UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[The Nihilistic view]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56158435

"No party can claim to represent the country, if we don't represent the countryside," he will say.

Keir making appeals to the countryside, Labour are now fascists.

[The Nihilistic view]

Issue 4 - Nocebo effect

I don't take any relish in this problem at all and I find it fairly ironic that that on the day we have a report from Scotland that basically says the vaccines are working well. That the AZ vaccine is actually best at preventing serious illness and that it has substantial effects in the elderly it came to my attention that people are refusing this vaccine in Europe.

Apparently people are imagining side effects from their AZ jabs, effects that are not documented anywhere else and so that begs the question why? The most likely candidate is that the negative things that European and EU officials have been saying about the UKs approach and the silly guidelines about the AZ jab by their regulators as well as false news has led people to imagine problems because of what they are being fed about it.

First we had the EU say the the UKs regulatory body was cutting corners as a response to criticism that the EU was taking too long. We weren't. Then we had the fake news from Germany about the AZ jab. Then we had the French criticise both the jab and our dose policy, yet again we were correct in our assumptions. Then we had the whole debacle about the delivery of AZ jabs which culminated in the EU saying it shouldn't be given to old people. So after complaining about not getting enough they now won't give it to the people that actually most need it. I could go on and do this country by country but the general theme is the same across pretty much the whole EU. The fake news in Germany about the jab is probably the biggest surprise as it's not the sort of thing I expect from a county like that about something so serious. France is maybe more understandable as they have a bit of an antivax undercurrent.

The result of all this is that people in Europe are turning down the AZ jab, so the vast majority of doses sofar delivered are sitting unused. You have health professionals pulling sickies because of a nocebo effect and those that haven't been vaccinated demanding a different jab. People in france are canceling appointments if they might get the AZ jab. Some areas have just stopped using it in Germany and elsewhere. None of this is based on science, the science is pointing in the opposite direction with ever increasing certainty. By turning it down people will die and the virus transmission won't reduce as quickly as it should. It also begs the question if this continues what will they do with 300 million AZ doses nobody wants?

So by cocking up their vaccine orders, blaming everybody but themselves for it, then pretending the AZ jab isn't very good because if you pretend that then it doesn't matter if you don't get any doses surprise surprise enough people begin to think they don't want it. I'm not sure if it's hubris or just plain stupidity but with the efforts to cover up it's own shortcomings the EU has helped to condemn thousands of it's people to die.

Normally finding out about an EU cockup is quite a nice thing for me, it helps validate my own thinking on the subject in a way that can be a pleasure at times. But what we are seeing here is how the problems with the leadership of the EU manifests itself with an issue of great importance. There is a human consequence to the way the EU conducts itself at the top levels. At this point I wish dearly that it wasn't true and that these sorts of institutional problems I see with the EU leadership didn't exist even if that would have harmed the Brexit push in the previous decade. But if the issues here didn't exist they wouldn't then result in what seems to be unfolding or at the very least the EU wouldn't be partly responsible for the direction of travel.

[Celritannia]

Issue 4 - Nocebo effect

I don't take any relish in this problem at all and I find it fairly ironic that that on the day we have a report from Scotland that basically says the vaccines are working well. That the AZ vaccine is actually best at preventing serious illness and that it has substantial effects in the elderly it came to my attention that people are refusing this vaccine in Europe.

Apparently people are imagining side effects from their AZ jabs, effects that are not documented anywhere else and so that begs the question why? The most likely candidate is that the negative things that European and EU officials have been saying about the UKs approach and the silly guidelines about the AZ jab by their regulators as well as false news has led people to imagine problems because of what they are being fed about it.

First we had the EU say the the UKs regulatory body was cutting corners as a response to criticism that the EU was taking too long. We weren't. Then we had the fake news from Germany about the AZ jab. Then we had the French criticise both the jab and our dose policy, yet again we were correct in our assumptions. Then we had the whole debacle about the delivery of AZ jabs which culminated in the EU saying it shouldn't be given to old people. So after complaining about not getting enough they now won't give it to the people that actually most need it. I could go on and do this country by country but the general theme is the same across pretty much the whole EU. The fake news in Germany about the jab is probably the biggest surprise as it's not the sort of thing I expect from a county like that about something so serious. France is maybe more understandable as they have a bit of an antivax undercurrent.

