Possible War in Israel (again): Atheris got it right?

[American Pere Housh]

I support Israel fully and if Hamas wants to pick a fight with the IDF, it is their fault for getting their asses handed to them.

[-Astoria-]

Israel has a superior level of civilization and economic development than any of its immediate neighbors. On that basis alone, the US should support Israel. Why should any Western developed nations support Palestine just to be popular with the Arab nations? Those western countries that do back middle eastern regimes usually get terrorism and unwanted migration in return.

Qatar has the GDP(PPP) per capita on the planet so...

"has the GDP"?

[VlaRiSsiA]

I support Israel fully and if Hamas wants to pick a fight with the IDF, it is their fault for getting their asses handed to them.

Is it the fault of the 10,000+ Palestinian civilians killed by the IDF in the past decade for getting their lives taken?

[Ansarre]

I live in Europe and I can confidently say a black person will experience more racism in Europe than goyim will in Israel.

I thought you said you were in Tel Aviv (or am I mistaking for someone else?).

I have family who live in Tel Aviv and I visit them every 1-2 years.

[Major-Tom]

If war breaks out, I'm in favor of Israel annexing Gaza permanently. Its status as a Hamas safe haven should end. Russia conquered Königsberg and made it their own as Kaliningrad. In the same way, Israel could plausibly do so with Gaza. It is the best outcome that could be had from my perspective.

I don't even think hardliners a la Bibi really want this in the long-run. That sort of violence only begets more violence and feelings of total mistrust, something Meretz supporters and even Likudites alike understand.

There's a peace process somewhere to be found, both sides are just too fucking headstrong to try at a lasting attempt one last time.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Israel has a superior level of civilization and economic development than any of its immediate neighbors. On that basis alone, the US should support Israel. Why should any Western developed nations support Palestine just to be popular with the Arab nations? Those western countries that do back middle eastern regimes usually get terrorism and unwanted migration in return.

Qatar has the GDP(PPP) per capita on the planet so...

If you divide a million dollars between two guys, and only give one of them a single dollar out of the money pile the GDPPC is $500k.

[VlaRiSsiA]

Qatar has the GDP(PPP) per capita on the planet so...

If you divide a million dollars between two guys, and only give one of them a single dollar out of the money pile the GDPPC is $500k.

I’m not saying Qatar doesn’t have severe inequality, I’m saying that not every Middle Eastern country is an impoverished S-hole like what so many people claim. Qatar, while with lots of wealth disparity, is doing rather successfully in spite of MBS’ blockade against them. They, along with most other gulf states, are extremely developed and economically powerful. The gulf states are tyrannical fascist states(like Israel) but they are not really less developed or poorer than Israel.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

If you divide a million dollars between two guys, and only give one of them a single dollar out of the money pile the GDPPC is $500k.

I’m not saying Qatar doesn’t have severe inequality, I’m saying that not every Middle Eastern country is an impoverished S-hole like what so many people claim. Qatar, while with lots of wealth disparity, is doing rather successfully in spite of MBS’ blockade against them. They, along with most other gulf states, are extremely developed and economically powerful. The gulf states are tyrannical fascist states(like Israel) but they are not really less developed or poorer than Israel.

Is a country really rich if there is no actual middle class and the wealth is divided between the ruling aristocracy that makes up maybe 2% of the population and the 98% serfs and migrant workers?

[Novus America]

If you divide a million dollars between two guys, and only give one of them a single dollar out of the money pile the GDPPC is $500k.

I’m not saying Qatar doesn’t have severe inequality, I’m saying that not every Middle Eastern country is an impoverished S-hole like what so many people claim. Qatar, while with lots of wealth disparity, is doing rather successfully in spite of MBS’ blockade against them. They, along with most other gulf states, are extremely developed and economically powerful. The gulf states are tyrannical fascist states(like Israel) but they are not really less developed or poorer than Israel.

I mean when you have a a mere 313,000 citizens on a fuckton of oil, unless you are Maduro level dumb your are going to automatically be generating a ton of money per population, not having to do any work at all.

It is not at all impressive given those circumstances.

[Novus America]

Israel has a superior level of civilization and economic development than any of its immediate neighbors. On that basis alone, the US should support Israel. Why should any Western developed nations support Palestine just to be popular with the Arab nations? Those western countries that do back middle eastern regimes usually get terrorism and unwanted migration in return.

