NationStates

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/worl ... g-sea.html

Greece is abandoning 1000 plus migrants at sea. These are migrants that were on dry land in Greece they were taken to international waters and dumped with a life jacket on. I am sorry if this OP is sparse I am just at a loss for words at the moment. Even my most in character antics do not approach dump a thousand people at sea.

What sort of sanctions can we bring to bear against Greece to stop this.

Greed and Death wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/world/europe/greece-migrants-abandoning-sea.html

Greece is abandoning 1000 plus migrants at sea. These are migrants that were on dry land in Greece they were taken to international waters and dumped with a life jacket on. I am sorry if this OP is sparse I am just at a loss for words at the moment. Even my most in character antics do not approach dump a thousand people at sea.

What sort of sanctions can we bring to bear against Greece to stop this.

Give them a boot from the EU, and aggressive economic sanctions ought to do the trick.

Greece has no responsibility for people trying to illegally enter their territory so far as I can tell. They're on their own in international waters. If the globe gets too hot and there are waves of people moving to colder regions, I can guarantee that Russia or where ever else wouldn't do any better.

Greece has no responsibility and turkey is close enough to travel too. Hardly abandonment.

"genocide" lol ok

Loben III wrote:Greece has no responsibility and turkey is close enough to travel too. Hardly abandonment.

Driving them to Turkey is one thing dumping them at sea and hoping the Turkish coast guard saves them is another.

Greece has a responsibility to not dump them off in the ocean.

Greed and Death wrote:

Loben III wrote:Greece has no responsibility and turkey is close enough to travel too. Hardly abandonment.

Driving them to Turkey is one thing dumping them at sea and hoping the Turkish coast guard saves them is another.

Greece has a responsibility to not dump them off in the ocean.

Do they have a responsibility to them at all?

Loben III wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:Driving them to Turkey is one thing dumping them at sea and hoping the Turkish coast guard saves them is another.

Greece has a responsibility to not dump them off in the ocean.

Do they have a responsibility to them at all?

no. they're illegal immigrants.

Greed and Death wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/world/europe/greece-migrants-abandoning-sea.html

Greece is abandoning 1000 plus migrants at sea. These are migrants that were on dry land in Greece they were taken to international waters and dumped with a life jacket on. I am sorry if this OP is sparse I am just at a loss for words at the moment. Even my most in character antics do not approach dump a thousand people at sea.

What sort of sanctions can we bring to bear against Greece to stop this.

illegal migrants, you should worry about Turkey, how they genocided Greeks and drove them from their lands en mass and now re-converted the hagia sophia into a mosque and throwing refuggees into Greek lands.

bonus points: The EU is a recycled SJW version of the 3rd reich.

I agree with the OP in that dumping them in the sea and just assuming someone will save them is very, very wrong. That being said, I don’t think genocide is the right term to describe this.

Loben III wrote:Greece has no responsibility and turkey is close enough to travel too. Hardly abandonment.

Saiwania wrote:Greece has no responsibility for people trying to illegally enter their territory so far as I can tell. They're on their own in international waters. If the globe gets too hot and there are waves of people moving to colder regions, I can guarantee that Russia or where ever else wouldn't do any better.

Article says that this is violation of international law. That is not concerning enough? Leaving them to the same journey that they likely experienced a while back, which many are already aware is rather perilous.

Bear Stearns wrote:"genocide" lol ok

Yeah, I agree. While what Greece has done is a gross violation of the rights of the migrants as humans to safe shelter, genocide doesn’t cover the term.

OP, I suggest you change the title of the thread.

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:

Loben III wrote:Greece has no responsibility and turkey is close enough to travel too. Hardly abandonment.

Saiwania wrote:Greece has no responsibility for people trying to illegally enter their territory so far as I can tell. They're on their own in international waters. If the globe gets too hot and there are waves of people moving to colder regions, I can guarantee that Russia or where ever else wouldn't do any better.

Article says that this is violation of international law. That is not concerning enough? Leaving them to the same journey that they likely experienced a while back, which many are already aware is rather perilous.

Bear Stearns wrote:"genocide" lol ok

Yeah, I agree. While what Greece has done is a gross violation of the rights of the migrants as humans to safe shelter, genocide doesn’t cover the term.

OP, I suggest you change the title of the thread.

"international law" is a hilariously bad joke, like when the Saudi's were on the human rights panel.

Nazeroth wrote:

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Article says that this is violation of international law. That is not concerning enough? Leaving them to the same journey that they likely experienced a while back, which many are already aware is rather perilous.



Yeah, I agree. While what Greece has done is a gross violation of the rights of the migrants as humans to safe shelter, genocide doesn’t cover the term.

OP, I suggest you change the title of the thread.

"international law" is a hilariously bad joke, like when the Saudi's were on the human rights panel.

Or open air slave markets in Libya.

Loben III wrote:

Nazeroth wrote:
"international law" is a hilariously bad joke, like when the Saudi's were on the human rights panel.

Or open air slave markets in Libya.

yup

The speed in which people can defend letting other people drown is horrific.

Saiwania wrote:Greece has no responsibility for people trying to illegally enter their territory so far as I can tell. They're on their own in international waters. If the globe gets too hot and there are waves of people moving to colder regions, I can guarantee that Russia or where ever else wouldn't do any better.

