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A Chip is Coming Into Your Brain

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Given a choice, would you use this kind of product?

Yes
51
30%
No
121
70%
 
Total votes : 172

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Region of Dwipantara
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Posts: 628
Founded: Dec 12, 2019
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A Chip is Coming Into Your Brain

Postby Region of Dwipantara » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:52 pm

Image

Nearly everyone (including you), if they live long enough, will develop at least one brain-spine neurological disorder. I have witnessed one myself, where an aging relative slowly decays into an infant-like mental state; it was terrible. An implantable device can solve this problem. All of your senses: your sight, hearing, smell, pain, feeling, these are all electrical signals sent by neurons to the brain. If someone can correct and control these signals with a machine, you can actually say a permanent goodbye to:
  • Depression,
  • Insomnia,
  • Memory loss
  • Hearing loss,
  • Blindness,
  • Paralysis,
  • Extreme Pain,
  • Seizures,
  • Anxiety,
  • Strokes,
  • Brain damage,
  • and even Addiction.
At least, that's what's promised during a Neuralink demonstration to recruit new talents, when the tech entrepreneur Elon Musk on Friday showed off a pig whose brain he says has been implanted with a small computer. Musk co-founded Neuralink in 2016 with the goal of creating a wireless brain-machine interface, something scientists hope can help cure neurological conditions and allow people with paralysis to control a computer mouse. The new device Musk described Friday is much smaller, does not require the visible ear device, and would be implanted in the brain by a surgical robot under local anesthesia. The device is removable, Musk said, and he showed off another pig, Dorothy, whom he claimed had had one of the devices implanted and subsequently removed.
Musk wrote:What Dorothy [the pig] illustrates is that you can put in the Neuralink, remove it, and be healthy, happy and indistinguishable from a normal pig.

Musk did not present any scientific data to support his claims about the pigs or the devices.

While most of the near-term practical applications of wireless brain-machine interfaces are medical, Musk has also expressed a desire that such devices could help human intelligence compete with artificial intelligence, which he considers an “existential threat”. At Friday’s event, the entrepreneur made a number of outsize claims about the potential capabilities of the technology, including that it could be used to summon a Tesla, play video games, or allow a person with a severed spinal cord to walk again.

While curing depression and all sounds great, it has to be noted that Neuralink is founded with a single long-term objective: symbiosis between AI and the human race.
Axios wrote:Comparing the outcome of humans vs. primates, when it comes to AI, the SpaceX founder noted that we could very well end up becoming the equivalent of our animal-brethren to our machine overlords. However, Elon is working on a solution to that particular issue.

The technology being developed by Neuralink will allow us to integrate with computers to access and process information just as well as our AI counterparts. Essentially, our brains will have our very own AI in a cloud that our brains can synthesize with as needed. We already interface with our computers on a regular basis, so the jump from an external device to an internal one would be a natural progression.

It might seem a little far-fetched to have implants in our brains that enable such a capability, but as Elon cited in this interview, such technology is already in development for other needs. For example, scientists are already able to tap into the brain’s electrical pulses that control muscles, meaning that in the case of paralysis, the signal paths can be restored and thus restore movement to once immobile limbs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo


Neuroscience experts say that while Neuralink’s mission to read and stimulate brain activity in humans is feasible, the company’s timeline appears overly ambitious. But given the rate of technological acceleration, it is not unfeasible to imagine a mid to far future where telepathy and internet-connected brain become the norm, replacing all the functions currently held by our smartphone. Work, media, entertainment, communication, education, and many more can be streamed directly into our brain as opposed to emanating from our screen and earphone. Clearly, research in this field will be one of the most prominent revolutionary technology that will significantly and irreversibly alter society at large. This is what the hype about Neuralink is all about: not really a brand new technology, but its mass-marketing into the widespread population.

The Next Web wrote:Neuralink represents the first bold steps towards transhumanism for our species. If you want to really dumb it down, think about brain-computer interfaces (BCI) like the computers manufacturer’s started installing in cars in the 1990s. There was a time, long ago, when you’d take your car to a mechanic and they’d diagnose it like a human doctor making a house call. They listen to it, maybe drive it around the block, and eventually start taking things apart to see if they could confirm their suspected diagnosis.

