Violence Outbreak in Kenosha WI

[Greed and Death]

I may have been wrong about Wisconsin's duty to retreat, or he is.

He says the act of retreating "resets" the status of initiator of force. If the initiator tries to run, someone who pursues them becomes the initiator of any further violence.

I thought there might be some legitimacy in chasing Rittenhouse to capture or restrain him, but it seems there's not. In retrospect that's fair enough: you shouldn't have to trust the good intentions of some other civilian who says all they want is to disarm and capture you. And particularly with a group of people (any one of them could harm you when you're captured).

I don't think you got it wrong. I think the duty to retreat still applies (where possible) but it applies to everyone, initiator or victim. Which would be good, considering in a lot of confrontations both sides think "the other one started it".

So here is how citizen's arrest and self defense interact. There may have been an argument that a citizen's arrest of Rittenhouse would be reasonable. However, there is no duty to submit to a citizen's arrest, so that would not remove his right to defend himself. It is also unlikely they would view that as a citizen's arrest as the audio is more along the lines of beat his ass, get him and not hey you stop until the police get here.

[Greed and Death]

Yes. Domestic violence, battery, and strangulation iirc.

So a history of Domestic abuse and violence likely from whenever he got mad about something.

Well watching one of your fellow rioters get shot is certainly something that will make people angry.

Well, in the moment you could only assume that someone pointing their gun at your head while you’re on the ground isn’t your friend.

It wasn’t til after when he said the quiet part out loud, and said his one regret that he “didn’t empty his entire magazine” into the kid.

Yep he was just trying to peacefully disarm him and truly wished no ill will towards the teenager.

Funny thing is a different militia guy came and saved his life by applying a tourniquet.

[Thermodolia]

I'm not outraged, just shaking my head at why they thought cuffing a man who is paralyzed was necessary.

I get that it's standard practice for cops to do that but in this case they should have used there better judgment. Cuffing a man who can't walk to a bed is nonsensical.

Is it though? He's a celebrity now. It's much harder for someone to help him escape if he's cuffed to the bed.

If people where that intent on getting him out then they’d just wheel the bed right out the front door

[Thermodolia]

Can't wait to hear about a prisoner being handcuffed during an MRI.....

We usually use other lockable "soft" restraints during such procedures, or insure the PT is going to be compliant via IV injection prior to going in.

It’s like people forget about plastic cuffs and medical restraints

[The Black Forrest]

Interesting article about the affair and it mentioned a couple of the laws. The writer also asks about what led up to the shootings. Did he provoke?, etc.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/08/ ... nse-claim/

[Galloism]

Interesting article about the affair and it mentioned a couple of the laws. The writer also asks about what led up to the shootings. Did he provoke?, etc.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/08/ ... nse-claim/

I also posted a very interesting video last page on legal analysis.

I don’t normally post YouTube videos, but it was worth it.

[Thermodolia]

Yeah, that's fair.

I've read the complaint and I've watched all four videos (two angles of each incident), and read the NYT timeline analysis.

My analysis so far strongly indicates is that he was in over his head a bad situation he never should have even been close to (and there's several people most likely who need to face child endangerment charges), but ultimately from his perspective he's the victim in this scenario, tried to retreat repeatedly, and only used force when he literally could not retreat from his attackers.

He also might have a misdemeanor weapons charge in Wisconsin for the rifle, but the law is written so badly I'm uncertain. That's not a question of action, but how the law applies.

Again yeah he was in over his head, of course I also heard he was trying to get back to the other people he was with but the police actually kept him from doing so, if so that says a whole lot about the police.

A whole lot of bad things.

Makes me wonder if the police wanted him alone so something like this could happen so they'd have the excuse to step in, in which case charging him is just to cover up their own part of the matter.

I normally wouldn't believe something so tinfoil hattish but let's face it, stuff like this gives the police an out to shut down the riots.

Wouldn’t surprise me

[Kubra]

In any case, I'm sure we can all agree that taking a gun to a protest to play militia ain't a good way to keep peace.

Probably not, no. He shouldn't have been there.

But the fact that he might be illegally carrying a weapon (law is unclear) doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to self defense.