The result of all this is that people in Europe are turning down the AZ jab, so the vast majority of doses sofar delivered are sitting unused. You have health professionals pulling sickies because of a nocebo effect and those that haven't been vaccinated demanding a different jab. People in france are canceling appointments if they might get the AZ jab. Some areas have just stopped using it in Germany and elsewhere. None of this is based on science, the science is pointing in the opposite direction with ever increasing certainty. By turning it down people will die and the virus transmission won't reduce as quickly as it should. It also begs the question if this continues what will they do with 300 million AZ doses nobody wants?

So by cocking up their vaccine orders, blaming everybody but themselves for it, then pretending the AZ jab isn't very good because if you pretend that then it doesn't matter if you don't get any doses surprise surprise enough people begin to think they don't want it. I'm not sure if it's hubris or just plain stupidity but with the efforts to cover up it's own shortcomings the EU has helped to condemn thousands of it's people to die.

Normally finding out about an EU cockup is quite a nice thing for me, it helps validate my own thinking on the subject in a way that can be a pleasure at times. But what we are seeing here is how the problems with the leadership of the EU manifests itself with an issue of great importance. There is a human consequence to the way the EU conducts itself at the top levels. At this point I wish dearly that it wasn't true and that these sorts of institutional problems I see with the EU leadership didn't exist even if that would have harmed the Brexit push in the previous decade. But if the issues here didn't exist they wouldn't then result in what seems to be unfolding or at the very least the EU wouldn't be partly responsible for the direction of travel.

This isn't really a general issue about the EU, but a specific situation over the pandemic.

That's 2 of these thus far, and they are not even overall issues with the EU.

Come on, up the game.

[Celritannia]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56158435

"No party can claim to represent the country, if we don't represent the countryside," he will say.

Keir making appeals to the countryside, Labour are now fascists.

Not really, this is good economics on Labour's part, especially with the Farmers, and fisheries, losing subsidies from the EU.

[Chan Island]

I always found that ironic, especially when the Tories have a former IRA member in their party.

The union of Irish independists and aristocratic conservatives is exactly what we need to restore Stuart monarchs.

Stay tuned for the newest British Politics Blockbuster: The Revenge of Bonnie Prince Charles, This Time It's Personal, The Electric Boogaloo.

[Old Tyrannia]

I always found that ironic, especially when the Tories have a former IRA member in their party.

The union of Irish independists and aristocratic conservatives is exactly what we need to restore Stuart monarchs.

That would be difficult in light of the fact that the royal Stuarts are all dead.

[The New California Republic]

The union of Irish independists and aristocratic conservatives is exactly what we need to restore Stuart monarchs.

That would be difficult in light of the fact that the royal Stuarts are all dead.

The Duke of Bavaria is still alive and kicking.

[Philjia]

That would be difficult in light of the fact that the royal Stuarts are all dead.

The Duke of Bavaria is still alive and kicking.

I prefer to call him by his excellent full name Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Herzog von Bayern.

[The Huskar Social Union]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56158435

"No party can claim to represent the country, if we don't represent the countryside," he will say.

Keir making appeals to the countryside, Labour are now fascists.

Think its a solid idea.

[The Archregimancy]

That would be difficult in light of the fact that the royal Stuarts are all dead.

The Duke of Bavaria is still alive and kicking.

Interesting trivia point about the Jacobite Succession (which, let's be clear, has long-since become a slightly diverting hypothetical rather than a serious proposition)...

The 87-year-old Franz, Duke of Bavaria, has never married, and has no legitimate children. His heir is his 84-year-old brother Prince Max, Duke of Bavaria (shame he didn't marry Queen Maxima of the Netherlands). Now, Max only has daughters. The Wittelsbach succession follows Salic Law, so his daughters can't inherit the family's (abolished) Bavarian titles. However, they can inherit the claim to the Jacobite Succession; so (assuming Franz predeceases Max) the Wittelsbach and Jacobite successions will separate on Max's death.