With computers, myriad mechanical and electrical automobile problems can be diagnosed by simply connecting the car to a workstation. A BCI could offer humans similar sensing capabilities. Imagine if you could diagnose health conditions that require anecdotal evidence – such as headaches and other neurologically-induced pain – through direct, real-time analsysis of brain activity. That’d be a game-changer for anyone who’s ever had a migraine.

All that’s interesting, but none of it is new. Scientists have toiled to create a suitable BCI for medical purposes for decades. The reason Neuralink‘s event is, potentially, so exciting is that it represents the first time a serious organization has attempted to bring an invasive BCI out of the realm of medicine and into the general consumer sector.

Make no mistake, Musk’s vision for Neuralink clearly states this device is aimed at everyone. The obvious non-medical benefits would include things like unlocking and opening doors with your mind or sending and receiving text messages as thoughts. These might seem like far-future tech, but the truth is that the ability to do these things has been around awhile. Neuralink‘s working on the hard parts: designing scalable software and hardware and making the surgery to implant it as much like a clockwork outpatient procedure as possible.

The real benefits, the exciting stuff, has more to do with data gathering than telepathy. A BCI capable of translating brain activity in real-time with enough bandwidth to constantly stream could theoretically make mental health conditions as easily-diagnosed and treatable as physical injuries. Imagine if the mental health equivalent of a sprained wrist – say, a mildly traumatic experience – could be diagnosed with precision and treated in such a way that progress and improvement could be codified and monitored.
https://thenextweb.com/neural/2020/08/2 ... s-awesome/


It is very likely that billions of people in the future will adopt this kind of technology into their livelihood sooner or later, making massive worldwide changes a certainty. By future, I mean probably like 2030-2040. Obviously, there are multitude of potentially catastrophic risks, from hacking and cyberwarfare to the PRC's surveillance system to big transformation on how society interacts. Thoughts?
Last edited by Region of Dwipantara on Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Asardia
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Postby Asardia » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:56 pm

The biggest issue with this is that it can easily be abused. For example, someone could manipulate the device to cause all those problems it was meant to take away.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:57 pm

In the future we are all gonna become cyborgs :) Cool!

But I do have concerns with manipulation of these devices though.
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Postby Rusozak » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:02 pm

I can see it being huge for people that have nowhere else to turn. People crippled by disorders that affect quality of life, of which there are no other solutions. But I don't think it'll ever expand beyond that. At least probably not in our lifetime. We're still a long way from recreational cybernetics.
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Western Mai Puva
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Postby Western Mai Puva » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:40 pm

I would do it. I think this is a great innovation.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:45 pm

Region of Dwipantara wrote:If someone can correct and control these signals with a machine, you can actually say a permanent goodbye to:
  • Depression,
  • Insomnia,
  • Memory loss
  • Hearing loss,
  • Blindness,
  • Paralysis,
  • Extreme Pain,
  • Seizures,
  • Anxiety,
  • Strokes,
  • Brain damage,
  • and even Addiction.

Huge if, since a ton of these are poorly understood phenomenon (and strokes are when blood vessels clot and burst, so we'll still get those)

Region of Dwipantara wrote:Musk did not present any scientific data to support his claims about the pigs or the devices.

let's not count our chickens before they hatch lol
Last edited by Senkaku on Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:49 pm

AI is an existential threat. This is a threat to freedom.

It's also on a par with Edison electrocuting an elephant for publicity.
Last edited by An Alan Smithee Nation on Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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All Wild Things
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Postby All Wild Things » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:54 pm

Maybe Google will give you one for free, provided you accept adverts, and give them access to your location.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:21 am

I, for one, welcome our new cyborg overlords.



But also, this is good. Go science!
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:35 am

Ah. My depression and insomnia feel better already!
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Region of Dwipantara
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Postby Region of Dwipantara » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:48 am

All Wild Things wrote:Maybe Google will give you one for free, provided you accept adverts, and give them access to your location.

"Nudging" has been today's form of advertising, using your data to nudge you into buying a product through various kinds of psychology-based methods. But who cares about advertising methods when you have direct access to a consumer's brain?

Neuralink's effort to cure brain-related disorders are obviously great. But after that is problematic, though. We will probably still have to wait until 2040-50 before human brain and consciousness is mapped out and can be fully linked into the internet, at which point people who adopted the technology will have a massive competitive advantage over those who don't. Then Musk can finally trigger a secret program in the Neuralink, gaining full control over all the world's population, establish the hive mind and become God.

