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2020 US General Election Thread VIII: Cs, Ds, and Es

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How Many Votes Do You Expect to be Early Votes Nationwide?

0-10%
22
7%
10-20%
51
17%
20-30%
85
28%
30-40%
66
21%
40-50%
45
15%
50%+
39
13%
 
Total votes : 308

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:36 pm

Saint Sche Batose wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm? Ok. Stop being a typical conservative and actually research things. GMS is nothing more then a canned response poster. The problem with perspective claims? They usually lack source and data.


Conservatives are very educated. Liberals just can't handle the facts and call it fake news for their gain.

Don’t be summer’s last breath. Skip these “Yay Team Go!” Posts. Try substance, focus on current events.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:37 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Conservatives are very educated. Liberals just can't handle the facts and call it fake news for their gain.


Source?

Actually “fake news” is a conservative epitaph. If you have evidence of libs using it; by all means!


Well, the first I remember the phrase being used was actually against conservatives when it was cited as one of the reasons Trump won in '16.
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Saint Sche Batose
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Postby Saint Sche Batose » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:37 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Conservatives are very educated. Liberals just can't handle the facts and call it fake news for their gain.


Source?

Actually “fake news” is a conservative epitaph. If you have evidence of libs using it; by all means!


https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39592010

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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:37 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Post War America wrote:
I want no appellate judges. The problem is judicial review.

We already don't have an independent judiciary, the past day of this thread has been 80% about how the Republicans will put one of their stoolies in a lifetime appointed position. At least if they were made accountable you could fucking get rid of them if they consistently made dogshit decisions.


A supreme court only? Judges shouldnt be able to strike down laws?

No judges should not be able to removed for their decisions. Judges should be independent, if they are not then you don't have a true democracy.


News flash: America is nowhere close to being a true democracy. Nonetheless, you're regularly against making it closer to a true democracy (recall elections, electing judges)

There's nothing remotely democratic about nine people who are appointed for life being able to decide what's what in this country based on their interpretations of the Constitution.
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Post War America
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Postby Post War America » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:38 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Yeet SCOTUS too. Its just a bigger court. They shouldn't be able to strike down laws no. History has demonstrated that 9 times out of 10, judicial review has been counter to justice.

I fail to see how you can be so fucking blind. JUDGES ARE ALREADY NOT INDEPENDENT. How the fuck can you watch this thread for the past 24 hours and not notice that?

Who should be able to review the constitutionality of laws, then?


If reviewing the constitutionality of laws is a must, then it should be done by a nonjudicial council as part of the process of passing a law.
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Saint Sche Batose
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Postby Saint Sche Batose » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:38 pm

Kannap wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
A supreme court only? Judges shouldnt be able to strike down laws?

No judges should not be able to removed for their decisions. Judges should be independent, if they are not then you don't have a true democracy.


News flash: America is nowhere close to being a true democracy. Nonetheless, you're regularly against making it closer to a true democracy (recall elections, electing judges)



There's nothing remotely democratic about nine people who are appointed for life being able to decide what's what in this country based on their interpretations of the Constitution.


How much hate do you get for being Independent?
Last edited by Saint Sche Batose on Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cannot think of a name
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:38 pm

Shrillland wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Source?

Actually “fake news” is a conservative epitaph. If you have evidence of libs using it; by all means!


Well, the first I remember the phrase being used was actually against conservatives when it was cited as one of the reasons Trump won in '16.

Okay, it’s important to remember that ‘fake news’ WAS used to refer to actual faked news stories on spoof sites shared on social media, not ‘news I don’t like’ as Trump and co now use the term.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:38 pm

Post War America wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
A supreme court only? Judges shouldnt be able to strike down laws?

No judges should not be able to removed for their decisions. Judges should be independent, if they are not then you don't have a true democracy.


Yeet SCOTUS too. Its just a bigger court. They shouldn't be able to strike down laws no. History has demonstrated that 9 times out of 10, judicial review has been counter to justice.

I fail to see how you can be so fucking blind. JUDGES ARE ALREADY NOT INDEPENDENT. How the fuck can you watch this thread for the past 24 hours and not notice that?

If there was no judicial review just about every landmark case from Brown to Ogberfell would not have happened

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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:38 pm

Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Heloin wrote:You praised someone for in so many words saying nothing then called me a liberal for pointing this out. You don't have to like it but if your here people will engage with your posts.


Wow, really. You just saved the world with that very obvious post. Thank you for the info that I have already learned. I'll stick it in my back pocket for later use. :)

I don't get why you seem annoyed but right on. I told you something and you screamed liberal, not my problem.

Kannap wrote:
Saint Sche Batose wrote:This is would be an ideal America. (All jokes. No offense meant to anyone.)