Qatar has the GDP(PPP) per capita on the planet so...

It is not an immediate neighbor though. Israel’s only immediate neighbors are Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.

[Giovenith]

If war breaks out, I'm in favor of Israel annexing Gaza permanently. Its status as a Hamas safe haven should end. Russia conquered Königsberg and made it their own as Kaliningrad. In the same way, Israel could plausibly do so with Gaza. It is the best outcome that could be had from my perspective.

*** 7-day-ban for Trolling/Advocating death ***

[Solvokina]

I'm still waiting on a war against Israel for the nation to be held accountable for crimes against humanity. Later I don't care what happens to it, annexed, reformed, puppeted, etc. IDF have committed enough crimes to the Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Its time for them to have punishment and those held accountable

[Trollgaard]

If war breaks out, I'm in favor of Israel annexing Gaza permanently. Its status as a Hamas safe haven should end. Russia conquered Königsberg and made it their own as Kaliningrad. In the same way, Israel could plausibly do so with Gaza. It is the best outcome that could be had from my perspective.

*** 7-day-ban for Trolling/Advocating death ***

How did you extrapolate that from the post you quoted?

Seems excessive.

[Drew Durrnil]

If war breaks out, I'm in favor of Israel annexing Gaza permanently. Its status as a Hamas safe haven should end. Russia conquered Königsberg and made it their own as Kaliningrad. In the same way, Israel could plausibly do so with Gaza. It is the best outcome that could be had from my perspective.

I want Gaza to be annexed because of the border gore

[Picairn]

I'm still waiting on a war against Israel for the nation to be held accountable for crimes against humanity. Later I don't care what happens to it, annexed, reformed, puppeted, etc. IDF have committed enough crimes to the Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Its time for them to have punishment and those held accountable

Yeah no, last time the Arabs tried, they got their asses kicked and Israel even got the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights as rewards. Until now they still keep the Golan as a warning for anyone who wants to try a repeat of 1967 again.

The Egyptians (and Arabs) are lucky that Israel didn't permanently annex the Sinai Peninsula.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Israel is perpetrating a Nazi-style genocide against a population that has grown continuously over the past 70 or so years. Some genocide.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

*** 7-day-ban for Trolling/Advocating death ***

How did you extrapolate that from the post you quoted?

Seems excessive.

Russia did expel the rest of the German population in Kaliningrad. Sai is suggesting that Israel do the same, so I guess that's how it came off as trollish.

[The Baton Rouge Free State]

Israel is perpetrating a Nazi-style genocide against a population that has grown continuously over the past 70 or so years. Some genocide.

During the Nakba Israel killed over 100,000 Palestinian civilians and forcibly removed over 700,000 from their homes (both are considered genocide by the Geneva Convention and UN Human Rights Treaty), the in the following decades Israel killed about 20,000 Palestinian Civilians per decade, in the 1980s and 1990s this decreased to about 10,000 per decade, since 1999 approximately 30,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel, nearly 5,000 alone were children, the about 10,000 were adults, and the rest were Palestinian government officials, wrongfully arrested Arab Israelis, etc. this is all the killing that has been done In Palestine alone, not including the Palestinians living in the Sinai or south Lebanon, where Israel committed numerous atrocities and war crimes as well.

Of course there were thousands killed by a Jewish Extremists before the foundation of Israel, and the British cite the primary cause of their early withdrawal from the region (their original intention was to remain until the 1950s to ensure a peaceful transition) was rampant Jewish terrorism and the murder of over a hundred British soldiers and officers.

[Kowani]

Israel is perpetrating a Nazi-style genocide against a population that has grown continuously over the past 70 or so years. Some genocide.

Literally nobody has suggested this. The closet thing you could get was WRA calling Gaza a ghetto in the vein of the Nazis.
That’s it.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Israel is perpetrating a Nazi-style genocide against a population that has grown continuously over the past 70 or so years. Some genocide.

