UK Politics Thread XIII: The Brexit Ship Departs

[Ostroeuropa]

I have explained to you quite patiently how it is in itself racism and that the discussion should entail which aspects of our society is the anti-white racism causing the outcome.

It is akin to finding a body with multiple stab wounds, signs of forced entry, and big letters in blood scrawled "I have been murdered" on the wall, and you're taking the position there's no evidence of a murder simply because only police officers with alibis are in the room and you can't see a murderer, so they must not exist.

Progressive Object Permanence issues.

No, you just keep asserting that it is because of racism because you refuse to accept that it could be anything other than racism. Maybe check yourself for tunnel vision.

Find an explanation for the outcome that isn't racist and i'll entertain it. Explain the variable in a way that does not in itself suggest a source of anti-white racism.

Go ahead and tell me how the fire started without a source of fire. I'll wait.

[Vassenor]

In fact it's seeming like you need it to be the result of racism in order to validate your other claims about the progressive conspiracy trying to destroy white males.

[Ostroeuropa]

In fact it's seeming like you need it to be the result of racism in order to validate your other claims about the progressive conspiracy trying to destroy white males.

Racism does not require intent, no conspiracy is being alleged.

[Ifreann]

Here's the thing, not taking a side is taking a side. If in one corner we have people who don't want to be oppressed and in the other we have people who want to oppress them, acting like this is a matter on which we can have a reasonable debate inherently favours the would-be oppressors.

Maybe it's differing attitudes to how I think political discourse should happen. I would say I'm broadly on the side trans rights in most cases, if I was an MP and a bill came before me baring first it didn't seriously override other people's rights (maybe in some areas there are difficult discussions to be had) any really stupid clauses say for example like the one that was originally in the scottish hate crime bill then I'd vote for it.

I won't deny trans rights are not exactly at the top of my list of priorities, there are a number of things for personal and philosophical reasons I consider more important to deal with and I hope doesn't cause too much offence.

But to get back towards the main point I think first you have to trust people to make up their own mind in a democracy and if that is the case weak arguments that are not based on reason but on hate will flounder under the examination and make themselves look absurd. I think the rise and fall of the BNP is a prime example of extreme and wrong ideas being roundly rejected once they are held up to scrutiny and have the spotlight shone on them. Therefore the role of a state broadcaster in the form of the BBC is to referee this debate and make sure that all political ideas are thoroughly examined under the microscope.

Political ideas can be examined without presenting them as reasonable alternatives to their opposed idea. The BBC eventually learned this lesson with climate change. Presenting it as a debate undermined the credibility of climate scientists, who had no choice but to tell uncomfortable truths, and gave credibility to climate change deniers, who freely peddled comfortable and profitable lies.

And I'm sure that when the BBC covers racists they don't frame it as a debate. Here's a man who thinks that the Negroid brain makes them incapable of higher thought, let's put him up against an anti-racism campaigner, as if they're on the same level, as if doing this doesn't inherently sway viewers into thinking that this is a matter on which one can be neutral, an unsettled question which has good points on both sides.

The trans issue is no different. There is no more debate to be had than there is on racial equality or anthropogenic climate change.

[SD_Film Artists]

So you can't provide actual examples of your alleged anti-white racism and just opt to deflect and re-assert.

It's been provided to you at length in the past.

I mean, is there strong evidence to support "an epidemic of anti-white racism" in the UK?

Firstly the normalization of the term white privilege and its usage is a strong example of anti-white racism, as it has no positive effect. It merely makes people lose empathy for white people. This is an example of the racist framework and ideology that is now used to determine these discussions and public policy and how it is rooted in anti-white rhetoric and effects.

Another example of this racist framework would be the move by some to remove the neutral nature of the term 'racism'; explicitly or implicitly removing anti-white racism from being considered as racism at all. This is evidence, albiet somewhat speculative, that they've gotten so tired of being called out on their racism that they're now trying to move the goal posts so that they don't even have to hide it anymore.

The example below has apparently innocent motives, but it all ties in with the excuse of "anti-white racism doesn't exist" or "it's not possible to be sexist towards men".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... a-52993306

[Ostroeuropa]

Maybe it's differing attitudes to how I think political discourse should happen. I would say I'm broadly on the side trans rights in most cases, if I was an MP and a bill came before me baring first it didn't seriously override other people's rights (maybe in some areas there are difficult discussions to be had) any really stupid clauses say for example like the one that was originally in the scottish hate crime bill then I'd vote for it.

I won't deny trans rights are not exactly at the top of my list of priorities, there are a number of things for personal and philosophical reasons I consider more important to deal with and I hope doesn't cause too much offence.

But to get back towards the main point I think first you have to trust people to make up their own mind in a democracy and if that is the case weak arguments that are not based on reason but on hate will flounder under the examination and make themselves look absurd. I think the rise and fall of the BNP is a prime example of extreme and wrong ideas being roundly rejected once they are held up to scrutiny and have the spotlight shone on them. Therefore the role of a state broadcaster in the form of the BBC is to referee this debate and make sure that all political ideas are thoroughly examined under the microscope.

Political ideas can be examined without presenting them as reasonable alternatives to their opposed idea. The BBC eventually learned this lesson with climate change. Presenting it as a debate undermined the credibility of climate scientists, who had no choice but to tell uncomfortable truths, and gave credibility to climate change deniers, who freely peddled comfortable and profitable lies.

