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2020 US General Election Thread VIII: Cs, Ds, and Es

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How Many Votes Do You Expect to be Early Votes Nationwide?

0-10%
22
7%
10-20%
51
17%
20-30%
85
28%
30-40%
66
21%
40-50%
45
15%
50%+
39
13%
 
Total votes : 308

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Bienenhalde
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5752
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:42 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Talvezout wrote:US political hot take: Every territory that is sending a representative to Congress should become a state.

This means that Guam, DC, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands should all become states. If these places are all sending representatives to the US, why should we deny them full statehood and make them effectively second class citizens?


That's only a hot take to people with an (R) next to their name. The rest of us support the idea.


Obviously Puerto Rico should become a state, but I think some of the other territories you mention are too small in terms of population. DC maybe has enough population to be a state, but it could just as easily be annexed into Maryland. Maybe the US Virgin Islands could be added to Puerto Rico, since they are close by?
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:46 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
That's only a hot take to people with an (R) next to their name. The rest of us support the idea.


Obviously Puerto Rico should become a state, but I think some of the other territories you mention are too small in terms of population. DC maybe has enough population to be a state, but it could just as easily be annexed into Maryland. Maybe the US Virgin Islands could be added to Puerto Rico, since they are close by?


Puerto Rico and the United States Virgin Islands together as the State of the American Caribbean Islands (SACI) and American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands as the State of the American Pacific Islands (SAPI).
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The Rich Port
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Posts: 37558
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:48 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
That's only a hot take to people with an (R) next to their name. The rest of us support the idea.


Obviously Puerto Rico should become a state, but I think some of the other territories you mention are too small in terms of population. DC maybe has enough population to be a state, but it could just as easily be annexed into Maryland. Maybe the US Virgin Islands could be added to Puerto Rico, since they are close by?


Nah, Trump says we need to "pay our debts" first. :roll:

Imagine thinking Puerto Rico owes him a fucking penny after America were the ones who fucking stole Puerto Rico in the first place, and then letting the corporations, who don't pay any fucking taxes, to run the country into the ground and lobby the Popular Party to keep it a territory because they make more money because we have no power to regulate them as a territory.

You don't get to declare bankruptcy on that one, can you.

I say let him kick us out of the Union so we can nationalize all the asshole corporations to recoup our costs.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Posts: 5496
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:50 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
Obviously Puerto Rico should become a state, but I think some of the other territories you mention are too small in terms of population. DC maybe has enough population to be a state, but it could just as easily be annexed into Maryland. Maybe the US Virgin Islands could be added to Puerto Rico, since they are close by?


Nah, Trump says we need to "pay our debts" first. :roll:

Imagine thinking Puerto Rico owes him a fucking penny after America were the ones who fucking stole Puerto Rico in the first place, and then letting the corporations, who don't pay any fucking taxes, to run the country into the ground and lobby the Popular Party to keep it a territory because they make more money because we have no power to regulate them as a territory.

You don't get to declare bankruptcy on that one, can you.

I say let him kick us out of the Union so we can nationalize all the asshole corporations to recoup our costs.


I mean... we didn't steal you. The Spanish surrendered you after they got their asses kicked. True that war wasn't justified, but we didn't know that at the time.
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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37558
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:52 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Nah, Trump says we need to "pay our debts" first. :roll:

Imagine thinking Puerto Rico owes him a fucking penny after America were the ones who fucking stole Puerto Rico in the first place, and then letting the corporations, who don't pay any fucking taxes, to run the country into the ground and lobby the Popular Party to keep it a territory because they make more money because we have no power to regulate them as a territory.

You don't get to declare bankruptcy on that one, can you.

I say let him kick us out of the Union so we can nationalize all the asshole corporations to recoup our costs.


I mean... we didn't steal you. The Spanish surrendered you after they got their asses kicked. True that war wasn't justified, but we didn't know that at the time.


Kinda pedantic dontchathink. If I challenged a man to a duel for his TV, and even if he lost he says I can't have his TV, so I hold a gun to his head, that's still stealing.

Yeah, the Spaniards stole it from the Natives, but they're all dead now so.
Last edited by The Rich Port on Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Visayan Islands
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 5330
Founded: Jan 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Visayan Islands » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:53 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Jeb is pretty much the worst kind of Republican though.