During the Nakba Israel killed over 100,000 Palestinian civilians and forcibly removed over 700,000 from their homes (both are considered genocide by the Geneva Convention and UN Human Rights Treaty), the in the following decades Israel killed about 20,000 Palestinian Civilians per decade, in the 1980s and 1990s this decreased to about 10,000 per decade, since 1999 approximately 30,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel, nearly 5,000 alone were children, the about 10,000 were adults, and the rest were Palestinian government officials, wrongfully arrested Arab Israelis, etc. this is all the killing that has been done In Palestine alone, not including the Palestinians living in the Sinai or south Lebanon, where Israel committed numerous atrocities and war crimes as well.

Of course there were thousands killed by a Jewish Extremists before the foundation of Israel, and the British cite the primary cause of their early withdrawal from the region (their original intention was to remain until the 1950s to ensure a peaceful transition) was rampant Jewish terrorism and the murder of over a hundred British soldiers and officers.

I'd like a source for your grossly exaggerated figures. Israel killed nowhere near as many Arabs, both combatants and civilians combined, throughout its entire existence as you falsely claim. Israel did not "forcibly remove 700,000 Arabs from their homes", and this was before anyone started calling them Palestinians. While it is true that Israel forcibly expelled *some* Arabs, most of them either fled or were assured by the invading Arab powers that the Jews would be expelled from the region and that they would be able to return, only to never return.

They were hoping the Jews would be ethnically cleansed or exterminated, therefore they and their descendants deserve their current plight today for waging and losing multiple wars of attempted genocide against Israel and refusing multiple and repeated overtures toward a lasting peace deal for the past 70+ years. The Trump deal's the most they're getting. There was and has never been a "Palestinian genocide". Such a notion is simply laughable and demonstrably false given the growing population of Palestinians.

Not to mention 800,000 Jews fled or were forcibly expelled by Arab and Muslim governments following Israel's Declaration of Independence. The Palestinian "refugees", if you can even call them "Palestinian" or "refugees" given that many, if not most, of them, were born and raised in other Arab countries and denied citizenship by those countries as a means to prolong the conflict and maintain a convenient scapegoat if things ever go south for their governments, have a "right of return" to present-day Israel where they will inevitably outnumber the indigenous Israeli Jews and reduce them to second-class citizens in their own country just like the minorities of any other Muslim-majority country such as my own, while Jews and Israelis have no rights in any Arab or Muslim country unless they are Western diplomats or something. "Open borders" ideology only applies to certain types of people, it seems.

Why not call "Al-Nakba" what it really is: One side of a mutual and unsurprisingly rather messy population exchange that occurred in the context of a war of national independence similar to the inevitably bloody exchanges that occurred between India and Pakistan in the wake of Partition in 1947.

---

Just to circle back to the OP, I hope there isn't another full-blown war between Israel and Gaza (i.e. Hamas), but if there is, I hope Israel decides to finish these terrorists off and overthrow Hamas once and for all so they can no longer hold the people of Gaza hostage and their lives finally begin to improve. Had Israel simply withdrawn its settlers but kept its forces in place, life for Arab Gazans would never have gotten so bad because there would have been no terrorist state to sanction and blockade.

But I also fear that in the process of eliminating Hamas, any civilian casualties, particularly on the Palestinian side, will once again serve as shameless propaganda with which to further scapegoat, delegitimize, and demonize Israel and facilitate its international isolation simply for the "crime" of defending its borders and national sovereignty, as some have very clearly demonstrated in this thread when they claim that Israel "deliberately kills civilians" and/or is "committing genocide" and cite as "evidence" the much higher ratio of Palestinians to Israelis killed in the recent Israel-Gaza wars, as if that somehow "proves" some kind of sinister intent, which is exactly what Hamas wants them to think.

Are they suggesting that in order for Israelis not to be genocidal villains, more Israelis must die in a shooting war with Hamas, or that Israel must simply lie down and take the rockets, balloons, and terror tunnel attacks lying down? Ever heard of Hamas' use of Palestinian human shields, a double war crime that endangers their fellow Arabs while rockets fly with impunity into Israeli border towns and communities? No other country is held to such an impossibly high standard. Not even the United States was condemned and threatened with boycott, divestment, and sanctions for bombing ISIS targets in Syrian Rojava, inadvertently killing large numbers of Kurdish civilians in the process. We should call it what it is: antisemitism.