No Zoos
Cannabis Legal
No Judiciary
Metricism
Universal Health Care
Climate Treaty
Space Program


Removed all the nonsense and there's some good stuff here.

The No Cars one is pretty good but that only comes with the caveat of more trains, boats, and busses.
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Cannot think of a name
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:40 pm

Post War America wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Who should be able to review the constitutionality of laws, then?


If reviewing the constitutionality of laws is a must, then it should be done by a nonjudicial council as part of the process of passing a law.

And that is above abuses in what way, rather than just changing the name on the door and the qualifications for the position?
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Saint Sche Batose
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Founded: May 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Saint Sche Batose » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:40 pm

Heloin wrote:
Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Wow, really. You just saved the world with that very obvious post. Thank you for the info that I have already learned. I'll stick it in my back pocket for later use. :)

I don't get why you seem annoyed but right on. I told you something and you screamed liberal, not my problem.

Kannap wrote:
Removed all the nonsense and there's some good stuff here.

The No Cars one is pretty good but that only comes with the caveat of more trains, boats, and busses.


I'm not annoyed. I didn't scream liberal, I typed it calmly into my post.

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Shrillland
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Posts: 16313
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:40 pm

Kannap wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
A supreme court only? Judges shouldnt be able to strike down laws?

No judges should not be able to removed for their decisions. Judges should be independent, if they are not then you don't have a true democracy.


News flash: America is nowhere close to being a true democracy. Nonetheless, you're regularly against making it closer to a true democracy (recall elections, electing judges)

There's nothing remotely democratic about nine people who are appointed for life being able to decide what's what in this country based on their interpretations of the Constitution.



No other nation elects judges without making it an exclusively political process, either. Judges should be appointed, yes, but closer to what many in Europe do by having the President choose from a list drafted by an independent body of judges.
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Post War America
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:42 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Yeet SCOTUS too. Its just a bigger court. They shouldn't be able to strike down laws no. History has demonstrated that 9 times out of 10, judicial review has been counter to justice.

I fail to see how you can be so fucking blind. JUDGES ARE ALREADY NOT INDEPENDENT. How the fuck can you watch this thread for the past 24 hours and not notice that?

If there was no judicial review just about every landmark case from Brown to Ogberfell would not have happened


Dredd Scott also would not have happened. Korematsu wouldn't have happened. And while I don't particularly care, you might be surprised to find out DC v Heller wouldn't have happened either. That a small cluster of people get to have a lifetime access to determining the fate of the country sometimes helps you doesn't make it a good idea.
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Saint Sche Batose
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Postby Saint Sche Batose » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:42 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Kannap wrote:
News flash: America is nowhere close to being a true democracy. Nonetheless, you're regularly against making it closer to a true democracy (recall elections, electing judges)

There's nothing remotely democratic about nine people who are appointed for life being able to decide what's what in this country based on their interpretations of the Constitution.



No other nation elects judges without making it an exclusively political process, either. Judges should be appointed, yes, but closer to what many in Europe do by having the President choose from a list drafted by an independent body of judges.


European politics is just as broken as America's. Why? Because America was built on their politics.

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Post War America
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Postby Post War America » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:45 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Post War America wrote:
If reviewing the constitutionality of laws is a must, then it should be done by a nonjudicial council as part of the process of passing a law.

And that is above abuses in what way, rather than just changing the name on the door and the qualifications for the position?


SCOTUS isn't?

Shrillland wrote:
Kannap wrote:
News flash: America is nowhere close to being a true democracy. Nonetheless, you're regularly against making it closer to a true democracy (recall elections, electing judges)

There's nothing remotely democratic about nine people who are appointed for life being able to decide what's what in this country based on their interpretations of the Constitution.



No other nation elects judges without making it an exclusively political process, either. Judges should be appointed, yes, but closer to what many in Europe do by having the President choose from a list drafted by an independent body of judges.


I mean that's not a terrible idea.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Proudly Banned from the 10000 Islands
For those who care
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Not Post-Apocalyptic
Economic Left: -9.62
Social Libertarian: -6.00
Unrepentant New England Yankee
Gravlen wrote:The famous Bowling Green Massacre is yesterday's news. Today it's all about the Cricket Blue Carnage. Tomorrow it'll be about the Curling Yellow Annihilation.

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Post War America
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:46 pm

Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Shrillland wrote:

No other nation elects judges without making it an exclusively political process, either. Judges should be appointed, yes, but closer to what many in Europe do by having the President choose from a list drafted by an independent body of judges.


European politics is just as broken as America's. Why? Because America was built on their politics.


If only we could have had the social democracy instead of the outdated political system reminiscent of early modern England.
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Proudly Banned from the 10000 Islands
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Gravlen wrote:The famous Bowling Green Massacre is yesterday's news. Today it's all about the Cricket Blue Carnage. Tomorrow it'll be about the Curling Yellow Annihilation.

