by Cisairse » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:55 pm
by Ravenstva » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:05 pm
by Zeritae » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:07 pm
Zurkerx wrote:Agarntrop wrote:snip
One already exists: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=484632&start=25
And seeing we're over the page limit, I #ilock now. We can't let the umm, super virus get out now.
by Khoronzon » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:08 pm
The world is no longer as it once was, moulded beyond recognition by the hands of its coming masters. Humanity is faced with a simple choice: evolve, or die.
by Bombadil » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:10 pm
by Stylan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:11 pm
Bombadil wrote:There's a guy who decided to give everyone in his company the same salary, including himself, and by doing so managed to give everyone $70K a year from receptionist to executive. Rush Limbaugh said he hoped that company would fail because socialism doesn't work, the company has since grown 10x because everyone feels in it together, equal and valued.
There may be examples of unbridled capitalism driving stronger growth but growth isn't the be all and end all and, frankly, 70K is more than enough for anyone especially if it makes for a pleasant, equally owned, working environment.
It's possible, and probably better.
by Grenartia » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:14 pm
Stylan wrote:Bombadil wrote:There's a guy who decided to give everyone in his company the same salary, including himself, and by doing so managed to give everyone $70K a year from receptionist to executive. Rush Limbaugh said he hoped that company would fail because socialism doesn't work, the company has since grown 10x because everyone feels in it together, equal and valued.
There may be examples of unbridled capitalism driving stronger growth but growth isn't the be all and end all and, frankly, 70K is more than enough for anyone especially if it makes for a pleasant, equally owned, working environment.
It's possible, and probably better.
socialism isn't when everyone is paid the same
by Bombadil » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:16 pm
Stylan wrote:Bombadil wrote:There's a guy who decided to give everyone in his company the same salary, including himself, and by doing so managed to give everyone $70K a year from receptionist to executive. Rush Limbaugh said he hoped that company would fail because socialism doesn't work, the company has since grown 10x because everyone feels in it together, equal and valued.
There may be examples of unbridled capitalism driving stronger growth but growth isn't the be all and end all and, frankly, 70K is more than enough for anyone especially if it makes for a pleasant, equally owned, working environment.
It's possible, and probably better.
socialism isn't when everyone is paid the same
by Cisairse » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:16 pm
Bombadil wrote:There's a guy who decided to give everyone in his company the same salary, including himself, and by doing so managed to give everyone $70K a year from receptionist to executive. Rush Limbaugh said he hoped that company would fail because socialism doesn't work, the company has since grown 10x because everyone feels in it together, equal and valued.
There may be examples of unbridled capitalism driving stronger growth but growth isn't the be all and end all and, frankly, 70K is more than enough for anyone especially if it makes for a pleasant, equally owned, working environment.
It's possible, and probably better.
by Stylan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:17 pm
by Stylan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:18 pm
Bombadil wrote:Stylan wrote:socialism isn't when everyone is paid the same
Sure it is, everyone has equal ownership as a community, and equal reward.. within that company it's a socialist means of working. It could easily be extended, GDP per person in the US is some 62K, and if everyone was equally invested in raising that then I imagine economies would move along nicely.
'Socialism doesn't work' is bullshit spouted by vested interests who buy influence to spread that message.
by Ravenstva » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:19 pm
by Stylan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:20 pm
by Grenartia » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:21 pm
Stylan wrote:Grenartia wrote:
Neither is it when the government owns everything.
I don't think that, do you assume that because I call myself a tankie?
Also, that phrase is a tad ubiquitous, because if the state/government are the workers, and the workers are the state, and the state owns everything, that is very much Marxist in practice and socialist.
by Ravenstva » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:21 pm
Stylan wrote:Ravenstva wrote:Socialism is when the government does stuff. The more stuff it does, the more socialister it is, and when it does a real lot of stuff then its communism.
What's that Cenk Uyghur quote again?
"Socialism is when the government does some stuff, and the private sector does some stuff. Communism is when the government does everything. The U.S. is a socialist state. It won't lead to Marxism."
