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A Chip is Coming Into Your Brain

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Given a choice, would you use this kind of product?

Yes
51
30%
No
121
70%
 
Total votes : 172

User avatar
Washingtonae
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Dec 17, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Washingtonae » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:55 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Washingtonae wrote:I doubt many people will agree to this, but if they do, we are truly doomed as a species. The only thing more disturbing than technological trans-humanism is the amount of people that support it. AI and robotics are an existential threat to humanity, and people like Elon Musk are on course to just allow it to destroy us because it might make life a little easier.


Once again, yes. AI and robotics are a threat to humanity as we know it. But how can you be satisfied with humanity as it is?


I'm not satisfied with how some humans behave, but I'm satisfied with humans as an organism. This is the form nature intended for us, and completely getting rid of it for convenience is a violent perversion of nature that can't end well. History is not kind to those who play God.

User avatar
Washingtonae
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Dec 17, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Washingtonae » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:58 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Washingtonae wrote:I doubt many people will agree to this, but if they do, we are truly doomed as a species. The only thing more disturbing than technological trans-humanism is the amount of people that support it. AI and robotics are an existential threat to humanity, and people like Elon Musk are on course to just allow it to destroy us because it might make life a little easier.


I wouldn't call correcting horribly crippling disorders making life "a little easier." This is tremendous for medicine.


I probably should've explained the difference between technological and genetic trans-humanism. Curing disorders and deformities is not wrong, but being human is not a disability. Genetic modification has promise if we use it responsibly, because we can improve ourselves while still being human. I'm all for curing deformities, but most of the people who want to use this stuff just think getting rid of their body and becoming a machine will fix all their problems.

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 144863
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:06 pm

Washingtonae wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Once again, yes. AI and robotics are a threat to humanity as we know it. But how can you be satisfied with humanity as it is?


I'm not satisfied with how some humans behave, but I'm satisfied with humans as an organism. This is the form nature intended for us, and completely getting rid of it for convenience is a violent perversion of nature that can't end well. History is not kind to those who play God.

Edward Jenner, Louis Pasteur, Jonas Salk, all remembered by history as monsters.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14114
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:12 pm

Washingtonae wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Once again, yes. AI and robotics are a threat to humanity as we know it. But how can you be satisfied with humanity as it is?


I'm not satisfied with how some humans behave, but I'm satisfied with humans as an organism. This is the form nature intended for us, and completely getting rid of it for convenience is a violent perversion of nature that can't end well. History is not kind to those who play God.


"History is not kind to those who play God" would mean that God is dead. Or in hell?
In any case it's a very bad reason not to exercise our power to remake humanity.

Our fight against disease, famine and war are all "us playing God".
The alternative, to just accept suffering as "what nature intended for us" is a total non-starter with me!
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
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High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
East Blepia
Envoy
 
Posts: 250
Founded: Jan 16, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby East Blepia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:24 pm

This is an absolutely disgusting and repulsive concept.

Anyone who agreed to permit one of these ungodly devices into their brain would give a corporation, an entity with the sole purpose of generating revenue, control over all of their thoughts. They could implement advertisements, they could compel users to make some purchase or to do something beneficial to the corporation or anyone who were to pay the corporation, and on top of all of that they could implement a sort of catch-22 clause into the device which would not permit any consideration whatsoever of the user having the device removed. This is a totally and completely demonic contraption which if enforced upon all persons could usher in an irreversible and inviolable corporate world order, or fascist or communist world order, or any sort of world order or organisation or system which the controller of the chips could envision. I can not mentally recite the word 'no' enough to give this proposition what it is due.
20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, 10 years in Syria, constant brinksmanship with Iran, $230 billion[1] and counting in military and economic aid to a first-world country, and the agitation of Islamic extremism[2] causing tens of thousands of civilian deaths is not enough. America MUST do more for Israel. If you ask what we get in exchange, you are an anti-semite.

1. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf "As of March 2020, in 2018 U.S. dollars (inflation-adjusted), total U.S.
aid to Israel... is $236 billion."

2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver "Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple...You attacked us in Palestine...the degree of American support for Israel"

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 144863
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:30 pm

East Blepia wrote:This is an absolutely disgusting and repulsive concept.

Anyone who agreed to permit one of these ungodly devices into their brain would give a corporation, an entity with the sole purpose of generating revenue, control over all of their thoughts. They could implement advertisements, they could compel users to make some purchase or to do something beneficial to the corporation or anyone who were to pay the corporation, and on top of all of that they could implement a sort of catch-22 clause into the device which would not permit any consideration whatsoever of the user having the device removed. This is a totally and completely demonic contraption which if enforced upon all persons could usher in an irreversible and inviolable corporate world order, or fascist or communist world order, or any sort of world order or organisation or system which the controller of the chips could envision. I can not mentally recite the word 'no' enough to give this proposition what it is due.

