, and if it was a normal civilian, it would just be a minor fine. Moreover, the press and police report proclaim this to be a tragedy, whereas the real tragedy is that he wouldn't even be fined across the vast majority of Europe for travelling at 89mph, and in most relevant large countries, he would be entirely within the speed limit.

Again though who gives a shit what the speed limit is in other countries? It's not relevant. So again the fact you are treating it as if it's some really important point in relation to this case is just odd.

it's never not worth it to remind people that the UK is a weird little no fun neighbour sticking their head in the window to make sure you're not doing anything naughty gotta do what the party says hell hole. "in the vast majority of europe if not all of europe this would be legal but in the UK..." is a consistent pattern and it should always, always, be pointed out to make sure that people do not think it's normal.

[Dakini]

This is different, because reasons.

Oh right, I forgot that the virus only infects people when the government says it can, hence why all those rule-breaking VE Day parties were allowed.

Indeed. Mourning a member of the Royal Family is totally not going to transmit covid the way mourning a woman murdered by a police officer would.

[The Nihilistic view]

Your post was extremely thin on the whole content aspect, so why you even mentioned speed limits in other countries was odd, hence why I was pointing out why it isn't really relevant to this case.


Again though who gives a shit what the speed limit is in other countries? It's not relevant. So again the fact you are treating it as if it's some really important point in relation to this case is just odd.

it's never not worth it to remind people that the UK is a weird little no fun neighbour sticking their head in the window to make sure you're not doing anything naughty gotta do what the party says hell hole. "in the vast majority of europe if not all of europe this would be legal but in the UK..." is a consistent pattern and it should always, always, be pointed out to make sure that people do not think it's normal.

It's probably worth reminding you about the EU's push for built in speed limiters and breathalysers within new cars in the next few years if you want to talk about sticking heads through Windows to monitor what you are doing as a private citizen.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Boris Johnson refuses calls for summit on violence in Northern Ireland

Irish government suggests talks after eight nights in which police have been attacked and cars torched.

Boris Johnson’s government is resisting growing calls to hold a special crisis summit with Dublin to address rising tensions in Northern Ireland – amid growing international anxiety about a return to sectarian violence.

The Observer has been told by senior sources that suggestions from Dublin to London that the crisis requires a high-level intergovernmental conference to help stabilise the situation have met with no enthusiasm on the British side.

It is understood that Dublin strongly believes recent tensions and several nights of violence, as well as the breakdown of relations between Northern Irish parties, require the two governments to meet as a matter of urgency.

“The view in Dublin is that the political leadership required to stabilise the situation is not going to come from within Northern Ireland right now. It needs to come from the two governments. Dublin believes that such a meeting would provide a very visible way to reassure people that the centre is going to hold,” said a source.

Dublin wants a meeting to be held in Northern Ireland between the British secretary of state for Northern Ireland, Brandon Lewis, and the Irish foreign minister, Simon Coveney, to address a series of issues that have reignited tensions, including trade and border problems caused by the Brexit deal struck by Boris Johnson.

It is understood that calls for a special meeting, as provided for under the Good Friday agreement, were relayed through diplomatic channels late last week but were turned down by London.

“There is a fear of upsetting unionists, a worry that this would be seen as Dublin interfering too much in the affairs of Northern Ireland,” said an insider.

The Irish taoiseach, Micheál Martin, said yesterday that political leaders must not allow Northern Ireland to “spiral back to that dark place of sectarian murders and political discord” after the region was marred by another night of disorder on Friday.

On the anniversary of the Good Friday agreement 23 years ago, the taoiseach said there was “a particular onus on those of us who currently hold the responsibility of political leadership to step forward and play our part and ensure that this cannot happen”.

=CONTINUES=

So it seems the Republic has been wanting to hold a summit to discuss the recent violence and tensions in Northern Ireland amid concerns it could return to large scale sectarian violence but the British Government has been reluctant to do so and has turned it down.


edit: And for anyone that says Ireland should keep out of it, Ireland is literally a co-guarantee of the GFA and involved in North-South Bodies regarding Northern Ireland so it very much is their business.