There are no international waters in the Mediterranean.

Nazeroth wrote:

Loben III wrote:
Or open air slave markets in Libya.

yup

So you think that something needs to be done to save those people?

Nazeroth wrote:"international law" is a hilariously bad joke, like when the Saudi's were on the human rights panel.

It is obviously in error from my perspective, if the majority of countries don't observe it when given the same circumstances. Who or what enforces it? If its not enforced it is meaningless and is effectively just a legalese holdover that hasn't yet been revised or shelved to better reflect the realities of today's era. It is Cold War era crap that assumes that people fleeing for political reasons should be given safe passage or whatever else when it isn't practical now.

Mathuvan Union wrote:

Loben III wrote:
Do they have a responsibility to them at all?

no. they're illegal immigrants.

Even if they are illegal immigrants, there are better options, like turning or driving them away at Turkey instead of leaving them to drift away at sea, their fate at the hands of the ocean if they lack an engine.

As humans, these people still have a right to be treated decently, especially if they have done no crime (except for the illegal immigration). One would think they’d be better off at Greece because there they have not much concern about the security of the location, whether or not an air raid is to happen there and if food and water would be easily accessible.

Nazeroth wrote:

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Article says that this is violation of international law. That is not concerning enough? Leaving them to the same journey that they likely experienced a while back, which many are already aware is rather perilous.



Yeah, I agree. While what Greece has done is a gross violation of the rights of the migrants as humans to safe shelter, genocide doesn’t cover the term.

OP, I suggest you change the title of the thread.

"international law" is a hilariously bad joke, like when the Saudi's were on the human rights panel.

In the very least, at least it exists and is enforced in some form and there are quite a lot of people who would wish for a better implementation of such. Unlike Saudi Arabia, which as mentioned didn’t really have a good track record of implementing such rights.

I don´t think that genocide is the right term, but this is fucked up. Transport them back to Turkey by all means, but dropping them off in the ocean like that? Just fucking no.

Heloin wrote:

Nazeroth wrote:
yup

So you think that something needs to be done to save those people?

Turkish coast guard can fish them out if they are feeling inclined.

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:

Mathuvan Union wrote:no. they're illegal immigrants.

Even if they are illegal immigrants, there are better options, like turning or driving them away at Turkey instead of leaving them to drift away at sea, their fate at the hands of the ocean if they lack an engine.

As humans, these people still have a right to be treated decently, especially if they have done no crime (except for the illegal immigration). One would think they’d be better off at Greece because there they have not much concern about the security of the location, whether or not an air raid is to happen there and if food and water would be easily accessible.

Nazeroth wrote:
"international law" is a hilariously bad joke, like when the Saudi's were on the human rights panel.

In the very least, at least it exists and is enforced in some form and there are quite a lot of people who would wish for a better implementation of such. Unlike Saudi Arabia, which as mentioned didn’t really have a good track record of implementing such rights.

I want to be a scumbag and say they should'nt have come there in the first place, but they have been given life jackets. meaning that they're not immediately drowning and therefore it's not genocide. there are alternatives, this certainly isn't genocide.

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:

Mathuvan Union wrote:no. they're illegal immigrants.

Even if they are illegal immigrants, there are better options, like turning or driving them away at Turkey instead of leaving them to drift away at sea, their fate at the hands of the ocean if they lack an engine.

As humans, these people still have a right to be treated decently, especially if they have done no crime (except for the illegal immigration). One would think they’d be better off at Greece because there they have not much concern about the security of the location, whether or not an air raid is to happen there and if food and water would be easily accessible.

Nazeroth wrote:
"international law" is a hilariously bad joke, like when the Saudi's were on the human rights panel.

In the very least, at least it exists and is enforced in some form and there are quite a lot of people who would wish for a better implementation of such. Unlike Saudi Arabia, which as mentioned didn’t really have a good track record of implementing such rights.

I don't really give a crap, until nations like Turkey are actually held accountable Greece should handle business as they see fit, "international law" is just a weapon used by third world dictators to slam western nations like Israel and Greece.

in other words: Fuck'em

Heloin wrote:The speed in which people can defend letting other people drown is horrific.

Saiwania wrote:Greece has no responsibility for people trying to illegally enter their territory so far as I can tell. They're on their own in international waters. If the globe gets too hot and there are waves of people moving to colder regions, I can guarantee that Russia or where ever else wouldn't do any better.

There are no international waters in the Mediterranean.

Exactly. Is basic human decency to care for others so hard?

Loben III wrote:

Heloin wrote:So you think that something needs to be done to save those people?

Turkish coast guard can fish them out if they are feeling inclined.

but they won't. the medittaranean is a large place, therefore if they tried to find them, it would be hard. the sea is inky black, there's no signals of sorts.
what would the turks do with them anyway? force them back to where they came from?

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:

Heloin wrote:The speed in which people can defend letting other people drown is horrific.


There are no international waters in the Mediterranean.

Exactly. Is basic human decency to care for others so hard?

"basic human standards" these days often leads to " let thousands of migrants into your nation and if you don't want it your racist"