2020 US General Election Thread VIII: Cs, Ds, and Es

[Liriena]

Starting to get campaign materials in the mail, got a card that accused Biden of being taken over by the "radical left" and as I was looking at it my only thought was 'damn, I wish.'

John Oliver's latest bit expressed a similar sentiment.

John Oliver has been getting kinda based lately.

[Northern Davincia]

Not to give credit to Trump for being a master of 4D chess, but the reactions at his statement make it appear that the voting system is more vulnerable to fraud than first believed.
Perhaps he was testing for that. He wasn't encouraging fraud per se, but expecting the media to render it plausible in the public's mind.

No elected official should be encouraging criminal action

Yes, but the bigger goal of his was to cast doubt on the election's legitimacy. It's genius, but suited to an evil end.

[Telconi]

How is that not illegal for a candidate to be encouraging attempting voter fraud?

He’s a Republican and the president so it’s ok. Republicans in congress should be shouting this down

Oh come on, I think it's old news that no congressional Republican gives a hoot what you think.

[Rusozak]

He’s a Republican and the president so it’s ok. Republicans in congress should be shouting this down

Oh come on, I think it's old news that no congressional Republican gives a hoot what you think.

Or anyone else for that matter.

[Telconi]

Oh come on, I think it's old news that no congressional Republican gives a hoot what you think.

Or anyone else for that matter.

Naw, they've got constituents.

[United States of Devonta]

He’s a Republican and the president so it’s ok. Republicans in congress should be shouting this down

Not to give credit to Trump for being a master of 4D chess, but the reactions at his statement make it appear that the voting system is more vulnerable to fraud than first believed.
Perhaps he was testing for that. He wasn't encouraging fraud per se, but expecting the media to render it plausible in the public's mind.

Plainly stating "vote twice" is encouraging it. Let's not pussy foot around. Your position is honestly intellectually bankrupt.

He's actively trying to send his own supporters to prison.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

.
It seriously SHOULD be possible to vote by mail AND vote in person.

1. You vote by mail as insurance, against some eventuality (car breaks down, there's a long queue) preventing you voting on Election Day.
   
2. Then if it's convenient to do so, you vote on election day also. As insurance against your postal vote being lost or delayed.

It just requires another round of ballot sorting, and possibly a delay in announcing the results.

(Below, I say "basket" ballots to mean to store them separately. They're presumed eliminated but should be kept until after all possible appeals are exhausted, when they can be securely destroyed)

1. All the postal ballots are collected.

2. They have a barcode of some sort, inside the outer envelope (which is removed immediately, there is no unique information on it so it goes to recycling ... maybe basket it for a while in case appellants want to check that every envelope is empty) which identifies the voter. But their ballot itself is still inside that.

3. Now might be a good time to sift the postal votes for disqualified voters. Only a very few will have become disqualified between when the blank ballot was mailed out, and Election Day. But you don't want any AT ALL getting through, because they're likely disqualified for criminal conviction and you know how heated felon voting gets! It also doesn't hurt to check for ballots that should never have been sent out at all.

4-a. Then you can open the final envelopes and count the postal votes. They must go into a database with names and identifying information attached. This is so that if in-person or absentee votes double up with them later, they can be removed from the count. To another basket of course, a virtual one, in case of appeals.

4-b (1). If keeping ID attached to ballots (going into the electronic realm), is considered too risky, there's another way. However it involves a delay, and quite a substantial one if it's done properly (see 5). Leave the postal ballots un-opened until all the in-person voters have been recorded (whether or not their actual vote has been counted), then sift the envelopes with ID outside but postal ballots still hidden inside, for any that match the in-person voting record. Basket the matching ones.

4-b (2). Now you can open the envelopes (basketing the hopefully empty envelopes), separating the ID from the ballot. Count the ballots. Since you know by previous ID that none of them are duplicates from the same person, they can be added to the grand tally. You've got to the stage of a very authoritative result by which elections are usually called the same day as they're held. Note they might not be this year: we're counting on local authorities to have enough staff to count the expected high postal votes, and nobody was ever disappointed discounting the counties!

5. But what about absentee votes? Maybe they could be done away with, as postal voting could serve the same purpose. But postal voting as generally implemented requires the voter to mail in before Election Day, when really they are entitled to leave it until close of polls on election day to make up their minds. That entitlement is guaranteed everywhere (except mail-only states) because if they really want it they can give up the lesser entitlement of postal voting. Absentee voters should have both options too, so we can't take away their entitlement to vote in-person (somewhere) on election day. Requiring them to travel home to vote would be a serious infringement of that entitlement.