[The Nihilistic view]

I can understand how it would help if it was Republican led violence but I tend to agree with the view that it might just further rile up Loyalists leading to a worse situation.

[Dakini]

So it seems the Republic has been wanting to hold a summit to discuss the recent violence and tensions in Northern Ireland amid concerns it could return to large scale sectarian violence but the British Government has been reluctant to do so and has turned it down.


edit: And for anyone that says Ireland should keep out of it, Ireland is literally a co-guarantee of the GFA and involved in North-South Bodies regarding Northern Ireland so it very much is their business.

I'm pretty sure that the government of the Republic of Ireland cares more about Northern Ireland than the UK government does. The UK government very obviously only cares about parts of England.

[Souseiseki]

it's never not worth it to remind people that the UK is a weird little no fun neighbour sticking their head in the window to make sure you're not doing anything naughty gotta do what the party says hell hole. "in the vast majority of europe if not all of europe this would be legal but in the UK..." is a consistent pattern and it should always, always, be pointed out to make sure that people do not think it's normal.

It's probably worth reminding you about the EU's push for built in speed limiters and breathalysers within new cars in the next few years if you want to talk about sticking heads through Windows to monitor what you are doing as a private citizen.

fair, liberty in europe is dead, but the UK tends to be slightly worse

[Vassenor]

it's never not worth it to remind people that the UK is a weird little no fun neighbour sticking their head in the window to make sure you're not doing anything naughty gotta do what the party says hell hole. "in the vast majority of europe if not all of europe this would be legal but in the UK..." is a consistent pattern and it should always, always, be pointed out to make sure that people do not think it's normal.

It's probably worth reminding you about the EU's push for built in speed limiters and breathalysers within new cars in the next few years if you want to talk about sticking heads through Windows to monitor what you are doing as a private citizen.

Oh hey, more things we could've stopped from happening but chose to run off and hide under the bed instead.

[Souseiseki]

I can understand how it would help if it was Republican led violence but I tend to agree with the view that it might just further rile up Loyalists leading to a worse situation.

perhaps it's time we tried to work together with the loyalists and embrace their culture instead of fighting them at every step.

as an example, they love to say "NO!!!". so instead of asking "would you like the UK and ireland to have talks?" we could ask "would you like the UK and ireland to not have talks?". that way they have an option to agree without having to say "yes" which is, as i understand it, is considered deeply insulting. they probably wouldn't go along with anyway, but perhaps using ulsterrrrrr-positive language might at least take the edge off this brewing crisis.

[Vassenor]

Downing Street rewrote ‘independent’ report on race, experts claim

More corruption around the Racism Whitewash Report.

Officials at Downing Street have been accused of rewriting much of its controversial report into racial and ethnic disparities, despite appointing an independent commission to conduct an honest investigation into inequality in the UK.

The Observer has been told that significant sections of the report published on 31 March, which were criticised and debunked by health professionals, academics, business chiefs and crime experts, were not written by the 12 commissioners who were appointed last July.

The 258-page document was not made available to be read in full or signed off by the group, which included scientist and BBC broadcaster Maggie Aderin-Pocock and Samir Shah, former chair of the Runnymede Trust, nor were they made aware of its 24 final recommendations. Instead, the finished report, it is alleged, was produced by No 10.

Kunle Olulode, an anti-racism activist and director of the charity Voice4Change, is the first commissioner to condemn the government publicly for its lack of transparency. In a statement to the Observer, Olulode’s charity was scathing of the way evidence was cherrypicked, distorted and denied in the final document.

“The report does not give enough to show its understanding of institutional or structural discrimination … evidence in sections, that assertive conclusions are based on, is selective,” it said. “The report gives no clear direction on what expectations of the role of public institutions and political leadership should be in tackling race and ethnic disparities. What is the role of the state in this?”

One commissioner, who spoke out on condition of anonymity, accused the government of “bending” the work of its commission to fit “a more palatable” political narrative and denying the working group the autonomy it was promised.

“We did not read Tony’s [Sewell] foreword,” they claimed. “We did not deny institutional racism or play that down as the final document did. The idea that this report was all our own work is full of holes. You can see that in the inconsistency of the ideas and data it presents and the conclusions it makes. That end product is the work of very different views.”