Max's eldest daughter - and thus the eventual presumptive heir to the Jacobite Succession - is Sophie, Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein the wife of Alois, the current heir to and regent of Liechtenstein's princely throne.

The eldest son of Sophie and Alois, who will one day become the ruling prince of Liechtenstein and heir to the Jacobite succession is Prince Joseph Wenzel.

"Why have you gone into this frankly insane level of detail on the future of the Jacobite Succession, Arch?", I hear you asking.

Well, because this is Liechtenstein's national anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbK2uk2 ... onorsMusic


Coincidence?

I think not; at last the depth of the cunning Jacobite long-game is revealed.

And I, for one, welcome our new Liechtensteiner overlords. I'd like to remind them as a trusted NationStates moderator, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their Alpine salt mines.

[The New California Republic]

The Duke of Bavaria is still alive and kicking.

Interesting trivia point about the Jacobite Succession (which, let's be clear, has long-since become a slightly diverting hypothetical rather than a serious proposition)...

The 87-year-old Franz, Duke of Bavaria, has never married, and has no legitimate children. His heir is his 84-year-old brother Prince Max, Duke of Bavaria (shame he didn't marry Queen Maxima of the Netherlands). Now, Max only has daughters. The Wittelsbach succession follows Salic Law, so his daughters can't inherit the family's (abolished) Bavarian titles. However, they can inherit the claim to the Jacobite Succession; so (assuming Franz predeceases Max) the Wittelsbach and Jacobite successions will separate on Max's death.

Max's eldest daughter - and thus the eventual presumptive heir to the Jacobite Succession - is Sophie, Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein the wife of Alois, the current heir to and regent of Liechtenstein's princely throne.

The eldest son of Sophie and Alois, who will one day become the ruling prince of Liechtenstein and heir to the Jacobite succession is Prince Joseph Wenzel.

"Why have you gone into this frankly insane level of detail on the future of the Jacobite Succession, Arch?", I hear you asking.

Well, because this is Liechtenstein's national anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbK2uk2 ... onorsMusic


Coincidence?

I think not; at last the depth of the cunning Jacobite long-game is revealed.

And I, for one, welcome our new Liechtensteiner overlords. I'd like to remind them as a trusted NationStates moderator, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their Alpine salt mines.

In the Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745 my clan was loyal to the Stuarts, so my blood is telling me to support this righteous unification with Liechtenstein.

[The Blaatschapen]

The Spanish will make a few treaties to allow their army to travel into foreign territory and invade Liechtenstein just before the merge into the British crown will take place.

They will then ask for a trade, Gibraltar against Liechtenstein.

[Ifreann]

Issue 4 - Nocebo effect

I don't take any relish in this problem at all and I find it fairly ironic that that on the day we have a report from Scotland that basically says the vaccines are working well. That the AZ vaccine is actually best at preventing serious illness and that it has substantial effects in the elderly it came to my attention that people are refusing this vaccine in Europe.

Apparently people are imagining side effects from their AZ jabs, effects that are not documented anywhere else and so that begs the question why? The most likely candidate is that the negative things that European and EU officials have been saying about the UKs approach and the silly guidelines about the AZ jab by their regulators as well as false news has led people to imagine problems because of what they are being fed about it.

Hi, I live in the EU, what the fuck are you talking about?

[The Archregimancy]

An important addition to my earlier post on the forthcoming Liechtensteiner conquest of the United Kingdom....

It turns out that Prince Joseph Wenzel, the future ruling prince of Liechtenstein and heir to the Jacobite Succession was born in London in 1995 - and then educated in Worcestershire. In fact, he's the first person in the direct Jacobite Succession to have been born in Great Britain since James Francis Edward Stuart, the Old Pretender, was also born in London in 1688.

Are there no depths to which these Jacobites will not sink in order to secure their claim to the throne?

[Ifreann]

An important addition to my earlier post on the forthcoming Liechtensteiner conquest of the United Kingdom....

