VEGANISM - THE TRUTH GOVERNMENTS DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW

[Aureumterra]

Instead of advocating everyone go vegan (which many will be unwilling to do and likely has its own health issues given that humans have developed into omnivores), it will be simpler to simultaneously push for cultivated meat and slowly doing away with factory farms.

Although the 'everyone go vegan' thing is what people tend to expect from a vegan cliché, so...

We have never developed into omnivores. You can give a steak to a horse and it could eat it.

The existence of canines disproves this claim

[Andsed]

There is plenty of value to domestication of pets. It gives the animals shelters, affection, food etc. And having a pet has been shown to be helpful to ones mental health, and service animals have been a great help to plenty of people. And of course it has created plenty of jobs.

I get the service animals point. But it isn't all necessary.

Domestication is still very beneficial for both sides.

[Heloin]

We cook meat to kill anything on it that could make us sick. The cooking doesn't make something that's inedible edible.

It makes it easier to digest.

It doesn't though. You can eat raw meat, you'll get sick probably because other things are living on it but you can eat it just fine. A horse just can't.

[Celritannia]

There's a big industry that's developed around feeding pets, grooming pets, buying them toys, etc.

Profits made, jobs created, that has economic value.

But what does one gain from having pets?

Companionship, joy, love, ability to care, kindness...

[Occidens Praseodymia]

We have never developed into omnivores. You can give a steak to a horse and it could eat it.

(Making my return to NSG cuz fuck it, the ignorance here is astounding)

Okay, explain why vegans need to be sure to eat foods supplemented with vitamin B12 (or take vitamin B12 supplements), which is otherwise naturally only found in animal products.

If humans didn't 'develop' into omnivores, why do we need a vitamin that you can only naturally get from animal products?

Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but vegan foods are fucking expensive. Pray tell, how do you expect everyone to switch to a vegan diet if some people would literally not be able to afford it?

I mean, I like me some veggie burgers, but I also know that I can get a lot more ground beef for not a lot more money than the price some companies want for veggie burgers.

Just checking Walmart's grocery delivery service (cause the prices match the in-store ones), the price for the Beyond Burger at my store is $4.84. Now that gives me two 1/4 pound patties or 1/2 lb in total.

Now comparing that to the cheapest pre-made hamburger patties I could get at my local Walmart, I could get four 1/3 pound patties for $6.84. Now that works out to $4.84/lb. The Beyond Burger works out to $9.68/lb. That's literally twice as much per pound.

But what does one gain from having pets?

Do you mean besides companionship and (for younger children) learning responsibility by having to take care of another living being?

Good points. I agree.
B12 isn't made by animals, but by bacteria.

[Thermodolia]

Yes it definitely is

Obviously not raw.

It doesn’t matter if the damn thing is raw or not a horse can not physically eat meat!! They can’t digest it, just in the same way that cats can’t eat plants

[Dollystana]

I'd like to point out, let's say going vegan and removing these farms were possible (farmers would probably be cull most of them anyway, not matter how many you try and save), what about pets that eat a meat based diet like cats and dogs?
They have become so domesticated that they can't hunt for food (well, maybe some cats but it's rare). They need a high meat based diet.

I have thought about this.
I would, personally, ban pets. But I don't thing anyone is in favour of that whatsoever.

Great, genociding one species so another can live. AWESOME idea.

/s

[Middle Barael]

We don’t have to all become vegan or even all fully vegetarian, just limiting meat some degree is enough. That being said, if you want to go vegetarian or pescatarian or vegan, that’s wonderful, and we should be encouraging these diets. However, as long as you limit your meat we’ll be fine. Plus, Veganism is a big step for most people, so if you want to become more eco friendly, here are the most eco-friendly diets (in order from easiest to start with to hardest to start with)

1) Limiting meat consumption (aka flexitarian diet)
2) Not eating red meat (beef and lamb), also called pescopollo vegetarianism
3) Pesatarianism (not eating red meat or poultry, but still eating dairy and fish)
4) Vegetarianism
5) Veganism

We don’t all have to go all the way, but simply going from being an omnivore to being a flexitarian is a great step, and that is what everyone should be doing

Wel yes, but actually no.

Forcing people completely change their diets will only make them less willing to do so, and it will push public opinion against eco-friendly eating. Forcing them to eat less meat, but still letting them have meat and/or encouraging but not requiring vegetarianism will make people be more eco-friendly.

I’m personally a pescatarian (except for a few rare special occasions), but my family is not. However, they have all been eating way healthier and way more eco-friendly after I stopped eating red meat, and now that I am pescatarian they eat even less meat. So you can’t say reducing (but not banning) meat consumption doesn’t work, in fact it has been encouraged by the like of Greta Thunberg and the Sunrise Movement as the best place to start for the average person.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

We cook meat to kill anything on it that could make us sick. The cooking doesn't make something that's inedible edible.

It makes it easier to digest.

Aren’t plants actually harder to digest for many animals because of the fibrous nature? Even herbivores have this problem iirc.

[Occidens Praseodymia]

I have thought about this.
I would, personally, ban pets. But I don't thing anyone is in favour of that whatsoever.

Great, genociding one species so another can live. AWESOME idea.

/s

I wouldn't kill them. They'd just die off.

[Heloin]

It makes it easier to digest.

Aren’t plants actually harder to digest for many animals because of the fibrous nature? Even herbivores have this problem iirc.