Gaza shouldn't even be Israel's responsibility. It's already a de facto independent country. It would be even more independent were it not for the terror tunnels, the balloon attacks, and the misuse of construction and other materials to build yet more terror tunnels and carry out yet more attacks against Israel, hence the reason Israel imposed a blockade in the first place; a blockade that they occasionally lift and *free* electricity that they supply from time to time to prevent Gazans from starving and dying outright, unlike the Assad regime's siege of Aleppo and other Syrian cities that actually led to starvation and that nobody cares one bit about because Palestinian lives matter more than Syrian lives, Arab lives matter more than Jewish lives, and Muslim lives matter more than Christian and non-Muslim lives. Classic identity politics AKA racism and antisemitism.

Egypt also controls the Rafah crossing with Gaza, yet Hamas doesn't shell the Sinai peninsula and the international community has largely ignored Egypt's role in closing off Hamas to the outside world because Egypt is an Arab-Muslim country and that contradicts the anti-Zionist, anti-Western narrative that Islamists and woke, intersectional leftists are keen to push.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Israel is perpetrating a Nazi-style genocide against a population that has grown continuously over the past 70 or so years. Some genocide.

Literally nobody has suggested this. The closet thing you could get was WRA calling Gaza a ghetto in the vein of the Nazis.
That’s it.

A lot of people, some of whom I personally know and care about, have suggested precisely this; the very same people who believe the Jews are obsessed with making lots and lots of money, control Wall Street, the media, Hollywood, and everything else, but somehow I'm the racist for suggesting that *maybe* it's the Arabs and Muslims who are in the wrong and Israel's actions are (mostly) justified. 50% of Malaysians hold antisemitic attitudes according to the ADL. When I point out Palestinian population growth, they move the goalpost and argue that Israel is "trying" to commit genocide. They are so dead set against Israel it's horrifying.

[Kowani]

Literally nobody has suggested this. The closet thing you could get was WRA calling Gaza a ghetto in the vein of the Nazis.
That’s it.

A lot of people, some of whom I personally know and care about, have suggested precisely this; the very same people who believe the Jews are obsessed with making lots and lots of money, control Wall Street, the media, Hollywood, and everything else, but somehow I'm the racist for suggesting that *maybe* it's the Arabs and Muslims who are in the wrong and Israel's actions are (mostly) justified. 50% of Malaysians hold antisemitic attitudes according to the ADL. When I point out Palestinian population growth, they move the goalpost and argue that Israel is "trying" to commit genocide. They are so dead set against Israel it's horrifying.

Yes. Personal anecdotes and the attitudes of people not on these discussion boards.
Look, I realize that you like to rail against the strawmen and rhetorically dishonest people you identify with your political opponents, but it’s a bad debate tactic.

[Loben III]

Meh, a couple a decade seems to be on schedule.

[Betoni]

During the Nakba Israel killed over 100,000 Palestinian civilians and forcibly removed over 700,000 from their homes (both are considered genocide by the Geneva Convention and UN Human Rights Treaty), the in the following decades Israel killed about 20,000 Palestinian Civilians per decade, in the 1980s and 1990s this decreased to about 10,000 per decade, since 1999 approximately 30,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel, nearly 5,000 alone were children, the about 10,000 were adults, and the rest were Palestinian government officials, wrongfully arrested Arab Israelis, etc. this is all the killing that has been done In Palestine alone, not including the Palestinians living in the Sinai or south Lebanon, where Israel committed numerous atrocities and war crimes as well.

Of course there were thousands killed by a Jewish Extremists before the foundation of Israel, and the British cite the primary cause of their early withdrawal from the region (their original intention was to remain until the 1950s to ensure a peaceful transition) was rampant Jewish terrorism and the murder of over a hundred British soldiers and officers.

I'd like a source for your grossly exaggerated figures. Israel killed nowhere near as many Arabs, both combatants and civilians combined, throughout its entire existence as you falsely claim. Israel did not "forcibly remove 700,000 Arabs from their homes", and this was before anyone started calling them Palestinians. While it is true that Israel forcibly expelled *some* Arabs, most of them either fled or were assured by the invading Arab powers that the Jews would be expelled from the region and that they would be able to return, only to never return.

