In defense of Liberal Marxism

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

You’re dumb and ignorant.

yeah okay brainlet that thinks china is communist

Well, they’re Maoist, but the difference is very small, however it is there.
And have you ever heard of the Great Purge?

[Stylan]

As much as I like Bernie he doesn’t know anything about socialism nor communism, he just says dumb stuff that makes it harder for him to get elected.

Actually, the stuff he says is quite smart. More intelligent than what Trump spews on a daily basis, and even more intelligent than Biden. And shockingly, its made it easier for him to get elected. His only main obstacle to victory is the DNC establishment. Even among working class Republicans, he is well respected, and he has earned that respect without diverging a single iota from progressivism.

something something Stalin tried to step down and the party refused to let him four times something something

Yeah, he probably did it for show and had his goons hold the party's families at gunpoint or something. Just like that time he unpersoned the first man to stop clapping and sit down after he was introduced before a speech.

In case of this actually happening, it would be very good, as the proles could revolt against their vanguard party and establish communism. Anyway that doesn't happen.

Doesn't happen because the party gets addicted to its own fucking power. You cannot squeeze communism or socialism out of fascism, not even red fascism.

Because if Lenin lived 1000+ years with Stalin and co. the USSR would be a full communist state by 2070.

I very much doubt that.

Mao almost reached full communism btw, would you like links on that?

No, because I already know it would be full of shit, just like the sources that say Kim Jong Il golfed a perfect game on his first try. And for the same reasons.

It's literally from wikipedia, and also do you really believe that CIA propaganda?

Red fascism lmao

Anyway here ya go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_commune

[Cisairse]

Communists should oppose welfare

Why do you say that?

Welfare pacifies workers and weakens the labor movement

Source: Bordiga

[Stylan]

Why do you say that?

Welfare pacifies workers and weakens the labor movement

Source: Bordiga

Based Bordiga reader.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Have you turned into an anarchist now?

No; my post was meant to be interpreted philosophically, not literally.

In a liberal system, such as that which I espouse, every person is responsible for their own governance by virtue of being involved in decision making, even when their own absolute influence over policy may be small. In this sense, the generic "I" does govern the generic "myself," although via various state apparatus which implement actual policies. In this way, totalitarianism is avoided, but if such a situation arises (such as invasion) to require guidance over productive forces such guidance is available (assuming the populace as a whole would seek self-perpetuation over foreign annexation, which can be safely assumed).

Listen, I agree with all that, I just want that without being communist.

[Stylan]

No; my post was meant to be interpreted philosophically, not literally.

In a liberal system, such as that which I espouse, every person is responsible for their own governance by virtue of being involved in decision making, even when their own absolute influence over policy may be small. In this sense, the generic "I" does govern the generic "myself," although via various state apparatus which implement actual policies. In this way, totalitarianism is avoided, but if such a situation arises (such as invasion) to require guidance over productive forces such guidance is available (assuming the populace as a whole would seek self-perpetuation over foreign annexation, which can be safely assumed).

Listen, I agree with all that, I just want that without being communist.

Do you understand what communism is? Not an insult, just genuinely asking.

[Cisairse]

No; my post was meant to be interpreted philosophically, not literally.

In a liberal system, such as that which I espouse, every person is responsible for their own governance by virtue of being involved in decision making, even when their own absolute influence over policy may be small. In this sense, the generic "I" does govern the generic "myself," although via various state apparatus which implement actual policies. In this way, totalitarianism is avoided, but if such a situation arises (such as invasion) to require guidance over productive forces such guidance is available (assuming the populace as a whole would seek self-perpetuation over foreign annexation, which can be safely assumed).

Listen, I agree with all that, I just want that without being communist.

Then you want lies

[Ravenstva]

yeah okay brainlet that thinks china is communist

Well, they’re Maoist, but the difference is very small, however it is there.
And have you ever heard of the Great Purge?

No they're Dengist, China suppresses Maoists in its own population.
And yes I have, have you ever heard of what communism is?

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

As much as I like Bernie he doesn’t know anything about socialism nor communism, he just says dumb stuff that makes it harder for him to get elected.

Actually, the stuff he says is quite smart. More intelligent than what Trump spews on a daily basis, and even more intelligent than Biden. And shockingly, its made it easier for him to get elected. His only main obstacle to victory is the DNC establishment. Even among working class Republicans, he is well respected, and he has earned that respect without diverging a single iota from progressivism.

something something Stalin tried to step down and the party refused to let him four times something something

Yeah, he probably did it for show and had his goons hold the party's families at gunpoint or something. Just like that time he unpersoned the first man to stop clapping and sit down after he was introduced before a speech.