Musk's brain implants couldn't do any of the shit you describe, even if he wanted it to. Letting Musk put this thing in your brain might kill you, or injure you, or might just do nothing, but it definitely won't give him control of your thoughts.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
East Blepia
Envoy
 
Posts: 250
Founded: Jan 16, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby East Blepia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:36 pm

Ifreann wrote:
East Blepia wrote:This is an absolutely disgusting and repulsive concept.

Anyone who agreed to permit one of these ungodly devices into their brain would give a corporation, an entity with the sole purpose of generating revenue, control over all of their thoughts. They could implement advertisements, they could compel users to make some purchase or to do something beneficial to the corporation or anyone who were to pay the corporation, and on top of all of that they could implement a sort of catch-22 clause into the device which would not permit any consideration whatsoever of the user having the device removed. This is a totally and completely demonic contraption which if enforced upon all persons could usher in an irreversible and inviolable corporate world order, or fascist or communist world order, or any sort of world order or organisation or system which the controller of the chips could envision. I can not mentally recite the word 'no' enough to give this proposition what it is due.

Musk's brain implants couldn't do any of the shit you describe, even if he wanted it to. Letting Musk put this thing in your brain might kill you, or injure you, or might just do nothing, but it definitely won't give him control of your thoughts.


The device could have some sort of wireless receptor which could be remotely controlled.
20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, 10 years in Syria, constant brinksmanship with Iran, $230 billion[1] and counting in military and economic aid to a first-world country, and the agitation of Islamic extremism[2] causing tens of thousands of civilian deaths is not enough. America MUST do more for Israel. If you ask what we get in exchange, you are an anti-semite.

1. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf "As of March 2020, in 2018 U.S. dollars (inflation-adjusted), total U.S.
aid to Israel... is $236 billion."

2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver "Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple...You attacked us in Palestine...the degree of American support for Israel"

User avatar
Wabberjocky
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 23
Founded: Oct 07, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wabberjocky » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:38 pm

I choose a chocolate chip

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6718
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:39 pm

Absolutely not in my body. The potential for this to be abused by governments and megacorporations is unreal
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Bassoe
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 168
Founded: Apr 12, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Bassoe » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:41 pm

Too abusable. Only acceptable if airgapped and all software is open-source and a copy of it has been posted on various apolitical internet cracker communities for a few months before actually being used for them find any potential backdoors.

User avatar
Aureumterra
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8521
Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Aureumterra » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:44 pm

East Blepia wrote:This is an absolutely disgusting and repulsive concept.

Anyone who agreed to permit one of these ungodly devices into their brain would give a corporation, an entity with the sole purpose of generating revenue, control over all of their thoughts. They could implement advertisements, they could compel users to make some purchase or to do something beneficial to the corporation or anyone who were to pay the corporation, and on top of all of that they could implement a sort of catch-22 clause into the device which would not permit any consideration whatsoever of the user having the device removed. This is a totally and completely demonic contraption which if enforced upon all persons could usher in an irreversible and inviolable corporate world order, or fascist or communist world order, or any sort of world order or organisation or system which the controller of the chips could envision. I can not mentally recite the word 'no' enough to give this proposition what it is due.

Except it’s technologically impossible to do any of the things you just mentioned
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User avatar
Rusozak
Senator
 
Posts: 3980
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rusozak » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:45 pm

Bassoe wrote:Too abusable. Only acceptable if airgapped and all software is open-source and a copy of it has been posted on various apolitical internet cracker communities for a few months before actually being used for them find any potential backdoors.


Uh, open source is just handing hackers everything they need to abuse it.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

User avatar
Destyntine
Envoy
 
Posts: 235
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Destyntine » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:47 pm

I am a transhumanist, but anything messing with my brain is a no-no.
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄ I do stuff n' thangs.¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀

Spaceship go Vroooom!
Yeah, I'm sassy! Get over it!

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6718
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:49 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Bassoe wrote:Too abusable. Only acceptable if airgapped and all software is open-source and a copy of it has been posted on various apolitical internet cracker communities for a few months before actually being used for them find any potential backdoors.


Uh, open source is just handing hackers everything they need to abuse it.

This entire thing is fatally flawed at its base level. Should only be used for medical reasons, anything outside of that is asking for trouble
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14114
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:51 pm

Bassoe wrote:Too abusable. Only acceptable if airgapped and all software is open-source and a copy of it has been posted on various apolitical internet cracker communities for a few months before actually being used for them find any potential backdoors.


Not seeing any incentive beyond Showing Off for the crackers to find backdoors or alert others to them. But if we're going open source (as we should) it doesn't hurt to put the code out as a challenge.

I don't know Musk's attitude to Open Source, but I imagine it is bad. "Free stuff? Not on my watch!"
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6718
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:53 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Bassoe wrote:Too abusable. Only acceptable if airgapped and all software is open-source and a copy of it has been posted on various apolitical internet cracker communities for a few months before actually being used for them find any potential backdoors.


Not seeing any incentive beyond Showing Off for the crackers to find backdoors or alert others to them. But if we're going open source (as we should) it doesn't hurt to put the code out as a challenge.

I don't know Musk's attitude to Open Source, but I imagine it is bad. "Free stuff? Not on my watch!"