And I'm sure that when the BBC covers racists they don't frame it as a debate. Here's a man who thinks that Negroid brain makes them incapable of higher thought, let's put him up against an anti-racism campaigner, as if they're on the same level, as if doing this doesn't inherently sway viewers into thinking that this is a matter on which one can be neutral, an unsettled question which has good points on both sides.

The trans issue is no different. There is no more debate to be had than there is on racial equality or anthropogenic climate change.

There is a debate on what the public disagrees over and wishes to debate. The alternative is ideocratic rule.

The reason we don't "debate" climate change anymore is that the public isn't debating it and so it does not need to be represented.

[Ostroeuropa]

Broke: "The vote should be limited to people with a long term financial stake in the country succeeding, if the country falls the serfs will lose nothing but we will lose everything, property owners only."

Woke: "The vote should be given to everyone."

Bespoke: "Company boards should be populated by people with a long term financial interest in the companies success. If the company fails the CEO will lose nothing, but we will lose everything. Workers only.".

Revive the Putney Debate.

[Philjia]

You put your lockdown in, your lockdown out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about...

[Vassenor]

...So it seems like the press conference keeps being delayed so Boris can watch the rugby match.

[The New California Republic]

You put your lockdown in, your lockdown out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about...

Makes me wonder what Sturgeon is going to say. She seems to be going for this really weird and asinine one-upmanship at the moment (five tier system...), so how she will make our lockdown bigger and better?

[Philjia]

You put your lockdown in, your lockdown out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about...

Makes me wonder what Sturgeon is going to say. She seems to be going for this really weird and asinine one-upmanship at the moment (five tier system...), so how she will make our lockdown bigger and better?

Sturgeon says "don't go to England".

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Even by Johnson's usual standards this is excessive dithering, the press briefing was originally scheduled for 4.

[Ostroeuropa]

Sean Connery died and the media is immediately taking the opportunity to peddle more propaganda about misogyny, toxic masculinity, and so on and making that the focus of discussion.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Sean Connery died and the media is immediately taking the opportunity to peddle more propaganda about misogyny, toxic masculinity, and so on and making that the focus of discussion.

Yeah got to have that paragraph about how his portrayal of Bond isn't acceptable to modern audiences and how rapey the character used to be. You'd think it wouldn't be the time or place, but we're in an "all the time, everywhere" sort of world. The agenda must prevail!

[Ostroeuropa]

Sean Connery died and the media is immediately taking the opportunity to peddle more propaganda about misogyny, toxic masculinity, and so on and making that the focus of discussion.

Yeah got to have that paragraph about how his portrayal of Bond isn't acceptable to modern audiences and how rapey the character used to be. You'd think it wouldn't be the time or place, but we're in an "all the time, everywhere" sort of world. The agenda must prevail!

They also went after him personally, not just the character.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Yeah got to have that paragraph about how his portrayal of Bond isn't acceptable to modern audiences and how rapey the character used to be. You'd think it wouldn't be the time or place, but we're in an "all the time, everywhere" sort of world. The agenda must prevail!

They also went after him personally, not just the character.

Ah bollocks I guess I was only reading the more tasteful takes. Lovely.

[Philjia]

Here's a quick rundown of measures being brought in from Thursday:
- People should stay at home except for shopping for essentials, work, exercise, medical appointments or education
- People should work from home if possible
- Sit down restaurants to close
- Vulnerable people should minimise contact with people outside support bubble
- Furlough scheme to be brought back
- Schools, colleges, and universities will remain open

[The New California Republic]

Here's a quick rundown of measures being brought in from Thursday:
- People should stay at home except for shopping for essentials, work, exercise, medical appointments or education
- People should work from home if possible
- Sit down restaurants to close
- Vulnerable people should minimise contact with people outside support bubble
- Furlough scheme to be brought back
- Schools, colleges, and universities will remain open

*Watches as restaurant owners convert their premises to use standing tables only*

[The Huskar Social Union]

The pandemic response this year should, in an ideal world, cost the Tory's the next election. It has been an utter fucking shambles.

[Vassenor]

The pandemic response this year should, in an ideal world, cost the Tory's the next election. It has been an utter fucking shambles.

But it won't because they'll hide behind Brexit and a wall of dead cats.

[The Huskar Social Union]

And i was stunned, stunned that earlier in this year i honestly considered Stormont, STORMONT, to be doing a better job than Westminster. Then roll around july and August and just fucking open everything up again and the stupidity intensifies.

[Nuroblav]

*Watches as restaurant owners convert their premises to use standing tables only*

Quick guys! Passing police officer! Everybody kick your chairs under!

[The New California Republic]

The pandemic response this year should, in an ideal world, cost the Tory's the next election. It has been an utter fucking shambles.

"Eat out to help out"? More like "eat out to spread it about."

[The Huskar Social Union]

hmmmmmm

[The New California Republic]

hmmmmmm

Conservative minister: “The incompetence is another level. Is this a deliberate destruction of the Tory Party? People only vote for us because they think we don’t care, but are competent. Lose the competence and we’re fucked. We’ve lost the competence. And we are fucked.”