UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

Northern Ireland abortion law changes proposed by the DUP

Of course its nothing more than a PR campaign by the DUP to distract from their failures regarding Brexit. Because Sinn Fein last year wanted to introduce an Amendment to alter the motion to only restrict access to abortions in case of severe foetal impairments such as down syndrome was voted down by the Assembly. And the DUP wanted to get rid of the thing in general. Now the DUP is saying that there should be new checks put into place regarding abortions and issues such as down syndrome.

And Paula Bradshaw of the Alliance Party says (in the article above) that such checks are already in place. And frankly, i dont believe the DUP, a party with long standing anti-LGBT attitudes, anti-Irish attitudes and generally anti-everything that isnt a Straight Protestant Unionist attitudes, when it says it wants to protect people with disabilities from discrimination

Sometimes good things are done for bad reasons. This is one of those times.

you support freedom until it backfires on you

typical libertarian

[CoraSpia]

Sometimes good things are done for bad reasons. This is one of those times.

you support freedom until it backfires on you

typical libertarian

Do you support killing disabled babies?

[The Nihilistic view]

The tories have 6 seats in Scotland, labour has 1...

It helps labour more than it does the tories, Nihil.

Conservatives have 56.15% of the current MPs. Chop of Scotland and they have 60.74% of the remaining MPs. And in England it's 64.72% of MPs.

Conservatives are the only party on the right of politics, everybody else is on the left to varying degrees. So the converse to this is as you chop off the extremities of the UK you have less MPs that aren't conservatives.

So if your goal is to first kick the conservatives out of power you need the UK to be whole. The more fractured it becomes the more that the parts that are left show a conservative bias.

That's why Scottish independence doesn't help Labour but helps the Conservatives become more dominant.

Also nobody is stupid enough to believe all those SNP voters will vote Tory if the SNP fades. They will vote Labour and Lib Dem again if you remove independence from the equation.

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

you support freedom until it backfires on you

typical libertarian

Do you support killing disabled babies?

fetuses within the legal 12 week abortion limit in Northern Ireland cannot feel nor think. they are not babies.

also it is not for you to take the moral high ground when you openly advocate not only the legalisation of but actively encourage people to kill living, born human beings by deliberately spreading diseases such as covid and rabies and think the government should leave the unemployed and homeless to die.

[CoraSpia]

Do you support killing disabled babies?

fetuses within the legal 12 week abortion limit in Northern Ireland cannot feel nor think. they are not babies.

also it is not for you to take the moral high ground when you openly advocate not only the legalisation of but actively encourage people to kill living, born human beings by deliberately spreading diseases such as covid and rabies and think the government should leave the unemployed and homeless to die.

There is no time limit for terminations when there is a "substantial risk" a fetus would suffer a severe mental or physical impairment.

A bit different from 12 weeks, don't you think?

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

The tories have 6 seats in Scotland, labour has 1...

It helps labour more than it does the tories, Nihil.

Conservatives have 56.15% of the current MPs. Chop of Scotland and they have 60.74% of the remaining MPs. And in England it's 64.72% of MPs.

Conservatives are the only party on the right of politics, everybody else is on the left to varying degrees. So the converse to this is as you chop off the extremities of the UK you have less MPs that aren't conservatives.

So if your goal is to first kick the conservatives out of power you need the UK to be whole. The more fractured it becomes the more that the parts that are left show a conservative bias.

That's why Scottish independence doesn't help Labour but helps the Conservatives become more dominant.

Also nobody is stupid enough to believe all those SNP voters will vote Tory if the SNP fades. They will vote Labour and Lib Dem again if you remove independence from the equation.

conversely, if you take the labour percentage of seats with scotland, it is 30.92%, and without Scotland it is 33.84%

labour is also net benefitted by scottish independence, proportionally slightly more than the tories when you factor in that labour has less than 2/3rds of the seats the tory party does in parliament.

i also dont see snp voters going back to labour anytime soon to be frank. electoral trends suggest the SNP are only getting stronger.