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Greater Miami Shores
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:46 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:Biden is on record as saying he is against packing the US Supreme Court with Democrats, because then when it is the Republicans turn they do it to us. But if he wins the election he could change his mind. Which Democrats and Democrat supporters wish Biden to win the election, and Republicans and Republican supporters wish President Trump to win the election.


Yes, it will be the Republicans turn to pack the court, and then the voters will realise what a mess this all is and demand a constitutional amendment for structural court reform that both sides will readily agree to to deny given the other too much power including hard limits on how many justices there are, term limits, and mandatory retirement ages.

It could be the other way around, remember everything works both ways in politics, this is a Fact and I am not lying.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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The Black Forrest
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:46 pm

Kannap wrote:
Saint Sche Batose wrote:This is would be an ideal America. (All jokes. No offense meant to anyone.)

No Zoos
Cannabis Legal
No Judiciary
Metricism
Universal Health Care
Climate Treaty
Space Program


Removed all the nonsense and there's some good stuff here.
l

Hmmm. I am ok with Zoos. They just need to be designed with the animal in mind.
Cannabis: Yes.
No Judiciary? As in court duty? It’s only so many times in your life time. I nearly sat on one trial. Other then that its annoying but a small price.
Metrics? I can see it. I was the part of the generation which tried it. There was no plan and it was basically “here is the metric system...Go!
UHC/Climate/Space: Yes
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Shrillland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:46 pm

Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Shrillland wrote:

No other nation elects judges without making it an exclusively political process, either. Judges should be appointed, yes, but closer to what many in Europe do by having the President choose from a list drafted by an independent body of judges.


European politics is just as broken as America's. Why? Because America was built on their politics.


It's not as broken as ours, save for a few outliers like Hungary. And it's because of the reverse: Most of their constitutions were ultimately derived from ours with alterations to correct what they saw as flaws in the system.
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Saint Sche Batose
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Founded: May 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Saint Sche Batose » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:46 pm

Post War America wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:And that is above abuses in what way, rather than just changing the name on the door and the qualifications for the position?


SCOTUS isn't?

Shrillland wrote:



No other nation elects judges without making it an exclusively political process, either. Judges should be appointed, yes, but closer to what many in Europe do by having the President choose from a list drafted by an independent body of judges.


I mean that's not a terrible idea.


But it will take a long time for our government to change that dramatically if the US even considers it.
Last edited by Saint Sche Batose on Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kannap
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Posts: 63733
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:47 pm

Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Removed all the nonsense and there's some good stuff here.


You really think I meant all that?


No, but I got rid of the nonsense and what I left ended up with is actually good stuff.
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Post War America
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Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:48 pm

Saint Sche Batose wrote:
Post War America wrote:
SCOTUS isn't?



I mean that's not a terrible idea.


But it will take a long time for our government to change that dramatically if the US even considers it.


Oh sure, but the point is that its bugfuck insane to pretend that SCOTUS is above reproach, and that any alternative would be automatically worse.
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Gravlen wrote:The famous Bowling Green Massacre is yesterday's news. Today it's all about the Cricket Blue Carnage. Tomorrow it'll be about the Curling Yellow Annihilation.

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Saint Sche Batose
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: May 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Saint Sche Batose » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:48 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Removed all the nonsense and there's some good stuff here.
l

Hmmm. I am ok with Zoos. They just need to be designed with the animal in mind.
Cannabis: Yes.
No Judiciary? As in court duty? It’s only so many times in your life time. I nearly sat on one trial. Other then that its annoying but a small price.
Metrics? I can see it. I was the part of the generation which tried it. There was no plan and it was basically “here is the metric system...Go!
UHC/Climate/Space: Yes


You did read the sentence at the top, right?

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34857
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:48 pm

Post War America wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:And that is above abuses in what way, rather than just changing the name on the door and the qualifications for the position?


SCOTUS isn't?

If your fix doesn’t change anything but the qualifications, why are we considering it? You can’t just restate the problem, defend your solution.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Greater Miami Shores
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Posts: 9035
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:48 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Shrillland wrote:Trump's now saying his nominee will most likely be a woman and be announced next week: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/09/19/us/live-rbg-death-supreme-court/trump-says-he-expects-to-nominate-a-replacement-for-ginsburg-most-likely-a-woman-next-week

All who bet on Amy Barrett may come up and receive their winnings.


She would pull the court far to the right. I worry about LGBT rights, women's rights and the environment if she gets on the court.

A Leftist Liberal Democrat would pull the US Supreme Court so far to the Left, I worry about our freedoms, and we Republicans worry about our freedoms, I mean most Republicans :)
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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