The commissioner revealed that they had been privy only to the section of the report they were assigned, and that it had soon become apparent the exercise was not being taken sufficiently seriously by No 10.

“Something of this magnitude takes proper time – we were only given five months to do this work, on a voluntary basis,” they said. In contrast to the landmark 1999 Macpherson report, an inquiry into the death of Stephen Lawrence, or the 2017 Lammy Review, both of which took 18 months to conclude, the report by the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities (Cred) was not peer reviewed and was published just seven months after the group first met on a videocall.

The group, led by Sewell, was set up by Samuel Kasumu, No 10’s most senior black special adviser, who resigned from his post on the day the report was published, aghast at its final findings. Accusations that Munira Mirza, director of No 10’s policy unit, was heavily involved in steering the direction of the supposedly independent report were not directly addressed by a No 10 spokesperson, who said: “I would reiterate the report is independent and that the government is committed to tackling inequality.”

A source involved in the commission told the Observer that “basic fundamentals in putting a document like this together were ignored. When you’re producing something so historic, you have to avoid unnecessary controversy, you don’t court it like this report did. And the comms was just shocking.”

While the prime minister sought to distance himself from the criticism a day after its publication, unusually it was his office rather than the Cred secretariat which initially released the report to the press.

A spokesperson for the race commission said: “We reject these allegations. They are deliberately seeking to divert attention from the recommendations made in the report.

“The commission’s view is that, if implemented, these 24 recommendations can change for the better the lives of millions across the UK, whatever their ethnic or social background. That is the goal they continue to remain focused on.”

[The Nihilistic view]

It's probably worth reminding you about the EU's push for built in speed limiters and breathalysers within new cars in the next few years if you want to talk about sticking heads through Windows to monitor what you are doing as a private citizen.

Oh hey, more things we could've stopped from happening but chose to run off and hide under the bed instead.

Why do we need to stop it if that's what they want to do? We have the choice to do it or not to do it and that's fine for me.

[Heloin]

I can understand how it would help if it was Republican led violence but I tend to agree with the view that it might just further rile up Loyalists leading to a worse situation.

Unionist violence could probably calm down if the government they want to remain apart of looked like it gave a damn about keeping them.

[Souseiseki]

I can understand how it would help if it was Republican led violence but I tend to agree with the view that it might just further rile up Loyalists leading to a worse situation.

Unionist violence could probably calm down if the government they want to remain apart of looked like it gave a damn about keeping them.

it is kinda strange to see the disparity between the "well fuck it we'll just leave then" of scottish nationalism and the "please notice me senpai" of loyalists

[The Huskar Social Union]

Unionist violence could probably calm down if the government they want to remain apart of looked like it gave a damn about keeping them.

it is kinda strange to see the disparity between the "well fuck it we'll just leave then" of scottish nationalism and the "please notice me senpai" of loyalists

Well Scottish Nationalism isnt really that similar to Loyalism or Unionism. Its more akin to Irish Nationalism than anything.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I can understand how it would help if it was Republican led violence but I tend to agree with the view that it might just further rile up Loyalists leading to a worse situation.

Loyalism will be angry regardless of who is involved. Unless they get a complete reversal of brexit with a hard border with the Republic some of them will continue to try and cause issues. But i think the UK and Ireland need to work together to back up everyone else in NI, from nationalists to others to moderate unionists.


Im convinced its only a matter of time till someone is either killed or severely injured in this. I mean there have been molotov battles between youths on both sides, hijacking and destroying vehicles and attacks on passer-by's and photographers and a lot of injured police officers.

[The Huskar Social Union]

What needs to be done is to break the hold Loyalism has over working class protestant areas, but that is a monumental fight to take on. They have rooted themselves in there for decades and influenced these communities for generations.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Government to throw £10m of public cash at project to 'transition' paramilitaries into community groups

Full article is behind a pay wall but you can read this part:

The Government is throwing £10m of public cash at a project to help paramilitary gangs in areas ravaged by recent riots 'transition' into community groups.