[CoraSpia]

Conservatives have 56.15% of the current MPs. Chop of Scotland and they have 60.74% of the remaining MPs. And in England it's 64.72% of MPs.

Conservatives are the only party on the right of politics, everybody else is on the left to varying degrees. So the converse to this is as you chop off the extremities of the UK you have less MPs that aren't conservatives.

So if your goal is to first kick the conservatives out of power you need the UK to be whole. The more fractured it becomes the more that the parts that are left show a conservative bias.

That's why Scottish independence doesn't help Labour but helps the Conservatives become more dominant.

Also nobody is stupid enough to believe all those SNP voters will vote Tory if the SNP fades. They will vote Labour and Lib Dem again if you remove independence from the equation.

conversely, if you take the labour percentage of seats with scotland, it is 30.92%, and without Scotland it is 33.84%

labour is also net benefitted by scottish independence, proportionally slightly more than the tories when you factor in that labour has less than 2/3rds of the seats the tory party does in parliament.

i also dont see snp voters going back to labour anytime soon to be frank. electoral trends suggest the SNP are only getting stronger.

It isn't about whether it benefits labour as well as the tories. It benefits the tories more than any other party because the snp and labour tend to form something of a voting bloc on the majority off issues.

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

fetuses within the legal 12 week abortion limit in Northern Ireland cannot feel nor think. they are not babies.

also it is not for you to take the moral high ground when you openly advocate not only the legalisation of but actively encourage people to kill living, born human beings by deliberately spreading diseases such as covid and rabies and think the government should leave the unemployed and homeless to die.

There is no time limit for terminations when there is a "substantial risk" a fetus would suffer a severe mental or physical impairment.

A bit different from 12 weeks, don't you think?

I suppose I would support narrowing the abolition of the time limit down to only in circumstances of the impairments being fatal to the life of the fetus/child within either pregnancy or infancy/childhood.

although, it is a very difficult situation. many families do not have the money to support children with severe disabilities.

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

conversely, if you take the labour percentage of seats with scotland, it is 30.92%, and without Scotland it is 33.84%

labour is also net benefitted by scottish independence, proportionally slightly more than the tories when you factor in that labour has less than 2/3rds of the seats the tory party does in parliament.

i also dont see snp voters going back to labour anytime soon to be frank. electoral trends suggest the SNP are only getting stronger.

It isn't about whether it benefits labour as well as the tories. It benefits the tories more than any other party because the snp and labour tend to form something of a voting bloc on the majority off issues.

that dosent really matter when we have a tory majority of 79 seats

i am talking more widely in terms of elections

[The New California Republic]

you support freedom until it backfires on you

typical libertarian

Do you support killing disabled babies?

Fetus. Fetus.

[CoraSpia]

There is no time limit for terminations when there is a "substantial risk" a fetus would suffer a severe mental or physical impairment.

A bit different from 12 weeks, don't you think?

I suppose I would support narrowing the abolition of the time limit down to only in circumstances of the impairments being fatal to the life of the fetus/child within either pregnancy or infancy/childhood.

although, it is a very difficult situation. many families do not have the money to support children with severe disabilities.

I'm not a lover of killing babies for your own convenience, or of disabled people being more disposable than able-bodied people. The latter one is a pretty big deal for me.

[CoraSpia]

Do you support killing disabled babies?

Fetus. Fetus.

There is no time limit for terminations when there is a "substantial risk" a fetus would suffer a severe mental or physical impairment.

A fetus that would be viable outside of the womb is a baby.

[The New California Republic]

I'm not a lover of killing babies for your own convenience, or of disabled people being more disposable than able-bodied people. The latter one is a pretty big deal for me.

Fetuses aren't people. Or babies.

[The New California Republic]

A fetus that would be viable outside of the womb is a baby.