Humans can't eat most plants, we can however eat just about any animal.

[Occidens Praseodymia]

It makes it easier to digest.

Aren’t plants actually harder to digest for many animals because of the fibrous nature? Even herbivores have this problem iirc.

Depends on the plant.

[Aureumterra]

We cook meat to kill anything on it that could make us sick. The cooking doesn't make something that's inedible edible.

It makes it easier to digest.

Ever eaten Sashimi?

Here in Iceland there are plenty of raw delicacies, they’ve been eaten here for centuries now

[Thermodolia]

There's a big industry that's developed around feeding pets, grooming pets, buying them toys, etc.

Profits made, jobs created, that has economic value.

But what does one gain from having pets?

Companionship?

[Heloin]

Great, genociding one species so another can live. AWESOME idea.

/s

I wouldn't kill them. They'd just die off.

Genocide by apathy. What a great way to show how humane your being to other animals.

[Celritannia]

Great, genociding one species so another can live. AWESOME idea.

/s

I wouldn't kill them. They'd just die off.

Not giving them the food they deserve so they die is a classic example of genocide.

To say you care about animals, this shows otherwise.

[Andsed]

But what does one gain from having pets?

Companionship?

And in the case of service animals I don't think their value to someone can be overstated.

[Occidens Praseodymia]

I wouldn't kill them. They'd just die off.

Not giving them the food they deserve so they die is a classic example of genocide.

To say you care about animals, this shows otherwise.

It doesn't have to be actual meat.

[Stellar Colonies]

Not giving them the food they deserve so they die is a classic example of genocide.

To say you care about animals, this shows otherwise.

It doesn't have to be actual meat.

It really does.

[Andsed]

I wouldn't kill them. They'd just die off.

Genocide by apathy. What a great way to show how humane your being to other animals.

Apparently giving pets homes, food, love and affection, healthcare, toys etc is less humane then just leaving them to the wild to starve because they don't know how to hunt.

[Thermodolia]

Not giving them the food they deserve so they die is a classic example of genocide.

To say you care about animals, this shows otherwise.

It doesn't have to be actual meat.

Cats can’t survive without eating meat. You are going to kill them

[Celritannia]

Not giving them the food they deserve so they die is a classic example of genocide.

To say you care about animals, this shows otherwise.

It doesn't have to be actual meat.

Cats and dogs require meat.
Cats especially, they need Taurine, which can only be found in meat.
They are natural meat eaters, they cannot digest fake meat from plant matter. They can hardly eat plants.

https://www.aspca.org/news/why-cant-my- ... 0to%20them.

FFS, this is the most idiotic argument I have seen.

Now I need to go feed my cat a pouch of meat, I could try an apple, but she'd just sniff it and look at me like I am stupid.

[Middle Barael]

We have never developed into omnivores. You can give a steak to a horse and it could eat it.

(Making my return to NSG cuz fuck it, the ignorance here is astounding)

Okay, explain why vegans need to be sure to eat foods supplemented with vitamin B12 (or take vitamin B12 supplements), which is otherwise naturally only found in animal products.

If humans didn't 'develop' into omnivores, why do we need a vitamin that you can only naturally get from animal products?

Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but vegan foods are fucking expensive. Pray tell, how do you expect everyone to switch to a vegan diet if some people would literally not be able to afford it?

I mean, I like me some veggie burgers, but I also know that I can get a lot more ground beef for not a lot more money than the price some companies want for veggie burgers.

Just checking Walmart's grocery delivery service (cause the prices match the in-store ones), the price for the Beyond Burger at my store is $4.84. Now that gives me two 1/4 pound patties or 1/2 lb in total.

Now comparing that to the cheapest pre-made hamburger patties I could get at my local Walmart, I could get four 1/3 pound patties for $6.84. Now that works out to $4.84/lb. The Beyond Burger works out to $9.68/lb. That's literally twice as much per pound.

But what does one gain from having pets?

Do you mean besides companionship and (for younger children) learning responsibility by having to take care of another living being?

I agree with you that we should not require Veganism, but you made a few incorrect statements.

Eating less meat is actually way cheaper, and also way healthier. Sure, foods such as protein shakes or veggie burgers are really expensive, but you don’t need those to eat less meat. If you focus on the basics, stuff like fruit, veggies, nuts, legumes (aka beans), bread, pasta (including protein pasta, which is quite cheap tbh), and rice, you can eat a more healthy and more eco-conscious diet.

The point of veggie burgers and fake meat are to provide an alternative for “carnivores” so that they can have something that reminds them of real meat, but most people could probably reduce their meat consumption without needing meat alternatives. And as for the nutritional things, you can get your protein from other foods such as nuts, beans (especially rice and beans, which when combined apparently are even better for you), and protein pasta (as cheap as normal pasta, and tastes identical despite being made of chickpeas), and you can get your fats from olive oil or nuts as well.

You don’t need fake meat to go vegetarian, just like how a pescatarian doesn’t only eat fish. They are great if you want to have the taste of meat, but completely unnecessary except for the taste.

[The Archregimancy]

Locked for insufficient OP.

Occidens Praseodymia, you are welcome to try again - there's certainly scope for a thread about veganism - but try and develop an argument in the opening post rather than just post campaigning YouTube videos.

I would also strongly recommend not PLACING YOUR THREAD TITLE ALL IN CAPS. It comes across as shouting, and is considered rude.