Violence Outbreak in Kenosha WI

[Galloism]

The kid’s only known charge is failing to obey a traffic signal.

Not sure he even had that. I see stories about how there were two Kyle Rittenhouses (now) in the system.

However, as others pointed out, a search for Kyle Rittenhouse’s name on the Wisconsin Circuit Court Access website pulls up two people with the same name.

Those charges appear to be tied to Kyle Joseph Rittenhouse, who is 31 years old, in Rock County.

My link goes to The S*n, hence why I'm not sure as I generally question their credibility.

Yeah I looked at that. The 31 year old has a different middle name too.

People have been telling each other online that the kid was high, drunk and firing a gun when he was 13. That’s not true - it’s misinfo.

[Gravlen]

Yes. Domestic violence, battery, and strangulation iirc.

So a history of Domestic abuse and violence likely from whenever he got mad about something.

Well watching one of your fellow rioters get shot is certainly something that will make people angry.

His girlfriend gave an interview suggesting that he didn't see the first shooting happening, but tried to intervene to stop a percieved threat.

Of course, it'll be impossible to know what the dead man was really thinking when he got involved.

[Galloism]

So a history of Domestic abuse and violence likely from whenever he got mad about something.

Well watching one of your fellow rioters get shot is certainly something that will make people angry.

His girlfriend gave an interview suggesting that he didn't see the first shooting happening, but tried to intervene to stop a percieved threat.

Of course, it'll be impossible to know what the dead man was really thinking when he got involved.

He might actually be a legitimate victim of, if you’ll pardon the expression, the fog of war. Everyone thinking they’re doing right but all acting on limited information.

[Gravlen]

Not sure he even had that. I see stories about how there were two Kyle Rittenhouses (now) in the system.

However, as others pointed out, a search for Kyle Rittenhouse’s name on the Wisconsin Circuit Court Access website pulls up two people with the same name.

Those charges appear to be tied to Kyle Joseph Rittenhouse, who is 31 years old, in Rock County.

My link goes to The S*n, hence why I'm not sure as I generally question their credibility.

Yeah I looked at that. The 31 year old has a different middle name too.

People have been telling each other online that the kid was high, drunk and firing a gun when he was 13. That’s not true - it’s misinfo.

There's a lot of that going around in this extremely politically charged situation. I've seen fake quotes attributed to Rittenhouse too, eagerly spread by both the right and the left as they portray him as a cold-blooded killer without remorse (which is apparently laudable to one side and monstrous to the other).

This is one of those situations where I find it's best to hold back and hope that the investigation manages to get a clear picture of what happened.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Yes. Domestic violence, battery, and strangulation iirc.

So a history of Domestic abuse and violence likely from whenever he got mad about something.

Well watching one of your fellow rioters get shot is certainly something that will make people angry.

Well, in the moment you could only assume that someone pointing their gun at your head while you’re on the ground isn’t your friend.

It wasn’t til after when he said the quiet part out loud, and said his one regret that he “didn’t empty his entire magazine” into the kid.

Yep he was just trying to peacefully disarm him and truly wished no ill will towards the teenager.

I agree with Galloism that pointing a gun at someone's head is legally enough to infer they mean to kill you.

I don't agree with YOU that aiming but not shooting shows ill will towards Rittenhouse. He could have been trying to apprehend him, or to prevent him doing what he actually did (shoot with the rifle), or disarm him, OR brutalize him OR kill him. Rittenhouse is entitled in the situation to assume the worst ... but you are not.

Only actually shooting would demonstrate an intention to shoot.

[The Lone Alliance]

So a history of Domestic abuse and violence likely from whenever he got mad about something.

Well watching one of your fellow rioters get shot is certainly something that will make people angry.

His girlfriend gave an interview suggesting that he didn't see the first shooting happening, but tried to intervene to stop a percieved threat.

Of course, it'll be impossible to know what the dead man was really thinking when he got involved.

A person running away from you is a percieved threat?

How many NSG threads have we had during situations like this where a person goes "If they're running away from you they're no longer a threat and you have no right to go after them!"

And is this the same girlfriend he's been arrested for beating or is that another girlfriend?

[Galloism]

Yeah I looked at that. The 31 year old has a different middle name too.

People have been telling each other online that the kid was high, drunk and firing a gun when he was 13. That’s not true - it’s misinfo.

There's a lot of that going around in this extremely politically charged situation. I've seen fake quotes attributed to Rittenhouse too, eagerly spread by both the right and the left as they portray him as a cold-blooded killer without remorse (which is apparently laudable to one side and monstrous to the other).

This is one of those situations where I find it's best to hold back and hope that the investigation manages to get a clear picture of what happened.

Yeah, that's fair.

I've read the complaint and I've watched all four videos (two angles of each incident), and read the NYT timeline analysis.

My analysis so far strongly indicates is that he was in over his head a bad situation he never should have even been close to (and there's several people most likely who need to face child endangerment charges), but ultimately from his perspective he's the victim in this scenario, tried to retreat repeatedly, and only used force when he literally could not retreat from his attackers.

