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French Fracas over female frontage

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Benuty
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French Fracas over female frontage

Postby Benuty » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:19 pm

Source:BBC News-Topless Sunbathing defended by French Interior Minister

News Piece Information

Topless sunbathing defended by French interior minister

26 August 2020
France's interior minister has defended topless sunbathing after police asked a group of women on a Mediterranean beach to cover up.

The three were approached by officers on the beach in Sainte-Marie-La-Mer following a complaint from a holidaying family.

The incident generated a huge backlash against the officers.

Backing the women, the minister, Gérald Darmanin, tweeted: "Freedom is a precious commodity".

He said it was wrong the women were asked to put on clothing.

A press release posted on Facebook by the Pyrenees-Orientales police said the incident happened last week.

Two officers asked three people on the beach to cover their chests, after a request from a family concerned about children present.

A brief history of the nipple
The freedom to be topless
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"Guided by a desire for appeasement, the police asked the people concerned if they would agree to cover their chest after they explained the reason for their approach," it said.

"No municipal order forbids this practice [topless sunbathing] in Sainte-Marie-la-Mer."

Their action prompted a wave of criticism online. Some questioned a wave of "prudishness" sweeping France, while others questioned if the practice was now banned.
Police spokeswoman Lt Col Maddy Scheurer blamed the "clumsiness" of the two officers for the incident. "You will always see me in uniform," she wrote, "but the practice of topless tanning is allowed at the beach of Sainte-Marie-la-Mer."

While Mr Darmanin said it was wrong that the women were asked to cover up, he said it was "normal for the administration to recognise its mistakes".

It is not illegal to sunbathe topless in France, although local authorities can ban the practice with directives about clothing.

A survey by the website VieHealthy in 2019 showed the practice is less common in France now than it was in the past, and is less common than in other European countries.

The survey said 22% of French women asked had sunbathed topless, compared with 48% of Spanish women and 34% of Germans.


Opinion:
A nice change of pace from the endless stewing at this side of the Atlantic before the November showdown. I was simply bored, and found out this piece online. Either way I don't have much of an opinion on it since it isn't exactly a controversial issue, well I suppose for the French it is. What say you oh unleavened, and leavened masses of NSG?
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:42 pm

If the locality is fine with it, I suppose it's fine.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:45 pm

This is actually an equality issue.

If men are allowed to go topless, women should be allowed as well.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:49 pm

It's difficult to sunbathe in France these days. If you wear too little, the police will come. If you wear too much, the police will also come.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:49 pm

Galloism wrote:This is actually an equality issue.

If men are allowed to go topless, women should be allowed as well.

Indeed. Frankly it's time we in europe finally abandon the uncivilized notions of restricting toplessness based on sexuality and instead go to a more reasonable model of a three tiered system based on looks.
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:50 pm

Galloism wrote:This is actually an equality issue.

If men are allowed to go topless, women should be allowed as well.

Hear, hear.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Latvijas Otra Republika
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:54 pm

No one likes spoilsports
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:04 pm

If women want to sunbath topless? It doesn’t bother me. If it did; I wouldn’t look at them or move further down.
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Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:06 pm

Galloism wrote:This is actually an equality issue.

If men are allowed to go topless, women should be allowed as well.


You have it backwards.
Nobody should be allowed to go topless.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:10 pm

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
Galloism wrote:This is actually an equality issue.

If men are allowed to go topless, women should be allowed as well.


You have it backwards.
Nobody should be allowed to go topless.

Also an equality option.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:13 pm

Galloism wrote:
Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
You have it backwards.
Nobody should be allowed to go topless.

Also an equality option.


Or we can just let the local culture deal with that.
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"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:15 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Galloism wrote:Also an equality option.


Or we can just let the local culture deal with that.

Nah.

Culture as a set of practices and norms often involves illogical and unequal things. When found, those specific things should be challenged.
Last edited by Galloism on Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:16 pm

Yeah it shouldn't be a problem
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:19 pm

Total non-issue etc

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Postby Jabberwocky » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:19 pm

As long as they wore masks and maintained social distancing!
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Glorious Hong Kong
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Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:24 pm

What prudish culture do the complainants hail from? America? The Middle East? Freedom of expression is absolute. Americans and Muslims have no right to tell Europeans what they can and can't wear. They're the ones who tend to get really triggered and uptight over a bit of skin and see sex, degeneracy, perversion, pedophilia, and pornography even when it doesn't exist.
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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:36 pm

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:What prudish culture do the complainants hail from? America? The Middle East? Freedom of expression is absolute. Americans and Muslims have no right to tell Europeans what they can and can't wear. They're the ones who tend to get really triggered and uptight over a bit of skin and see sex, degeneracy, perversion, pedophilia, and pornography even when it doesn't exist.

Dee Snider said something that the last sentence reminds me of - although I can't find the exact quote. To summarise things: if you're looking for sex, degeneracy, perversion, pedophilia, and pornography, then sex, degeneracy, perversion, pedophilia, and pornography is what you'll find. Perhaps the kind of people that do this sort of thing are trying to find things that would offend them, rather than what wouldn't.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:36 pm

Galloism wrote:This is actually an equality issue.

If men are allowed to go topless, women should be allowed as well.

its the law in New York, definitely improves the quality of our public beaches.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:10 pm

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:What prudish culture do the complainants hail from? America? The Middle East? Freedom of expression is absolute. Americans and Muslims have no right to tell Europeans what they can and can't wear. They're the ones who tend to get really triggered and uptight over a bit of skin and see sex, degeneracy, perversion, pedophilia, and pornography even when it doesn't exist.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the French Burka Ban?
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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:21 pm

Pffft, how harmless. Meanhwile in Germany...
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:28 pm

Not really any worse than male toplessness, and it's time we stop pretending it is.
Of course I take rather the opposite view, that no one should take their shirt off in public, except that nursing mothers can remove what clothing needs to be to feed their babies.
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Soiled fruit roll ups
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Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:33 pm

Diopolis wrote:Not really any worse than male toplessness, and it's time we stop pretending it is.
Of course I take rather the opposite view, that no one should take their shirt off in public, except that nursing mothers can remove what clothing needs to be to feed their babies.


It is worse and they're both bad.
Nursing mothers can have a room to do that in.
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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:36 pm

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Not really any worse than male toplessness, and it's time we stop pretending it is.
Of course I take rather the opposite view, that no one should take their shirt off in public, except that nursing mothers can remove what clothing needs to be to feed their babies.


It is worse and they're both bad.
Nursing mothers can have a room to do that in.


How exactly is it worse?
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:37 pm

I'm inclined towards agreeing with Galloism, but I have some caveats.

If breasts are not an inherently sexual part of a womans body, then touching them should surely be regarded as akin to touching someone on the arm.

Sexual in some contexts but not in others. Reaching out to grab someone by the arm might be rude, but would not be regarded as a sexual assault in most contexts. Doing so to their ass or tits on the other hand...

It seems though that breasts are an inherently sexual area when convenient for women, and not inherently sexual when convenient for women.

If they are inherently sexual, then there is a rationale for demanding they be covered. If they aren't, then there isn't a rational for reacting like they are.

The approach seems to be cognitive dissonance where what is convenient for women is what is decided on the matter.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:38 pm

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Not really any worse than male toplessness, and it's time we stop pretending it is.
Of course I take rather the opposite view, that no one should take their shirt off in public, except that nursing mothers can remove what clothing needs to be to feed their babies.


It is worse and they're both bad.

No, it's not worse.
Nursing mothers can have a room to do that in.

If a room is provided reasonably nearby, then sure. If no room is provided then there's nothing wrong with nursing in public.
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