In case of this actually happening, it would be very good, as the proles could revolt against their vanguard party and establish communism. Anyway that doesn't happen.

Doesn't happen because the party gets addicted to its own fucking power. You cannot squeeze communism or socialism out of fascism, not even red fascism.

Because if Lenin lived 1000+ years with Stalin and co. the USSR would be a full communist state by 2070.

I very much doubt that.

Mao almost reached full communism btw, would you like links on that?

No, because I already know it would be full of shit, just like the sources that say Kim Jong Il golfed a perfect game on his first try. And for the same reasons.

True, I don’t know where Biden’s head is, I don’t think he knows himself neither. But my point is that he addresses himself as a socialist when he isn’t, and a lot of Americans hate socialism.

[Stylan]

Well, they’re Maoist, but the difference is very small, however it is there.
And have you ever heard of the Great Purge?

No they're Dengist, China suppresses Maoists in its own population.
And yes I have, have you ever heard of what communism is?

Don't forget Prole the Great Purges killed 500 gazillion and took away innocent bankers castles and ponies

Also I have mixed feelings on China. I don't really love it, but I don't "strongly condemn" it either. Just leave the Chinese alone.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Listen, I agree with all that, I just want that without being communist.

Then you want lies

You did it again, you said your way of thinking is the only right way of thinking, now, I don’t want to compare you to people like Hitler and Stalin, but...

[Stylan]

Then you want lies

You did it again, you said your way of thinking is the only right way of thinking, now, I don’t want to compare you to people like Hitler and Stalin, but...

Do you understand communism?

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Well, they’re Maoist, but the difference is very small, however it is there.
And have you ever heard of the Great Purge?

No they're Dengist, China suppresses Maoists in its own population.
And yes I have, have you ever heard of what communism is?

Yes, it’s an ideology that socialises consumption and production, and I like how you didn’t comment any further on the Great Purge, it’s ever Stalinists big weakness.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

You did it again, you said your way of thinking is the only right way of thinking, now, I don’t want to compare you to people like Hitler and Stalin, but...

Do you understand communism?

Yes, but he said his way of thinking was the only way, so did Stalin and Hitler, although this person is nothing close to them.

[Ravenstva]

No they're Dengist, China suppresses Maoists in its own population.
And yes I have, have you ever heard of what communism is?

Yes, it’s an ideology that socialises consumption and production, and I like how you didn’t comment any further on the Great Purge, it’s ever Stalinists big weakness.

firstly, your definition is wrong.
secondly, I'm a Titoist but the purges were epic.

[Stylan]

No they're Dengist, China suppresses Maoists in its own population.
And yes I have, have you ever heard of what communism is?

Yes, it’s an ideology that socialises consumption and production, and I like how you didn’t comment any further on the Great Purge, it’s ever Stalinists big weakness.

I'm not a Stalinist but I defend Stalin.

Do you understand communism?

Yes, but he said his way of thinking was the only way, so did Stalin and Hitler, although this person is nothing close to them.

I don't think Stalin said his way of thinking was the only way

[Stylan]

Yes, it’s an ideology that socialises consumption and production, and I like how you didn’t comment any further on the Great Purge, it’s ever Stalinists big weakness.

firstly, your definition is wrong.
secondly, I'm a Titoist but the purges were epic.

lmfao

Also market socialism is meh

[Cisairse]

Then you want lies

You did it again, you said your way of thinking is the only right way of thinking, now, I don’t want to compare you to people like Hitler and Stalin, but...

Listen, I'm not going to restate hundreds of books each containing hundreds or thousands of pages to you, I'm just going to tell you to read them

Specifically Capital

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Yes, it’s an ideology that socialises consumption and production, and I like how you didn’t comment any further on the Great Purge, it’s ever Stalinists big weakness.

I'm not a Stalinist but I defend Stalin.

Yes, but he said his way of thinking was the only way, so did Stalin and Hitler, although this person is nothing close to them.

I don't think Stalin said his way of thinking was the only way

I see no point in defending Stalin, he was probably a nice man, but he had a lot of people’s blood on his hands.

Yes, it’s an ideology that socialises consumption and production, and I like how you didn’t comment any further on the Great Purge, it’s ever Stalinists big weakness.

firstly, your definition is wrong.
secondly, I'm a Titoist but the purges were epic.