He also might have a misdemeanor weapons charge in Wisconsin for the rifle, but the law is written so badly I'm uncertain. That's not a question of action, but how the law applies.

[The Lone Alliance]

There's a lot of that going around in this extremely politically charged situation. I've seen fake quotes attributed to Rittenhouse too, eagerly spread by both the right and the left as they portray him as a cold-blooded killer without remorse (which is apparently laudable to one side and monstrous to the other).

This is one of those situations where I find it's best to hold back and hope that the investigation manages to get a clear picture of what happened.

Yeah, that's fair.

I've read the complaint and I've watched all four videos (two angles of each incident), and read the NYT timeline analysis.

My analysis so far strongly indicates is that he was in over his head a bad situation he never should have even been close to (and there's several people most likely who need to face child endangerment charges), but ultimately from his perspective he's the victim in this scenario, tried to retreat repeatedly, and only used force when he literally could not retreat from his attackers.

He also might have a misdemeanor weapons charge in Wisconsin for the rifle, but the law is written so badly I'm uncertain. That's not a question of action, but how the law applies.

Again yeah he was in over his head, of course I also heard he was trying to get back to the other people he was with but the police actually kept him from doing so, if so that says a whole lot about the police.

A whole lot of bad things.

Makes me wonder if the police wanted him alone so something like this could happen so they'd have the excuse to step in, in which case charging him is just to cover up their own part of the matter.

I normally wouldn't believe something so tinfoil hattish but let's face it, stuff like this gives the police an out to shut down the riots.

[Galloism]

Yeah, that's fair.

I've read the complaint and I've watched all four videos (two angles of each incident), and read the NYT timeline analysis.

My analysis so far strongly indicates is that he was in over his head a bad situation he never should have even been close to (and there's several people most likely who need to face child endangerment charges), but ultimately from his perspective he's the victim in this scenario, tried to retreat repeatedly, and only used force when he literally could not retreat from his attackers.

He also might have a misdemeanor weapons charge in Wisconsin for the rifle, but the law is written so badly I'm uncertain. That's not a question of action, but how the law applies.

Again yeah he was in over his head, of course I also heard he was trying to get back to the other people he was with but the police actually kept him from doing so, if so that says a whole lot about the police.

A whole lot of bad things.

If they were going to keep him there (instead of telling him to go the fuck home like they should), they never should have allowed him to get separated from them in the first place there in that situation.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So a history of Domestic abuse and violence likely from whenever he got mad about something.

Well watching one of your fellow rioters get shot is certainly something that will make people angry.

His girlfriend gave an interview suggesting that he didn't see the first shooting happening, but tried to intervene to stop a percieved threat.

Of course, it'll be impossible to know what the dead man was really thinking when he got involved.

I think there's a lesson there for anyone hearing a shooting, arriving (or just turning to face it) and then getting involved. Picking whatever side seems to be the good guy (person defending themselves) is pretty much a coin toss, because they probably both feel they're in the right.

Also don't shoot in the air. A whole lot of people who weren't watching but did hear it, have good enough reason to think you shot at them.

[Gravlen]

His girlfriend gave an interview suggesting that he didn't see the first shooting happening, but tried to intervene to stop a percieved threat.

Of course, it'll be impossible to know what the dead man was really thinking when he got involved.

A person running away from you is a percieved threat?

In the circumstances, it could be, yes.

If a mass shooter is running away from you, they can still a threat. In this case, with several gunshots being fired and people shouting that he had shot someone, it could be percieved as an ongoing threat. Gallo used the term "Fog of war", and I think it's apt.

How many NSG threads have we had during situations like this where a person goes "If they're running away from you they're no longer a threat and you have no right to go after them!"

Those are different situations, often an altercation between a limited number of people in a limited setting, like in someone's house. Context is key.

And is this the same girlfriend he's been arrested for beating or is that another girlfriend?

No idea.

[The Lone Alliance]

If they were going to keep him there (instead of telling him to go the fuck home like they should), they never should have allowed him to get separated from them in the first place there in that situation.

Exactly, I think a timeline of what the police were involved with him might be pretty interesting, cause if the police are saying they didn't know about him I really doubt that.

[Gravlen]

Yeah, that's fair.

I've read the complaint and I've watched all four videos (two angles of each incident), and read the NYT timeline analysis.

My analysis so far strongly indicates is that he was in over his head a bad situation he never should have even been close to (and there's several people most likely who need to face child endangerment charges), but ultimately from his perspective he's the victim in this scenario, tried to retreat repeatedly, and only used force when he literally could not retreat from his attackers.

He also might have a misdemeanor weapons charge in Wisconsin for the rifle, but the law is written so badly I'm uncertain. That's not a question of action, but how the law applies.

Again yeah he was in over his head, of course I also heard he was trying to get back to the other people he was with but the police actually kept him from doing so, if so that says a whole lot about the police.

A whole lot of bad things.