Where exactly are you getting this definition?

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

I suppose I would support narrowing the abolition of the time limit down to only in circumstances of the impairments being fatal to the life of the fetus/child within either pregnancy or infancy/childhood.

although, it is a very difficult situation. many families do not have the money to support children with severe disabilities.

I'm not a lover of killing babies for your own convenience, or of disabled people being more disposable than able-bodied people. The latter one is a pretty big deal for me.

fetus =/= baby

please for the love of fucking god do not try and throw emotional shit about how i support 'killing babies' when you yourself have always said, in all circumstances but abortion for some reason, that you have no issues with people committing the passive manslaughter of born human beings, babies, children, adolescents, and adults.

[CoraSpia]

I'm not a lover of killing babies for your own convenience, or of disabled people being more disposable than able-bodied people. The latter one is a pretty big deal for me.

Fetuses aren't people. Or babies.

Would you support abortions up until the point of birth for non-disabled foetuses?

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

Fetus. Fetus.

There is no time limit for terminations when there is a "substantial risk" a fetus would suffer a severe mental or physical impairment.

A fetus that would be viable outside of the womb is a baby.

i am more sympathetic to this argument i suppose, which is why i support narrowing down the abortion exemptions to fatal or near-fatal cases.

[CoraSpia]

I'm not a lover of killing babies for your own convenience, or of disabled people being more disposable than able-bodied people. The latter one is a pretty big deal for me.

fetus =/= baby

please for the love of fucking god do not try and throw emotional shit about how i support 'killing babies' when you yourself have always said, in all circumstances but abortion for some reason, that you have no issues with people committing the passive manslaughter of born human beings, babies, children, adolescents, and adults.

What in the name of fuck is 'passive manslaughter?

[The New California Republic]

Fetuses aren't people. Or babies.

Would you support abortions up until the point of birth for non-disabled foetuses?

In certain cases yes actually.

But anyway there is an abortion thread for this type of discussion.

[CoraSpia]

Would you support abortions up until the point of birth for non-disabled foetuses?

In certain cases yes actually.

But anyway there is an abortion thread for this type of discussion.

I was discussing the changes being proposed by the DUP. I'll try to avoid going further into the abortion debate than 'should disabled foetuses receive the same treatment as non-disabled foetuses.'

[The New California Republic]

In certain cases yes actually.

But anyway there is an abortion thread for this type of discussion.

I was discussing the changes being proposed by the DUP. I'll try to avoid going further into the abortion debate than 'should disabled foetuses receive the same treatment as non-disabled foetuses.'

Yes I know but the argument is leaning towards becoming far more general.

[The Nihilistic view]

I think people are too abstract in their views on abortion. I'm publically for the right to choose (subject to a cut-off due to viability) but in my personal life I'm pro life.

I do happen to disagree with termination purely because there is a risk the baby might be disabled. The pressure you hear about that doctors and nurses seem to put on people in this situation to have a termination is absolutely wrong.

But it's a difficult topic which I don't believe has a satisfactory moral outcome. I guess the real question is can you live with yourself if you did it? I don't think I could.

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

fetus =/= baby

please for the love of fucking god do not try and throw emotional shit about how i support 'killing babies' when you yourself have always said, in all circumstances but abortion for some reason, that you have no issues with people committing the passive manslaughter of born human beings, babies, children, adolescents, and adults.

What in the name of fuck is 'passive manslaughter?

you see nothing wrong with the killing of others through spreading diseases to them

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

Would you support abortions up until the point of birth for non-disabled foetuses?

In certain cases yes actually.

But anyway there is an abortion thread for this type of discussion.

i would sooner pour hot boiling water down my trousers than go in there again

[The Nihilistic view]

In certain cases yes actually.

But anyway there is an abortion thread for this type of discussion.

i would sooner pour hot boiling water down my trousers than go in there again

That certainly ends the debate if you can no longer reproduce.