Well, a lot of people died, but other than that, yes, they’re were epic.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

You did it again, you said your way of thinking is the only right way of thinking, now, I don’t want to compare you to people like Hitler and Stalin, but...

Listen, I'm not going to restate hundreds of books each containing hundreds or thousands of pages to you, I'm just going to tell you to read them

Specifically Capital

I don’t think your ways of thinking is horrible, I just slightly disagree with it, and I strongly disagree with the fact that you say it’s the only true way of thinking.

[Ravenstva]

firstly, your definition is wrong.
secondly, I'm a Titoist but the purges were epic.

Also market socialism is meh

dont care, didn't ask plus you're stinky

[Kustonia]

You did it again, you said your way of thinking is the only right way of thinking, now, I don’t want to compare you to people like Hitler and Stalin, but...

Listen, I'm not going to restate hundreds of books each containing hundreds or thousands of pages to you, I'm just going to tell you to read them

Specifically Capital

We've heard Marx's theories. We don't need you to be part of the echo chamber. What we do need from you is specific historical examples.

[Cisairse]

Listen, I'm not going to restate hundreds of books each containing hundreds or thousands of pages to you, I'm just going to tell you to read them

Specifically Capital

We've heard Marx's theories. We don't need you to be part of the echo chamber. What we do need from you is specific historical examples.

Capital is full of them

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Hey, I gtg, it was nice talking with you all, hope you’ll all have wonderful lives, goodbye!

[Grenartia]

communism has failed everytime its been tried.

It was arguably never truly tried in the first place. As much as the tankies would love you to believe otherwise.

Unlike capitalism my proposal ensures freedom for mankind

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

Freedom to oppress, exploit, and steal from your workers should not exist.
Freedom to scam consumers should not exist.

If that is what capitalists call freedom, then 1984 has already happened.

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

Not freedom lol

Tankies have no room to lecture anyone about a lack of freedom.

I mean, he isn’t gonna socialise production, so he isn’t a socialist

Except for that whole thing where he has literally advanced legislation to socialize the means of production (and without state ownership, no less!).

"freedom"

There is no freedom under capitalism, merely a higher place on the plantation.

Who would you prefer to rule you, Trump or Stalin?

Neither. And I'll fight against them both.

Can't do that if most of the workers aren't in the party and also not eligible to join it.



A statement which has fundamentally elitist and classist overtones that even you can't deny.



Absolutely false.



It shouldn't fucking take 70 fucking years to 'transition into communism', especially as a totalitarian state. At a certain point, it stops becoming a question of whether the CPSU was too fucking incompetent to transition into communism, and more about whether or not they actually wanted to in the first place.



Believe it or not, but it is possible, and even desirable, to completely skip capitalism altogether. You can, in fact, go from feudalism to socialism to communism. And with minimal totalitarian bullshit (i.e., none at all), too!

No you can't, if you are following Marx's theories you will understand it is a complete impossibility to transfer from feudalism to communism.

Marx wasn't infallible, as much as tankies consider that to be heresy for a leftist to say. For a bunch of people who rightfully criticize the shit out of "Great Man" history, you sure love to unironically follow it when it comes to Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and whichever one of Stalin's puppets you currently stan this week.

Do you want me to start quoting Marx and Engels at you? lol

Do you want me to go full Frankenstein and resurrect Marx and Engels so they can lecture you about why authoritarianism is inherently shit?

And yeah, the USSR literally had a great standard of living,

At the expense of Eastern Europe, Central Asia, China, Indochina...

Same capitalist bullshit as the US, different paint scheme.

and were a global superpower after being a "Shithole country" for like 300 years.

And they could probably have outcompeted the US into a collapse if they hadn't done an authoritarianism. Hell, their authoritarianism is probably the number one factor in the rise of fascism in the first place.

Perhaps there are classist elements in that, I mean Lenin was a lawyer, so he was wealthier than a lot of Russians, but as long as we aren't bourgeoisie we will be fine.

>lawyer
>not bougey

FUCKING KEK

My god, I haven't laughed so hard in ages.

Now if you mean in the U.S. we can go from capitalism to communism, you may be correct, I have reservations about this though as undoubtedly the world elite would conspire against that, and food production would start to shrink, pensions would dry up etc etc. A brief transition stage is essential, and by brief I mean about 100-200 years.

Doesn't sound so brief to me. Hell, it sounds like a fucking eternity. Even the last 4 years have felt like an eternity. And your idea of 'communism' sounds pretty shit to me. So shit, in fact, that living under capitalist exploitation might be preferable.