There's no way this would be open source, this whole thing screams proprietary
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Diahon
Minister
 
Posts: 2514
Founded: Apr 01, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diahon » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:58 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Region of Dwipantara wrote:Neuroscientists generally agreed that Neuralink's aims are perfectly legit; what's unrealistic is their superambitious schedule. Also unlike Hyperloop, which is basically train but futuristic, a Neuralink breakthrough will open the gates to a completely new technological can of worms, where there will a lot of competition.

My point is that this Iron Man wannabe has a well-established history of believing himself to be on the verge of changing the world with his ideas for new technological marvels, but it turns out that his half-baked ideas aren't as simple as he imagined and then the project fizzles out until he half-bakes a new idea. In a few months he'll have "invented" something else and we can only hope that no one is actually rich and desperate enough to get themselves killed in the meantime.


Hi! I'm rich and desperate!

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14114
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:01 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Bassoe wrote:Too abusable. Only acceptable if airgapped and all software is open-source and a copy of it has been posted on various apolitical internet cracker communities for a few months before actually being used for them find any potential backdoors.


Uh, open source is just handing hackers everything they need to abuse it.


... then learning from that and fixing the vulnerabilities. Closed Source is essentially "security by obscurity" and tends to work perfectly until one day it fails catastrophically.

Open source is like a ragtag army of hardened veterans.
Closed Source is like an army that parades perfectly but has never seen battle.

You know the core elements and heavy lifters of the internet all run Open Source? It's secure.
You know space programs and supercomputers all run Open Source? A 'crash' is a big deal to them. It's reliable.

Windows, iOS, Android all have to be updated regularly, and at least some of those are security holes. Closed source has at least as many vulnerabilities, but because it relies on the wider community not finding them, it's more disastrous when someone does.
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14114
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:07 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Not seeing any incentive beyond Showing Off for the crackers to find backdoors or alert others to them. But if we're going open source (as we should) it doesn't hurt to put the code out as a challenge.

I don't know Musk's attitude to Open Source, but I imagine it is bad. "Free stuff? Not on my watch!"

There's no way this would be open source, this whole thing screams proprietary


He may intend that, but the best laid plans of muskrats and men oft go astray :p

The name originates from the Late Greek μόσχος 'moskhos', from Persian 'mushk', similar to Sanskrit मुष्क muṣka ("testicle"), derived from Proto-Indo-European noun "mouse". The deer gland was thought to resemble a scrotum. --Wikipedia Musk


I'm sure mr. Musk has heard this before.
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40138
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:07 pm

Finally, the chips are coming!
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21777
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:17 pm

I have depression, anxiety and aspbergers, and yet, to a chip in my head, I say fuck no
RE: Potential Cancellation of Tokyo Olympics. The only reason why countries bid to host the Olympics is for tourism. This is why countries are planning on boycotting the Beijing winter Olympics. By cancelling the 2020/21 Olympics, Japan is defacto recieving the same punishment as China, Japan did nothing wrong since World War II
Until if and when the Spanish language evolves to allow for gender-neutrality to not be totally, utterly and completely impossible, (which will take at least centuries), the concept of "LatinX" is completely ridiculous
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User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14114
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 pm

By the way, the Dragon capsule and the Falcon 9 rocket both run Linux.

As ZDNet explains, chips that have to go to space need to be radiation-hardened, and this being a niche market they can take up to 10 years to develop. In other words, they're old and slow. Linux is much more easily "stripped back" to perform a narrower range of tasks but quickly enough on slow processors (and btw reliably: this probably matters when space radiation is occasionally getting through and causing errors in the processor). So this was probably the main reason to choose Linux, with not-costing-anything to license being second. Any ideological preference of Musk's wouldn't factor much at all.

From the same source: the miniature satellites of Starlink also run Linux.
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14114
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:22 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:I have depression, anxiety and aspbergers, and yet, to a chip in my head, I say fuck no


*five seconds of pure orgasmic pleasure*

Is it still "fuck no" or do you need another blast?
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21777
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:23 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I have depression, anxiety and aspbergers, and yet, to a chip in my head, I say fuck no


*five seconds of pure orgasmic pleasure*

Is it still "fuck no" or do you need another blast?

Fuck no
RE: Potential Cancellation of Tokyo Olympics. The only reason why countries bid to host the Olympics is for tourism. This is why countries are planning on boycotting the Beijing winter Olympics. By cancelling the 2020/21 Olympics, Japan is defacto recieving the same punishment as China, Japan did nothing wrong since World War II
Until if and when the Spanish language evolves to allow for gender-neutrality to not be totally, utterly and completely impossible, (which will take at least centuries), the concept of "LatinX" is completely ridiculous
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In-Character posts made by this fictious account do not reflect the actions of any real world government

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6718
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:24 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I have depression, anxiety and aspbergers, and yet, to a chip in my head, I say fuck no


*five seconds of pure orgasmic pleasure*

Is it still "fuck no" or do you need another blast?

Get people addicted to it then use it to manipulate them. That's the kind of abuse people are afraid of.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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