They were hoping the Jews would be ethnically cleansed or exterminated, therefore they and their descendants deserve their current plight today for waging and losing multiple wars of attempted genocide against Israel and refusing multiple and repeated overtures toward a lasting peace deal for the past 70+ years. The Trump deal's the most they're getting. There was and has never been a "Palestinian genocide". Such a notion is simply laughable and demonstrably false given the growing population of Palestinians.

Not to mention 800,000 Jews fled or were forcibly expelled by Arab and Muslim governments following Israel's Declaration of Independence. The Palestinian "refugees", if you can even call them "Palestinian" or "refugees" given that many, if not most, of them, were born and raised in other Arab countries and denied citizenship by those countries as a means to prolong the conflict and maintain a convenient scapegoat if things ever go south for their governments, have a "right of return" to present-day Israel where they will inevitably outnumber the indigenous Israeli Jews and reduce them to second-class citizens in their own country just like the minorities of any other Muslim-majority country such as my own, while Jews and Israelis have no rights in any Arab or Muslim country unless they are Western diplomats or something. "Open borders" ideology only applies to certain types of people, it seems.

Why not call "Al-Nakba" what it really is: One side of a mutual and unsurprisingly rather messy population exchange that occurred in the context of a war of national independence similar to the inevitably bloody exchanges that occurred between India and Pakistan in the wake of Partition in 1947.

---

Just to circle back to the OP, I hope there isn't another full-blown war between Israel and Gaza (i.e. Hamas), but if there is, I hope Israel decides to finish these terrorists off and overthrow Hamas once and for all so they can no longer hold the people of Gaza hostage and their lives finally begin to improve. Had Israel simply withdrawn its settlers but kept its forces in place, life for Arab Gazans would never have gotten so bad because there would have been no terrorist state to sanction and blockade.

But I also fear that in the process of eliminating Hamas, any civilian casualties, particularly on the Palestinian side, will once again serve as shameless propaganda with which to further scapegoat, delegitimize, and demonize Israel and facilitate its international isolation simply for the "crime" of defending its borders and national sovereignty, as some have very clearly demonstrated in this thread when they claim that Israel "deliberately kills civilians" and/or is "committing genocide" and cite as "evidence" the much higher ratio of Palestinians to Israelis killed in the recent Israel-Gaza wars, as if that somehow "proves" some kind of sinister intent, which is exactly what Hamas wants them to think.

Are they suggesting that in order for Israelis not to be genocidal villains, more Israelis must die in a shooting war with Hamas, or that Israel must simply lie down and take the rockets, balloons, and terror tunnel attacks lying down? Ever heard of Hamas' use of Palestinian human shields, a double war crime that endangers their fellow Arabs while rockets fly with impunity into Israeli border towns and communities? No other country is held to such an impossibly high standard. Not even the United States was condemned and threatened with boycott, divestment, and sanctions for bombing ISIS targets in Syrian Rojava, inadvertently killing large numbers of Kurdish civilians in the process. We should call it what it is: antisemitism.

Gaza shouldn't even be Israel's responsibility. It's already a de facto independent country. It would be even more independent were it not for the terror tunnels, the balloon attacks, and the misuse of construction and other materials to build yet more terror tunnels and carry out yet more attacks against Israel, hence the reason Israel imposed a blockade in the first place; a blockade that they occasionally lift and *free* electricity that they supply from time to time to prevent Gazans from starving and dying outright, unlike the Assad regime's siege of Aleppo and other Syrian cities that actually led to starvation and that nobody cares one bit about because Palestinian lives matter more than Syrian lives, Arab lives matter more than Jewish lives, and Muslim lives matter more than Christian and non-Muslim lives. Classic identity politics AKA racism and antisemitism.

Egypt also controls the Rafah crossing with Gaza, yet Hamas doesn't shell the Sinai peninsula and the international community has largely ignored Egypt's role in closing off Hamas to the outside world because Egypt is an Arab-Muslim country and that contradicts the anti-Zionist, anti-Western narrative that Islamists and woke, intersectional leftists are keen to push.

The fact that Israel has in the past, and debatably still does, targeted civilians quite intentionally cannot be excused because someone else is doing it. Link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Israeli_war_crimes

The fact that people aren't discussing the evils of USA, Iran, Iraq etc in a thread dealing with Israel is in no way antisemitic. Get over your persecution complex and deal with it.

[Asle Leopolka]

Where have I heard this before....