People who are saying he's a terrorist whatever whatever are flat out wrong.

People are saying he's the hero we need are flat out wrong.

He's a dumb ass kid who went somewhere he shouldn't be armed in a way he shouldn't be. That's it.

I ain't even talking about the kid, just in general.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

He says the act of retreating "resets" the status of initiator of force. If the initiator tries to run, someone who pursues them becomes the initiator of any further violence.

I thought there might be some legitimacy in chasing Rittenhouse to capture or restrain him, but it seems there's not. In retrospect that's fair enough: you shouldn't have to trust the good intentions of some other civilian who says all they want is to disarm and capture you. And particularly with a group of people (any one of them could harm you when you're captured).

I don't think you got it wrong. I think the duty to retreat still applies (where possible) but it applies to everyone, initiator or victim. Which would be good, considering in a lot of confrontations both sides think "the other one started it".

So here is how citizen's arrest and self defense interact. There may have been an argument that a citizen's arrest of Rittenhouse would be reasonable. However, there is no duty to submit to a citizen's arrest, so that would not remove his right to defend himself. It is also unlikely they would view that as a citizen's arrest as the audio is more along the lines of beat his ass, get him and not hey you stop until the police get here.

Yep. Happy with that.

[San Lumen]

https://news.yahoo.com/in-wake-of-shoot ... 48050.html

In wake of shootings, Kenosha mayor backs police brass despite calls for resignations. Kenosha, Wis., Mayor John Antaramian told reporters Friday that he has no intention of requesting the resignations of Police Chief Daniel Miskinis or County Sheriff David Beth, despite calls from various civil rights groups for both men to step down. I hope this man gets a primary challenge in his next election.

[Thermodolia]

https://news.yahoo.com/in-wake-of-shootings-kenosha-mayor-backs-police-brass-despite-calls-for-resignations-011148050.html

In wake of shootings, Kenosha mayor backs police brass despite calls for resignations. Kenosha, Wis., Mayor John Antaramian told reporters Friday that he has no intention of requesting the resignations of Police Chief Daniel Miskinis or County Sheriff David Beth, despite calls from various civil rights groups for both men to step down. I hope this man gets a primary challenge in his next election.

This further proves to me that the DA is only overcharging the kid so he can walk

[San Lumen]

https://news.yahoo.com/in-wake-of-shootings-kenosha-mayor-backs-police-brass-despite-calls-for-resignations-011148050.html

In wake of shootings, Kenosha mayor backs police brass despite calls for resignations. Kenosha, Wis., Mayor John Antaramian told reporters Friday that he has no intention of requesting the resignations of Police Chief Daniel Miskinis or County Sheriff David Beth, despite calls from various civil rights groups for both men to step down. I hope this man gets a primary challenge in his next election.

This further proves to me that the DA is only overcharging the kid so he can walk

What makes you think that?

[Thermodolia]

This further proves to me that the DA is only overcharging the kid so he can walk

What makes you think that?

The mayor is backing the cops, the cops probably wanted the shooting to go down so they could intervene, the fact that the DA basically says that the kid acted in self defense, and the fact that DA’s frequently overcharge so people they like will walk while it looks like they are doing something.

Besides nobody is talking about Blake anymore which is another goal the city and the cops wanted

[San Lumen]

What makes you think that?

The mayor is backing the cops, the cops probably wanted the shooting to go down so they could intervene, the fact that the DA basically says that the kid acted in self defense, and the fact that DA’s frequently overcharge so people they like will walk while it looks like they are doing something.

Besides nobody is talking about Blake anymore which is another goal the city and the cops wanted

The mayor and DA needs to be replaced in the next election

[Thermodolia]

The mayor is backing the cops, the cops probably wanted the shooting to go down so they could intervene, the fact that the DA basically says that the kid acted in self defense, and the fact that DA’s frequently overcharge so people they like will walk while it looks like they are doing something.

Besides nobody is talking about Blake anymore which is another goal the city and the cops wanted

The mayor and DA needs to be replaced in the next election

That’s not going to do shit. It doesn’t matter if you elected the most pro-reform BLM protester you the office they won’t be able to change anything because the culture won’t allow it.