6. Here's where the distinction between 4-a (the ID and their Vote stay linked into the system), and 4-b (postal votes stay sealed until matches are sifted out) gets a bit messy. With 4-a it would be trivial to eliminate postal votes that double up with absentee votes when the latter arrive, barely changing the result at all. But with 4-b all absentee votes have to be in (which can take days), before the final envelopes of postal votes can even be counted.

7. The absentee vote delay is barely noticeable. Perhaps you can point to an election result that flipped after voting of absentees, but it's rare because they aren't that common and they don't tilt hard either way. But if the same delay was imposed on postal votes the rioters and the dancers in the street would get sick of it all and bipartisan love and looting would ensue.

I have a feeling I missed a good option regarding the postal/absentee dilemma. Comments?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

He’s a Republican and the president so it’s ok. Republicans in congress should be shouting this down

Not to give credit to Trump for being a master of 4D chess, but the reactions at his statement make it appear that the voting system is more vulnerable to fraud than first believed.

Imagine if this was any other other crime.

Trump: "I've changed my mind about rioting. It's OK, but only if you loot stuff"
Democrats: "What the actual fucking fuck you fucking fascist fuck?"
Northern Davincia: "This makes it appear shops are more vulnerable to looting than first believed"

Make it a property crime instead of an electoral crime ... and watch ND flip that flop

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Not to give credit to Trump for being a master of 4D chess, but the reactions at his statement make it appear that the voting system is more vulnerable to fraud than first believed.
Perhaps he was testing for that. He wasn't encouraging fraud per se, but expecting the media to render it plausible in the public's mind.

Plainly stating "vote twice" is encouraging it. Let's not pussy foot around. Your position is honestly intellectually bankrupt.

He's actively trying to send his own supporters to prison.

I don't think electoral laws are actually that strict, though they should be.

And "the President said to do it, so I assumed it was legal" might be a defense. Though it shouldn't be.

[Gravlen]

Explain.

Rittenhouse isn't a murderer, therefore it is right to defend him from the accusation of murder.

It's not right for the President to offer an opinion on what the outcome of an ongoing criminal case should be.

[Gravlen]

Trump encourages NC voters to vote twice to "test the system."

Trump really is the master of projection. After all that time complaining about voter fraud he openly encourages his supporters to carry out voter fraud.

“Let them send it in and let them go vote, and if their system’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote,”

Note that he's not saying it's our electoral system, it's theirs.

If a person has already mailed in an absentee ballot and goes to the polls on Election Day, records will show poll workers that the person has already voted, Mr. Gannon said. Or, if a person votes on Election Day and officials later receive that person’s absentee ballot, it will be “spoiled” and not counted, he said.

“Intentional willful double voting is a felony,” Mr. Gannon added.

We knew that it was against the law to attempt to vote twice right? If you knew, you know more about the laws than the useless AG Barr.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Rittenhouse isn't a murderer, therefore it is right to defend him from the accusation of murder.

It's not right for the President to offer an opinion on what the outcome of an ongoing criminal case should be.

That the President has an opinion on him, tells me he's a dead cert for a pardon.

Though I don't know how likely it is the trial will happen and be finished by January. That line of inquiry belongs in the other thread.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Trump encourages NC voters to vote twice to "test the system."

Trump really is the master of projection. After all that time complaining about voter fraud he openly encourages his supporters to carry out voter fraud.

“Let them send it in and let them go vote, and if their system’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote,”

Note that he's not saying it's our electoral system, it's theirs.

"They" is usually Democrats. So he means target the blue states.

Though reading between the lines doesn't always work with Trump. It's like trying to read his mind

If a person has already mailed in an absentee ballot and goes to the polls on Election Day, records will show poll workers that the person has already voted, Mr. Gannon said. Or, if a person votes on Election Day and officials later receive that person’s absentee ballot, it will be “spoiled” and not counted, he said.

“Intentional willful double voting is a felony,” Mr. Gannon added.

We knew that it was against the law to attempt to vote twice right? If you knew, you know more about the laws than the useless AG Barr.

Right on.

Any charges brought would have to prove it was willful. While I admit I was wrong with "president said it so I thought it was legal" and that's just an ignorance-of-the-law defense, there still might be something along the lines of "I forgot I postal voted" or "I believed that postal votes don't count at all, so I wasn't really voting".

Hopefully the system of checking postal vote names against in-person vote names, works flawlessly. And whether the double-voters are prosecuted or not, I hope most of those cheats turn out to be Republican! Actual office-holders at some level would be ideal ...