Also don't forget, currently the device 1) have only been tested on pigs and 2) is expensive as hell, afaik one will cost you USD 500,000. Obviously it will be marketed to patients with serious neurological disorder first, but they said that the goal is to make it affordable to everyone. Like a phone, maybe.

Senkaku wrote:Huge if, since a ton of these are poorly understood phenomenon (and strokes are when blood vessels clot and burst, so we'll still get those)

About the stroke, that's Musk's words, not mine. I don't really have too much info on the detail, though.
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SatoSere
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Postby SatoSere » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:57 am

Hail the Cyborg Empire! All hail Comrade Elon Musk! Yeah I prefer depression and insomnia over the lack of privacy and lack of autonomy.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:07 am

Region of Dwipantara wrote:Also don't forget, currently the device 1) have only been tested on pigs and 2) is expensive as hell, afaik one will cost you USD 500,000. Obviously it will be marketed to patients with serious neurological disorder first, but they said that the goal is to make it affordable to everyone. Like a phone, maybe.


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Fascist PRUESSENS
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Postby Fascist PRUESSENS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:10 am

People keep saying that this is the mark of the beast. Is this true?
a

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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:15 am

This seems like a decent step forward. As many have pointed out though, privacy is a concern.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:27 am

Fascist PRUESSENS wrote:People keep saying that this is the mark of the beast. Is this true?


Do you believe the Book of Revelations is the word of God? Then Yes, this and many other things are marks of the Beast.
Do you believe Revelations recounts a drug or psychotic episode? Then No, "mark of the Beast" is nonsense.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:46 am

Nuroblav wrote:This seems like a decent step forward. As many have pointed out though, privacy is a concern.


People seem willing to trade away a good proportion of their privacy, for ease of communication and a better social life.
I expect they would trade away what's left for cognitive enhancement and instant access to vast stores of information.

I guess some will refuse; opting to be sick, stupid and poor instead. I'm more concerned that a good quality chip be available to everyone for free, than requiring everyone to have one as a condition of living in society.

For the "mind control" option, some kind of veto chip that prevents certain behaviors could be a valid alternative to prison. It would serve the 'preventative' aspect quite well, but I wouldn't want it to apply the 'punishment' aspect. The 'rehabilitation' aspect ... well I'm not sure, but anyway rehabilitation while out of prison is preferable to attempting rehabilitation in prison.
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Diahon
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Postby Diahon » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:58 am

To answer the poll: Yes.

If that thing can put my brain on eternal happiness, or just kill me outright, that would be nice. Either way, the world around me would mean jack and shit to me.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:59 am

I suppose it is what happens when a post graduate degree is not enough anymore to get a really good job, you have to resort to cognitive enhancement. It becomes an arms race of who can afford the best augmentations.
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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:03 am

If these brain chips are as good as potato chips then I'll probably buy a bag of them every week.

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Juristonia
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Postby Juristonia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:12 am

Region of Dwipantara wrote:Musk did not present any scientific data to support his claims about the pigs or the devices.

Shocker.

Sounds great, theoretically.
In reality, it sounds about as likely as seeing pink unicorns wave-boarding across rainbows.

Also, fuck trusting shoving anything in my head that involves Musk in any way. :lol2:
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Postby Page » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:20 am

I would be open to using this kind of technology but not in the capitalist and authoritarian society we live in. Once we accomplish a resource based economy and rid society of tyrants there will be a good opportunity to use this tech. But definitely not when it's made by capitalists and used to advance the state's interests.
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Mestovakia
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Postby Mestovakia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:24 am

Good soldiers follow orders

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New yugoslavaia
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Postby New yugoslavaia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:24 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Fascist PRUESSENS wrote:People keep saying that this is the mark of the beast. Is this true?


Do you believe the Book of Revelations is the word of God? Then Yes, this and many other things are marks of the Beast.
Do you believe Revelations recounts a drug or psychotic episode? Then No, "mark of the Beast" is nonsense.


Remember that those sorts of Christians thought that barcodes were the mark of the beast.

It's not the mark of the beast. It's just a new piece of tech.
Doesn't stop it from potentially being abused though.
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Postby New yugoslavaia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 am

Mestovakia wrote:Good soldiers follow orders


Who are these "soldiers" you refer to?
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How the hell did this happen?
Well...we don't actually know. Sure, there's factbooks and stuff, but they don't really matter because the owner of this account is a lazy, unproductive, indecisive loser who may or may not have a thing for half human hybrids, big mechs and even bigger ships.
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