You know what happens to those who try and make changes to the police right? They get driven out or dead

[San Lumen]

The mayor and DA needs to be replaced in the next election

That’s not going to do shit. It doesn’t matter if you elected the most pro-reform BLM protester you the office they won’t be able to change anything because the culture won’t allow it.

You know what happens to those who try and make changes to the police right? They get driven out or dead

Why wouldnt culture allow it? Are you seriously suggesting the police would assassinate the mayor?

[Thermodolia]

That’s not going to do shit. It doesn’t matter if you elected the most pro-reform BLM protester you the office they won’t be able to change anything because the culture won’t allow it.

You know what happens to those who try and make changes to the police right? They get driven out or dead

Why wouldnt culture allow it? Are you seriously suggesting the police would assassinate the mayor?

Because they are corrupt group of thugs that pride themselves on the code of silence. No the police wouldn’t assassinate the mayor. They’d just decided to not protect them, ya know when some violent criminal was given the ability to break in to the mayor’s house. And they’d just drag their feet on the case.

[San Lumen]

Why wouldnt culture allow it? Are you seriously suggesting the police would assassinate the mayor?

Because they are corrupt group of thugs that pride themselves on the code of silence. No the police wouldn’t assassinate the mayor. They’d just decided to not protect them, ya know when some violent criminal was given the ability to break in to the mayor’s house. And they’d just drag their feet on the case.

and that would certainly make the community trust them after that. A DA that dragged their feet on the murder of the mayor should be removed from office.

[The Emerald Legion]

Because they are corrupt group of thugs that pride themselves on the code of silence. No the police wouldn’t assassinate the mayor. They’d just decided to not protect them, ya know when some violent criminal was given the ability to break in to the mayor’s house. And they’d just drag their feet on the case.

and that would certainly make the community trust them after that. A DA that dragged their feet on the murder of the mayor should be removed from office.

You're ignoring that this is Wisconsin. It's like the more racist Texas of the north.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I'm not outraged, just shaking my head at why they thought cuffing a man who is paralyzed was necessary.

I get that it's standard practice for cops to do that but in this case they should have used there better judgment. Cuffing a man who can't walk to a bed is nonsensical.

Is it though? He's a celebrity now. It's much harder for someone to help him escape if he's cuffed to the bed.

Couldn't they just wheel the bed out of the hospital?

[The Emerald Legion]

Is it though? He's a celebrity now. It's much harder for someone to help him escape if he's cuffed to the bed.

Couldn't they just wheel the bed out of the hospital?

They could, but that's a lot more cumbersome and attention grabbing. Especially if the dude is handcuffed to it.

[San Lumen]

and that would certainly make the community trust them after that. A DA that dragged their feet on the murder of the mayor should be removed from office.

You're ignoring that this is Wisconsin. It's like the more racist Texas of the north.

What gives you that impression? They elected an African American as Lieutenant Governor in 2018.

[The Emerald Legion]

You're ignoring that this is Wisconsin. It's like the more racist Texas of the north.

What gives you that impression? They elected an African American as Lieutenant Governor in 2018.

I know people who lived there? They outright predicted that violence would happen if protests broke out, before the violence.

[Telconi]

Because they are corrupt group of thugs that pride themselves on the code of silence. No the police wouldn’t assassinate the mayor. They’d just decided to not protect them, ya know when some violent criminal was given the ability to break in to the mayor’s house. And they’d just drag their feet on the case.

and that would certainly make the community trust them after that. A DA that dragged their feet on the murder of the mayor should be removed from office.

Sounds awfully anti-democratic of you, my dude.

[Galloism]

What makes you think that?

The mayor is backing the cops, the cops probably wanted the shooting to go down so they could intervene, the fact that the DA basically says that the kid acted in self defense, and the fact that DA’s frequently overcharge so people they like will walk while it looks like they are doing something.

Besides nobody is talking about Blake anymore which is another goal the city and the cops wanted

I mean, if we're going to go all tinfoil hat, what makes you think they expected the kid to survive?