[Slaughter None]

Woman assaults boy carrying Trump sign:-
https://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-boy ... trump-sign

[Shrillland]

Woman assaults boy carrying Trump sign:-
https://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-boy ... trump-sign

Unfortunately, yours is a dead link. Fortunately, here's one that isn't: https://www.dailycamera.com/2020/09/01/boulder-police-investigating-after-12-year-old-with-trump-sign-assaulted/

What a miserable place this land is turning into...

[Blargoblarg]

Starting to get campaign materials in the mail, got a card that accused Biden of being taken over by the "radical left" and as I was looking at it my only thought was 'damn, I wish.'

I've been seeing a lot of Republican ads on TV and online recently claiming Biden and the rest of the Democratic establishment are "radical leftists". I wish they were, because then I'd actually be willing to vote for them.

[Cannot think of a name]

Starting to get campaign materials in the mail, got a card that accused Biden of being taken over by the "radical left" and as I was looking at it my only thought was 'damn, I wish.'

I've been seeing a lot of Republican ads on TV and online recently claiming Biden and the rest of the Democratic establishment are "radical leftists". I wish they were, because then I'd actually be willing to vote for them.

Actually, this might in fact be genius. He tells his gullible base about the scary scary left that wants to give them healthcare, an improved environment, and a less overworked police force, and at the same time reminds the hipster left that they’re not getting any of that so they can go ahead and stay home or pretend they’re down with third parties once every four years.

[Telconi]

Not to give credit to Trump for being a master of 4D chess, but the reactions at his statement make it appear that the voting system is more vulnerable to fraud than first believed.

Imagine if this was any other other crime.

Trump: "I've changed my mind about rioting. It's OK, but only if you loot stuff"
Democrats: "What the actual fucking fuck you fucking fascist fuck?"
Northern Davincia: "This makes it appear shops are more vulnerable to looting than first believed"

Make it a property crime instead of an electoral crime ... and watch ND flip that flop

Well property crimes are actually wrong so...

[Thermodolia]

Meanwhile, in today's news from across the states, Mississippi's flag commission has made their choice. They chose:

(Image)

Flag Number 4! They said there would be some minor alterations to it, the main one being that "In God We Trust" would be bolded.

Well I’m glad they at least choose a flag that looks ok and isn’t a shield on a bedsheet

[Thermodolia]

This applies to both of you, campaigns can automatically go through a voter file to deem whether a certain voter is sympathetic to either party. It also allows them access to your phone number.

Organizers will then send you automated messages and calls in hope that you're one of them. I guess you guys looked like a likely Republican and a likely Democrat, respectively.

I'm registered independent and I received both a pro-Biden and an anti-Biden postcard in the mail today, so this checks out.

I have gotten nothing. Though my email inbox has been flooded with pro Biden shit

[Thermodolia]

No, I was just using your own words. But I don't see any other way to topple the PRC in the span of 4 years.

The same was said about the Soviet Union until the 20th Century’s Holy Trinity (Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II) toppled it and subsequently contained communism

The thing is that the Soviets made a lot of mistakes themselves. If they didn’t they’d likely still be here. For example no gorby means no talks with the US and no opening up of anything.

[Thermodolia]

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1301280020682412034?s=20

New Arizona poll has Martha McSally (R) losing by 17 to Mark Kelly!!!!

Zowie. And I can't see Biden losing AZ to Trump if McSally gets trounced there that badly. An AZ win allows Biden to lose any one of the rust belt three - WI, MI or PA and still win the EC.

WI is going to vote Trump. I don’t see them going for Biden.

[Thermodolia]

Rittenhouse isn't a murderer, therefore it is right to defend him from the accusation of murder.

Sure, bud. What do you know that the DA in WI doesn't?

And do you somehow expect Trump to pardon him before his prosecution?

The Prosecution statement of facts Prosecution statement of facts pretty much says it’s self defense. The DA really didn’t want to charge him with anything, which is why he overcharged him knowing that he’ll walk.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Imagine if this was any other other crime.

Trump: "I've changed my mind about rioting. It's OK, but only if you loot stuff"
Democrats: "What the actual fucking fuck you fucking fascist fuck?"
Northern Davincia: "This makes it appear shops are more vulnerable to looting than first believed"

Make it a property crime instead of an electoral crime ... and watch ND flip that flop

Well property crimes are actually wrong so...

Electoral crimes are wrong too.
Voters cheating so they get 2 votes is wrong.
Trump urging voters to try to get 2 votes is ... wrong.

I suppose it could be worse. There's a way to vote 3 times. But I don't think I'll tell you!

[Borderlands of Rojava]

He’s a Republican and the president so it’s ok. Republicans in congress should be shouting this down

Oh come on, I think it's old news that no congressional Republican gives a hoot what you think.

Or about the law, or basic morality, or the future of america, or freedom.