The massive spend, which has been branded "incredible" by politicians, was signed off by the Executive Office last week.

Schemes supported by loyalists and republicans in Belfast (right), Derry and Carrickfergus - which bore the brunt of the past seven days of trouble - will receive millions of pounds in funding. Several of these involve former UVF and IRA prisoners.

This place is a joke. Ill try and find the full article without the paywall or a quote of it at least to share here.

The NI healthcare system is in fucking tatters, mental health is at an all time low and growing use of foodbanks but hey lets give 10 million quid to people who rioted and vandalised their own areas recently so they can do "Community work" fuck me what an embarrassment.

So we know enough about these organisations to give them millions in taxpayer money but not to fucking arrest them all? Okay sure.

[Heloin]

Government to throw £10m of public cash at project to 'transition' paramilitaries into community groups

Full article is behind a pay wall but you can read this part:

The Government is throwing £10m of public cash at a project to help paramilitary gangs in areas ravaged by recent riots 'transition' into community groups.

The massive spend, which has been branded "incredible" by politicians, was signed off by the Executive Office last week.

Schemes supported by loyalists and republicans in Belfast (right), Derry and Carrickfergus - which bore the brunt of the past seven days of trouble - will receive millions of pounds in funding. Several of these involve former UVF and IRA prisoners.

This place is a joke. Ill try and find the full article without the paywall or a quote of it at least to share here.

The NI healthcare system is in fucking tatters, mental health is at an all time low and growing use of foodbanks but hey lets give 10 million quid to people who rioted and vandalised their own areas recently so they can do "Community work" fuck me what an embarrassment.

So we know enough about these organisations to give them millions in taxpayer money but not to fucking arrest them all? Okay sure.

Ten million pounds from the British government straight into the cheque books of paramilitaries sounds more like a joke out of Yes Minister.

[Souseiseki]

Government to throw £10m of public cash at project to 'transition' paramilitaries into community groups

Full article is behind a pay wall but you can read this part:

The Government is throwing £10m of public cash at a project to help paramilitary gangs in areas ravaged by recent riots 'transition' into community groups.

The massive spend, which has been branded "incredible" by politicians, was signed off by the Executive Office last week.

Schemes supported by loyalists and republicans in Belfast (right), Derry and Carrickfergus - which bore the brunt of the past seven days of trouble - will receive millions of pounds in funding. Several of these involve former UVF and IRA prisoners.

This place is a joke. Ill try and find the full article without the paywall or a quote of it at least to share here.

The NI healthcare system is in fucking tatters, mental health is at an all time low and growing use of foodbanks but hey lets give 10 million quid to people who rioted and vandalised their own areas recently so they can do "Community work" fuck me what an embarrassment.

So we know enough about these organisations to give them millions in taxpayer money but not to fucking arrest them all? Okay sure.

i'm pretty sure they did this in some south american country with one of the drug gangs and it actually worked. the political dimension makes it a lot more complicated, but for your bog standard gangs where they're a product of failing communities, integrating them actually does work. well, it does if you trust that one source i can't find at the moment but swear totally exists. it's the same logic behind "if the gangs are making money off weed being illegal why not just make weed legal and the gangs will go away" except at a grander scale.

[The Huskar Social Union]

This is another paywalled article but you can still get the few top quotes. Again im trying to find the full thing to post here:

UVF orders removal of Catholic families from Carrickfergus housing estate in '21st century form of ethnic cleansing'

The UVF has ordered the removal of Catholic families from a housing estate in Carrickfergus in what has been termed a "form of 21st century ethnic cleansing".

The terror gang was behind attacks on three homes in the Woodburn estate in which they believed Catholics have been staying. Sources say the attacks were based purely on rumours about the occupants or people linked to them.

Windows at properties on Cherry Walk and Glenfield Walk were smashed late last Wednesday night. The home of a pensioner on Pinewood Avenue, who only moved into the bungalow last month, was also targeted. Some of the occupants are understood to have since fled the area.

But hey we need to give them money so they can do community work right?


edit: Got the full article

The UVF has ordered the removal of Catholic families from a housing estate in Carrickfergus in what has been termed a "form of 21st century ethnic cleansing".