It turns out that Prince Joseph Wenzel, the future ruling prince of Liechtenstein and heir to the Jacobite Succession was born in London in 1995 - and then educated in Worcestershire. In fact, he's the first person in the direct Jacobite Succession to have been born in Great Britain since James Francis Edward Stuart, the Old Pretender, was born in London in 1688.

Are there no depths to which these Jacobites will not sink in order to secure their claim to the throne?

They're nothing if not patient.

[The Archregimancy]

An important addition to my earlier post on the forthcoming Liechtensteiner conquest of the United Kingdom....

It turns out that Prince Joseph Wenzel, the future ruling prince of Liechtenstein and heir to the Jacobite Succession was born in London in 1995 - and then educated in Worcestershire. In fact, he's the first person in the direct Jacobite Succession to have been born in Great Britain since James Francis Edward Stuart, the Old Pretender, was born in London in 1688.

Are there no depths to which these Jacobites will not sink in order to secure their claim to the throne?

They're nothing if not patient.

Not quite as patient as the Merovingians allegedly are; but clearly these deposed European royal dynasties are in it for the long haul....

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Instead of returning the Stuarts to the throne of England, can we not retake the Kingdom of Hannover for our crown?

[The Blaatschapen]

Instead of returning the Stuarts to the throne of England, can we not retake the Kingdom of Hannover for our crown?

The kingdom of Hannover doesn't exist anymore.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Instead of returning the Stuarts to the throne of England, can we not retake the Kingdom of Hannover for our crown?

The kingdom of Hannover doesn't exist anymore.

We should change that.

[Chan Island]

Instead of returning the Stuarts to the throne of England, can we not retake the Kingdom of Hannover for our crown?

Why not both?

An important addition to my earlier post on the forthcoming Liechtensteiner conquest of the United Kingdom....

It turns out that Prince Joseph Wenzel, the future ruling prince of Liechtenstein and heir to the Jacobite Succession was born in London in 1995 - and then educated in Worcestershire. In fact, he's the first person in the direct Jacobite Succession to have been born in Great Britain since James Francis Edward Stuart, the Old Pretender, was also born in London in 1688.

Are there no depths to which these Jacobites will not sink in order to secure their claim to the throne?

The Battle of Culloden proved nothing! King Joseph will be the culmination of their centuries long scheme.

[The Blaatschapen]

The kingdom of Hannover doesn't exist anymore.

We should change that.

Nah, we don't need to create another crown from the gutter.

[The Archregimancy]

Instead of returning the Stuarts to the throne of England, can we not retake the Kingdom of Hannover for our crown?

Why not both?

Hanover with one 'n' in English; Hannover with two 'n's in German.

That minor pedantry aside, George V never renounced his throne after the Prussians annexed Hanover in 1866, so restoring the title would simply be righting a historic wrong.

The reason we can't have both, however, is that the Hanoverian succession follows Salic Law (male-only primogeniture) while the Jacobite succession doesn't; this is why Victoria couldn't accede to the Hanoverian throne when she became Queen.

The true heir to the Kingdom of Hanover is therefore Prince Ernst August of Hanover, and neither Charles the Prince of Wales nor Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein.


I know far, far more about this than any reasonable person realistically should.

[Salus Maior]

They're nothing if not patient.

Not quite as patient as the Merovingians allegedly are; but clearly these deposed European royal dynasties are in it for the long haul....

Oh, now I got to know the Merovingian conspiracy.

[Old Tyrannia]

That would be difficult in light of the fact that the royal Stuarts are all dead.

The Duke of Bavaria is still alive and kicking.

He's no more a Stuart than Elizabeth II, though. The House of Stuart itself has been extinct since 1807 although several non-royal branches of Clan Stewart (or Stuart) continue to persist in Scotland, the most senior of which is headed by the Earl of Galloway.

I know far, far more about this than any reasonable person realistically should.

If you're going to roast yourself then that's entirely your business, but please don't do it in a way that implicitly roasts me and half my friends as well

[Ifreann]

The Duke of Bavaria is still alive and kicking.

He's no more a Stuart than Elizabeth II, though.

I know far, far more about this than any reasonable person realistically should.

If you're going to roast yourself then that's entirely your business, but please don't do it in a way that implicitly roasts me and half my friends as well