Makes me wonder if the police wanted him alone so something like this could happen so they'd have the excuse to step in, in which case charging him is just to cover up their own part of the matter.

I normally wouldn't believe something so tinfoil hattish but let's face it, stuff like this gives the police an out to shut down the riots.

The Kenosha PD is not looking good after the events of the previous week. I have a lot of questions and criticisms about them.

[Greed and Death]

There's a lot of that going around in this extremely politically charged situation. I've seen fake quotes attributed to Rittenhouse too, eagerly spread by both the right and the left as they portray him as a cold-blooded killer without remorse (which is apparently laudable to one side and monstrous to the other).

This is one of those situations where I find it's best to hold back and hope that the investigation manages to get a clear picture of what happened.

He also might have a misdemeanor weapons charge in Wisconsin for the rifle, but the law is written so badly I'm uncertain. That's not a question of action, but how the law applies.

Even I am having trouble figuring out that one.

I suspect the other charges will be dropped in exchange for him pleading to minor openly carrying while retaining the ability to appeal it. Though there are some factual issues in that regard.

[Gravlen]

His girlfriend gave an interview suggesting that he didn't see the first shooting happening, but tried to intervene to stop a percieved threat.

Of course, it'll be impossible to know what the dead man was really thinking when he got involved.

I think there's a lesson there for anyone hearing a shooting, arriving (or just turning to face it) and then getting involved. Picking whatever side seems to be the good guy (person defending themselves) is pretty much a coin toss, because they probably both feel they're in the right.

Also don't shoot in the air. A whole lot of people who weren't watching but did hear it, have good enough reason to think you shot at them.

This is yet another example of how the "good guy with a gun" narrative doesn't really work. In such a chaotic situation anyone taking action will be doing so without having a clear understanding of the facts, and risk taking lives (or being killed) for no good reason.

It's a bad situation, and you'll just have to make a call, but let's not pretend this is a situation any reasonable person wants to be in.

[Gravlen]

Thanks, I can see why you're the paralegal of NS.

Angry Gravlen noises

*Brandishing revving chainsaw*

Wait, paralegal? Yeah, it's always nice to have a good paralegal handy I guess

[Galloism]

So I don't normally drop youtube links, but I found this analysis of the situation by a lawyer - who references the prosecution document, the videos, the relevant law on carriage, assault, and self defense. His name is Colion Noir and I really enjoyed listening to his analysis.

13 minutes and 24 seconds. It's worth it.

It discusses the carriage law, and more or less "blow by blow" what happened and what that means under the law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9ZvnudFE

I may have been wrong about Wisconsin's duty to retreat, or he is.

(In light of his credentials vs mine, I'm inclined to think I'm the one who was wrong.)

[San Lumen]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/202 ... 645279002/

Kenosha sheriff said in 2018 “some people aren’t worth saving” why is this man still on the job?

[Greed and Death]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/27/kenosha-county-sheriff-2018-statement-under-new-scrutiny/5645279002/

Kenosha sheriff said in 2018 “some people aren’t worth saving” why is this man still on the job?

Because he is trying to arrest Kyle

[Kubra]

In any case, I'm sure we can all agree that taking a gun to a protest to play militia ain't a good way to keep peace.

[Ifreann]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/27/kenosha-county-sheriff-2018-statement-under-new-scrutiny/5645279002/

Kenosha sheriff said in 2018 “some people aren’t worth saving” why is this man still on the job?

Being "tough on crime" wins elections.

[Galloism]

In any case, I'm sure we can all agree that taking a gun to a protest to play militia ain't a good way to keep peace.

Probably not, no. He shouldn't have been there.

But the fact that he might be illegally carrying a weapon (law is unclear) doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to self defense.

People who are saying he's a terrorist whatever whatever are flat out wrong.

People are saying he's the hero we need are flat out wrong.

He's a dumb ass kid who went somewhere he shouldn't be armed in a way he shouldn't be. That's it.

[San Lumen]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/27/kenosha-county-sheriff-2018-statement-under-new-scrutiny/5645279002/

Kenosha sheriff said in 2018 “some people aren’t worth saving” why is this man still on the job?

Being "tough on crime" wins elections.

He should resign as sheriff and his fellow officers should demand it but they won’t

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I may have been wrong about Wisconsin's duty to retreat, or he is.

He says the act of retreating "resets" the status of initiator of force. If the initiator tries to run, someone who pursues them becomes the initiator of any further violence.

I thought there might be some legitimacy in chasing Rittenhouse to capture or restrain him, but it seems there's not. In retrospect that's fair enough: you shouldn't have to trust the good intentions of some other civilian who says all they want is to disarm and capture you. And particularly with a group of people (any one of them could harm you when you're captured).

I don't think you got it wrong. I think the duty to retreat still applies (where possible) but it applies to everyone, initiator or victim. Which would be good, considering in a lot of confrontations both sides think "the other one started it".

[Greed and Death]

In any case, I'm sure we can all agree that taking a gun to a protest to play militia ain't a good way to keep peace.

Sure but if you are an adult it is legal under the law in Wisconsin.