Jeb isn't as based as Mutti Merkel, but is still much better than Trump.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Posts: 5496
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:55 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
I mean... we didn't steal you. The Spanish surrendered you after they got their asses kicked. True that war wasn't justified, but we didn't know that at the time.


Kinda pedantic dontchathink. If I challenged a man to a duel for his TV, and even if he lost he says I can't have his TV, so I hold a gun to his head, that's still stealing.

Yeah, the Spaniards stole it from the Natives, but they're all dead now so.


That's... not really what happened. The war was about Cuba, not Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico and the Philippines were just a bonus.
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Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37558
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:58 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Kinda pedantic dontchathink. If I challenged a man to a duel for his TV, and even if he lost he says I can't have his TV, so I hold a gun to his head, that's still stealing.

Yeah, the Spaniards stole it from the Natives, but they're all dead now so.


That's... not really what happened. The war was about Cuba, not Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico and the Philippines were just a bonus.


=_=

So I took the guy's TV and I took the money in his wallet too as a bonus. Still stealing.

Either way, Puerto Rico didn't get a choice in staying in America until... 150 years later?

And even then, the two most recent plebiscites have been ignored, because they were in favor of statehood.

Where's our fucking ratification vote.
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NOW WITH SUPER SECRET VIP CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION DISCORD. INQUIRE VIA TELEGRAM.

Coronavirus is real, and a real problem. Do not panic, but please educate yourself and take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones. Donald Trump lied. Pray for the sick.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 48543
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:35 pm

Very interesting news I just learned. Amy Comey Barrett has in the past opposed qualified immunity, I'm kinda shocked the GOP would be willing to go forward with that given all the cop loving rhetoric.
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Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16260
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:37 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
That's... not really what happened. The war was about Cuba, not Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico and the Philippines were just a bonus.


=_=

So I took the guy's TV and I took the money in his wallet too as a bonus. Still stealing.

Either way, Puerto Rico didn't get a choice in staying in America until... 150 years later?

And even then, the two most recent plebiscites have been ignored, because they were in favor of statehood.

Where's our fucking ratification vote.


Erm...the last one was ignored because it was a PNP power grab and a sham vote with 23% turnout.
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The Black Forrest
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:38 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Very interesting news I just learned. Amy Comey Barrett has in the past opposed qualified immunity, I'm kinda shocked the GOP would be willing to go forward with that given all the cop loving rhetoric.


Hmmm? Where is the story?

Smells like “look libs she isn’t that bad!”
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The Rich Port
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Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:39 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Very interesting news I just learned. Amy Comey Barrett has in the past opposed qualified immunity, I'm kinda shocked the GOP would be willing to go forward with that given all the cop loving rhetoric.


Either they forgot or they're trying to very sneakily and slowly change their overall tune of "cops can do nothing wrong" to "Eh I mean sometimes... Look we're hemorrhaging voters OK"
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Rusozak
Senator
 
Posts: 4046
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rusozak » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:39 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Very interesting news I just learned. Amy Comey Barrett has in the past opposed qualified immunity, I'm kinda shocked the GOP would be willing to go forward with that given all the cop loving rhetoric.


Their support only goes as far it serves their purpose. The ideology of the GOP is power for power's sake. They'll let that slide so long as their support base doesn't waver.
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The Rich Port
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Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:40 pm

Shrillland wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
=_=

So I took the guy's TV and I took the money in his wallet too as a bonus. Still stealing.

Either way, Puerto Rico didn't get a choice in staying in America until... 150 years later?

And even then, the two most recent plebiscites have been ignored, because they were in favor of statehood.

Where's our fucking ratification vote.


Erm...the last one was ignored because it was a PNP power grab and a sham vote with 23% turnout.


How convenient that the move that is bad for corporations and the USA's bottom line was a "sham vote".
Last edited by The Rich Port on Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NOW WITH SUPER SECRET VIP CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION DISCORD. INQUIRE VIA TELEGRAM.

Coronavirus is real, and a real problem. Do not panic, but please educate yourself and take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones. Donald Trump lied. Pray for the sick.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
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A COMER Y A TOMAR, QUE EL CONSERVATISMO SE VA A ACABAR.

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Economic Report
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The Book Of Sue
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Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5940
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Uiiop » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:41 pm

Ngelmish wrote:
Uiiop wrote:I feel either an implicit "2022 will wreck republicans to either make them lose seat or change their "politicians" and/or a "Oh, we're adding Guam too" vibe.