- Cenk Uyghur
by Socialist States of Ludistan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:21 pm
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:22 pm
Bombadil wrote:Stylan wrote:socialism isn't when everyone is paid the same
Sure it is, everyone has equal ownership as a community, and equal reward.. within that company it's a socialist means of working. It could easily be extended, GDP per person in the US is some 62K, and if everyone was equally invested in raising that then I imagine economies would move along nicely.
'Socialism doesn't work' is bullshit spouted by vested interests who buy influence to spread that message.
by Bombadil » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:22 pm
Stylan wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Sure it is, everyone has equal ownership as a community, and equal reward.. within that company it's a socialist means of working. It could easily be extended, GDP per person in the US is some 62K, and if everyone was equally invested in raising that then I imagine economies would move along nicely.
'Socialism doesn't work' is bullshit spouted by vested interests who buy influence to spread that message.
I'm a tankie mate. I am not opposed to socialism.
That isn't socialism; we need a vanguard party, a brief transition state before going into post-scarcity full communism.
by Cisairse » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:22 pm
Socialist States of Ludistan wrote:Not only do I believe nothing you said was right, you also say that the way you think is the only right way to think. I can name a lot of bad people who thought that way, and no, a worker in a capitalist society is not a slave, the US just has an interesting way of going with capitalism. My honest opinion? Your idea is cringe, and the only people who would approve of it are edgy teenagers who know nothing about Stalin but praise him anyways.
by Grenartia » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:22 pm
Stylan wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Sure it is, everyone has equal ownership as a community, and equal reward.. within that company it's a socialist means of working. It could easily be extended, GDP per person in the US is some 62K, and if everyone was equally invested in raising that then I imagine economies would move along nicely.
'Socialism doesn't work' is bullshit spouted by vested interests who buy influence to spread that message.
I'm a tankie mate. I am not opposed to socialism.
That isn't socialism; we need a vanguard party, a brief transition state before going into post-scarcity full communism.
by Kowani » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:23 pm
Stylan wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Sure it is, everyone has equal ownership as a community, and equal reward.. within that company it's a socialist means of working. It could easily be extended, GDP per person in the US is some 62K, and if everyone was equally invested in raising that then I imagine economies would move along nicely.
'Socialism doesn't work' is bullshit spouted by vested interests who buy influence to spread that message.
I'm a tankie mate. I am not opposed to socialism.
That isn't socialism; we need a vanguard party, a brief transition state before going into post-scarcity full communism.
by Cisairse » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:23 pm
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Sure it is, everyone has equal ownership as a community, and equal reward.. within that company it's a socialist means of working. It could easily be extended, GDP per person in the US is some 62K, and if everyone was equally invested in raising that then I imagine economies would move along nicely.
'Socialism doesn't work' is bullshit spouted by vested interests who buy influence to spread that message.
Wealth isn't income. Wealth is made of income you save or invest.
I really wonder what Marx would make of 401(k)'s and online investing. His beloved proletariat owning shares in the means of production. It's a viable model for future communism, but only if everyone somehow has equivalent investment wealth.
by Socialist States of Ludistan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:24 pm
Bombadil wrote:There's a guy who decided to give everyone in his company the same salary, including himself, and by doing so managed to give everyone $70K a year from receptionist to executive. Rush Limbaugh said he hoped that company would fail because socialism doesn't work, the company has since grown 10x because everyone feels in it together, equal and valued.
There may be examples of unbridled capitalism driving stronger growth but growth isn't the be all and end all and, frankly, 70K is more than enough for anyone especially if it makes for a pleasant, equally owned, working environment.
It's possible, and probably better.
by Stylan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:24 pm
Grenartia wrote:Stylan wrote:I don't think that, do you assume that because I call myself a tankie?
Also, that phrase is a tad ubiquitous, because if the state/government are the workers, and the workers are the state, and the state owns everything, that is very much Marxist in practice and socialist.
The workers aren't the state if there is only one party and no free and fair elections. And even if there were no such thing as political repression in the USSR and its puppets, state ownership of the means of production is vastly different from (arguably inefficient and inferior to) the workers directly owning the MoP.
Dictatorship of the Proletariat wasn't meant to be taken literally (not that the Soviet-aligned dictatorships were ever truly of the proletariat in the first place), and 1984 isn't an instruction manual.
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