The terror gang was behind attacks on three homes in the Woodburn estate in which they believed Catholics have been staying. Sources say the attacks were based purely on rumours about the occupants or people linked to them.

Windows at properties on Cherry Walk and Glenfield Walk were smashed late last Wednesday night. The home of a pensioner on Pinewood Avenue, who only moved into the bungalow last month, was also targeted. Some of the occupants are understood to have since fled the area.

The PSNI's Sergeant Cowan said: "Just after 9pm we received a report that the living room window of a property in the Glenfield Walk area had been smashed at 8.20pm.

"At 9.40pm we received two further reports that windows had been smashed at houses in the Cherry Walk and Pinewood Avenue areas. In both cases a man wearing a balaclava was seen running from both addresses."

Security sources told Sunday Life that the UVF was behind the attacks having ordered the removal of all Catholics from loyalist estates in Carrickfergus. Sources say they were ordered purely on the basis of rumours about the occupants or people linked to them.

"It's a form of 21st century ethnic cleansing," said the insider. "The UVF has drawn up a list of people living in Woodburn who they suspect are Catholics, or are living with Catholics."

The attacks are taking place despite the Executive Office spending millions of pounds of public cash in Carrickfergus on trying to convince loyalist gun gangs to abandon criminality through its Tackling Paramilitary Activity programme. A further £10million was committed to the fund last week.

The UVF is heavily involved in the project which pledges to "provide support and legitimate alternatives to all ex-prisoners/former combatants to reintegrate into society".

But the smashing up of homes by the UVF in which it believed Catholics had been staying makes a mockery of its transformation commitment.

Alliance MLA Stewart Dickson condemned the UVF violence, calling it "raw, naked sectarianism".

He said: "I know the vast majority of people in Carrickfergus will be horrified at these brutal attacks on innocent families.

"There is no place for this behaviour - it is dangerous and wrong. Clearly, the attempts to wean these sectarian gangs away from their activities by handing out government financial inducements is now a failed policy.

"The only reward for this behaviour must be a stiff jail sentence.

"I welcome the work of the Paramilitary Crime Taskforce in the area and look forward to their continued success in rooting out these thugs.

"Meanwhile, my sympathy goes to those families affected. I know there will be many decent people working on the ground in these areas from churches and other agencies trying to provide assurance and working to help families, and I pledge my support to them."

Loyalists rioted on the North Road in Carrickfergus for two nights last week, throwing dozens of petrol bombs at police lines. The violence was in response to what they claimed is frustration over the Irish Sea customs border and a lack of prosecutions connected to the funeral of IRA leader Bobby Storey.

The attacks on the PSNI were encouraged by both the South East Antrim UDA and UVF who warned teens involved not to riot in loyalist estates, and to instead take the trouble onto the North Road which is on the edge of the Castlemara and Sunnylands areas.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Government to throw £10m of public cash at project to 'transition' paramilitaries into community groups

Full article is behind a pay wall but you can read this part:



This place is a joke. Ill try and find the full article without the paywall or a quote of it at least to share here.

The NI healthcare system is in fucking tatters, mental health is at an all time low and growing use of foodbanks but hey lets give 10 million quid to people who rioted and vandalised their own areas recently so they can do "Community work" fuck me what an embarrassment.

So we know enough about these organisations to give them millions in taxpayer money but not to fucking arrest them all? Okay sure.

i'm pretty sure they did this in some south american country with one of the drug gangs and it actually worked. the political dimension makes it a lot more complicated, but for your bog standard gangs where they're a product of failing communities, integrating them actually does work. well, it does if you trust that one source i can't find at the moment but swear totally exists. it's the same logic behind "if the gangs are making money off weed being illegal why not just make weed legal and the gangs will go away" except at a grander scale.

If you ever find the article could you tg me it i would like to read it.

Also i agree that working class loyalist areas need to be integrated and get more investment, what i take issue with is giving the money directly to the groups that cause all this shit in the first place as they are going to use it for themselves, not the greater community.

[The New California Republic]

See this is the problem with violence, it just snowballs and before anyone realises it we are in a very dark place.