Either way, I'm not sure what you're saying is true. The poll pundits say there's already a small plurality for court packing and people are excepted to grow that number once things actually start to happen. People are polarized already and it's not like Court packing in response to other moves is going to offend the swing voter.


I don't pretend to know what's going to happen in '22, but I do think the Democrats are more likely to be successful in general if they empower themselves to really do more than one significant piece of legislation, and that means padding their majority. Incorporating new states is a legal way to do that. So it's probably more of the latter. I'd be in favor of statehood for D.C., Puerto Rico and breaking California up, if I was advising the party.

And, yes, I may be mistaken. But it seems from my observation that packing the court riles all the partisans up on both sides without addressing the structural imbalance that the majority party has a very shaky grasp on maintaining power in the senate for any length of time. The long term solution then seems obvious. Build that durable majority with hardball if necessary and use it to deliver reforms that, at once reward and gratify your own supporters, but universally improve things for the whole country (this is why healthcare would be at the top of the list). I think that's a more viable long term path than resorting to immediate court packing, but, yeah, sure, I'll concede that it's all speculation.

It's all up in the air I agree. What I'm leaning is more "try statehood and ditching the filibuster first but get court reform done before the midterms "than "just do courts first" to be clear. I honestly say there's a chance the courts will try to screw them over the first two giving people enough excuse anyways. Not necessarily a likely chance mind, but who's knows where the ideological winds can take us.
Last edited by Uiiop on Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Organized States
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8426
Founded: Apr 26, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Organized States » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:43 pm

Talvezout wrote:US political hot take: Every territory that is sending a representative to Congress should become a state.

This means that Guam, DC, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands should all become states. If these places are all sending representatives to the US, why should we deny them full statehood and make them effectively second class citizens?

Political Hot Take: How about you let us actually decide what we want rather than have another hundred years of dictating it from Washington?
Thank God for OS!- Deian
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"I regret that I have only one life to give to my island." -Ricardo Bordallo, 2nd Governor of Guam
"Both are voyages of exploration. Hōkūle‘a is in the past, Columbia is in the future." -Colonel Charles L. Veach, USAF, Astronaut and Navigation Enthusiast

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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 48543
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:43 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Very interesting news I just learned. Amy Comey Barrett has in the past opposed qualified immunity, I'm kinda shocked the GOP would be willing to go forward with that given all the cop loving rhetoric.


Hmmm? Where is the story?

Smells like “look libs she isn’t that bad!”


The short version is she isn't perfect on the topic and does sometimes side with the government, but it's not a lockstep thing and she has sided with the little person against law enforcement too.
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Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5940
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Uiiop » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:45 pm

Organized States wrote:
Talvezout wrote:US political hot take: Every territory that is sending a representative to Congress should become a state.

This means that Guam, DC, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands should all become states. If these places are all sending representatives to the US, why should we deny them full statehood and make them effectively second class citizens?

Political Hot Take: How about you let us actually decide what we want rather than have another hundred years of dictating it from Washington?

Well in that case, What do both the individual and collective you want then?

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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37558
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:46 pm

Organized States wrote:
Talvezout wrote:US political hot take: Every territory that is sending a representative to Congress should become a state.

This means that Guam, DC, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands should all become states. If these places are all sending representatives to the US, why should we deny them full statehood and make them effectively second class citizens?

Political Hot Take: How about you let us actually decide what we want rather than have another hundred years of dictating it from Washington?


... Wouldn't becoming a state give you exactly that?
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NOW WITH SUPER SECRET VIP CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION DISCORD. INQUIRE VIA TELEGRAM.

Coronavirus is real, and a real problem. Do not panic, but please educate yourself and take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones. Donald Trump lied. Pray for the sick.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS

A COMER Y A TOMAR, QUE EL CONSERVATISMO SE VA A ACABAR.

Tracking | History | Factbook | Dharma
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Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16260
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:47 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Erm...the last one was ignored because it was a PNP power grab and a sham vote with 23% turnout.


How convenient that the move that is bad for corporations and the USA's bottom line was a "sham vote".



Yeah, but if hardly anybody voted on it then it can hardly be seen as representative of the people's will.
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Organized States
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8426
Founded: Apr 26, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Organized States » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:50 pm

Uiiop wrote:
Organized States wrote:Political Hot Take: How about you let us actually decide what we want rather than have another hundred years of dictating it from Washington?

Well in that case, What do both the individual and collective you want then?

If you ask me, personally, I'm in favor of getting a Commonwealth status with evolved political powers similar to the Northern Marianas (they legally maintain their own customs territory and have a number of very specific native land rights that Guam does not and that I would like to see implemented so that my future children won't get priced out of their own island by the Department of Defense).

Most people on Guam are in favor of full statehood or a form of Free Association similar to those of Palau and the Federated States. We actually need to hold a vote, but the Federal Government has repeatedly said no.
Thank God for OS!- Deian
"In the old days, the navigators used magic to make themselves strong, but now, nothing; they just pray. Before they leave and at sea, they pray. But I, I make myself strong by thinking—just by thinking! I make myself strong because I despise cowardice. Too many men are afraid of the sea. But I am a navigator."-Mau Piailug
"I regret that I have only one life to give to my island." -Ricardo Bordallo, 2nd Governor of Guam
"Both are voyages of exploration. Hōkūle‘a is in the past, Columbia is in the future." -Colonel Charles L. Veach, USAF, Astronaut and Navigation Enthusiast

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The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44832
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:51 pm



Interesting. The problem? If old McC and Trump want her?....She is a hard core con and thought to be a guaranteed yes vote for con causes.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Organized States
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8426
Founded: Apr 26, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Organized States » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:51 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Organized States wrote:Political Hot Take: How about you let us actually decide what we want rather than have another hundred years of dictating it from Washington?


... Wouldn't becoming a state give you exactly that?

No. We would lose the ability to develop our own laws regarding native land holdings and regulate our own Customs Territory.
Thank God for OS!- Deian
"In the old days, the navigators used magic to make themselves strong, but now, nothing; they just pray. Before they leave and at sea, they pray. But I, I make myself strong by thinking—just by thinking! I make myself strong because I despise cowardice. Too many men are afraid of the sea. But I am a navigator."-Mau Piailug
"I regret that I have only one life to give to my island." -Ricardo Bordallo, 2nd Governor of Guam
"Both are voyages of exploration. Hōkūle‘a is in the past, Columbia is in the future." -Colonel Charles L. Veach, USAF, Astronaut and Navigation Enthusiast

Pacific Islander-American (proud member of the 0.5%), Officer to be

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Shrillland
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Posts: 16260
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:51 pm

Organized States wrote:
Uiiop wrote:Well in that case, What do both the individual and collective you want then?

If you ask me, personally, I'm in favor of getting a Commonwealth status with evolved political powers similar to the Northern Marianas (they legally maintain their own customs territory and have a number of very specific native land rights that Guam does not and that I would like to see implemented so that my future children won't get priced out of their own island by the Department of Defense).

Most people on Guam are in favor of full statehood or a form of Free Association similar to those of Palau and the Federated States. We actually need to hold a vote, but the Federal Government has repeatedly said no.


Because then the Pentagon can't use you guys as their own Pacific pleasure playground?
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Organized States
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8426
Founded: Apr 26, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Organized States » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:53 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Organized States wrote:If you ask me, personally, I'm in favor of getting a Commonwealth status with evolved political powers similar to the Northern Marianas (they legally maintain their own customs territory and have a number of very specific native land rights that Guam does not and that I would like to see implemented so that my future children won't get priced out of their own island by the Department of Defense).

Most people on Guam are in favor of full statehood or a form of Free Association similar to those of Palau and the Federated States. We actually need to hold a vote, but the Federal Government has repeatedly said no.


Because then the Pentagon can't use you guys as their own Pacific pleasure playground?

More like my future kids will be able to own their homes so they don't get cashed out like Native Hawaiians have on O'ahu.
Thank God for OS!- Deian
"In the old days, the navigators used magic to make themselves strong, but now, nothing; they just pray. Before they leave and at sea, they pray. But I, I make myself strong by thinking—just by thinking! I make myself strong because I despise cowardice. Too many men are afraid of the sea. But I am a navigator."-Mau Piailug
"I regret that I have only one life to give to my island." -Ricardo Bordallo, 2nd Governor of Guam
"Both are voyages of exploration. Hōkūle‘a is in the past, Columbia is in the future." -Colonel Charles L. Veach, USAF, Astronaut and Navigation Enthusiast

Pacific Islander-American (proud member of the 0.5%), Officer to be

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