Greece dumps refugees in Ocean tells Turkey Deal with it

[Purpelia]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/greece.greekreporter.com/2018/10/17/one-in-three-greeks-lives-in-danger-of-poverty-data-show/amp/



I realize this is an older article but Greece doesn’t have the strongest economy.

They can’t afford to take anyone in much less deal with the violence.

If they can't afford it they should leave the Refugee Convention, the EU, and the Council of Europe, in addition to changing their domestic laws.

Until then, as long as Greece themselves say they will give the right of asylum to any refugee, they should abide by the obligations they have set for themselves.

Did they enter into these conventions voluntarily or were they bullied into it by the EU?

[Fedel]

It is off topic but since you made the statement:

- I would say that issues like the inferior economic situation of minorities tends to create more crimes in their communities leading to law enforcement officers having to deal with minorities more on a daily basis creating a perfectly natural ( if undesirable bias ) in many of them and I would agree this needs to be combated in a variety of ways. Would be interested in seeing a source on the court bias though. Haven't see evidence for that myself ( not saying it's not possible of course ).
- Read above.
- What's a "conentration camp" in your mind?
- Market forces discriminate against them. The US and state government discriminates in favor of minorities.

1. Concentration camp != extermination camp. What ICE is doing to groups of migrants does classify as putting them in concentration camps.
2. The federal and state governments do not discriminate.

1. I never said otherwise. I asked what classified as a "concentration camp" in THEIR mind.
2. They do. On the basis of race. In favor of minorities.

[Atheris]

Every sovereign state has a right to deny refugees access to its borders. While it may not be kosher, this is not genocide and the greeks are within there rights to deport them this way.

No they weren't. Their actions violated Greek laws.

Out of curiosity; which ones?

[Cordel One]

This do be a bruh moment

Nothing against you, but I saw pro Antifa, pro anarchism and anti police


Nah I’m not even gonna start

You do know what it means to be an anti-anti-fascist, right?

This conversation is off-topic anyways, it's best we return to talking about Greek atrocities instead of American ones.

[Gravlen]

I’m still waiting for this “genocide” OP speaks of

Enforcing basic national sovereignty is literally genocide

You're both wrong. It's not genocide, but violating the laws of the country is not enforcing national sovereignty.

[Atheris]

Nothing against you, but I saw pro Antifa, pro anarchism and anti police


Nah I’m not even gonna start

You do know what it means to be an anti-anti-fascist, right?

Not necessarily fascist. You can be against the actions enforced by most members of Antifa but still support being against fascism.

[Outer Acharet]

This is getting off-topic, but

-Cops and courts are biased against minorities and over police them.
-A ridiculously oversized percentage of the US prison population is minorities.
-ICE runs concentration camps.
-Minorities are de facto segregated from whites and it's more difficult to obtain a high-level job
-etc.

The US has a lot of problems we are not dumping Mexicans into the gulf of Mexico though.

NTM that the "concentration camps" are detention facilities with poor conditions due to a surge in populations being housed there and a lack of funding to adequately meet it. If they were concentration camps people wouldn't be coming back out again, at worst ICE facilities are internment camps.
Otherwise a lot of that can be blamed on the War on Drugs, some of the rest can be blamed on the fact that poor neighborhoods are over-policed and thanks to a hundred years of discrimination Black and Latino communities are overall poorer than White and Asian ones, and the remaining bit is indeed structural racism.

I personally don't think America should even exist anymore, they should just be separated by states with an alliance between them.

Smaller nations do tend to function better at administering their peoples...
Based shark man is based

[Gun Manufacturers]

Even if they are illegal immigrants, there are better options, like turning or driving them away at Turkey instead of leaving them to drift away at sea, their fate at the hands of the ocean if they lack an engine.

As humans, these people still have a right to be treated decently, especially if they have done no crime (except for the illegal immigration). One would think they’d be better off at Greece because there they have not much concern about the security of the location, whether or not an air raid is to happen there and if food and water would be easily accessible.



In the very least, at least it exists and is enforced in some form and there are quite a lot of people who would wish for a better implementation of such. Unlike Saudi Arabia, which as mentioned didn’t really have a good track record of implementing such rights.

I want to be a scumbag and say they should'nt have come there in the first place, but they have been given life jackets. meaning that they're not immediately drowning and therefore it's not genocide. there are alternatives, this certainly isn't genocide.

I'm sure the sharks in the Med will enjoy the bobbers, I mean life vests, too.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/world/europe/greece-migrants-abandoning-sea.html

Greece is abandoning 1000 plus migrants at sea. These are migrants that were on dry land in Greece they were taken to international waters and dumped with a life jacket on. I am sorry if this OP is sparse I am just at a loss for words at the moment. Even my most in character antics do not approach dump a thousand people at sea.

What sort of sanctions can we bring to bear against Greece to stop this.

Nobody needs to take refugees. My advice to my Greek brothers is to send them back to their country safely.

[Cordel One]

You do know what it means to be an anti-anti-fascist, right?

Not necessarily fascist. You can be against the actions enforced by most members of Antifa but still support being against fascism.

Antifa isn't a group, it's just a term for anti-fascists. If you're against what some anti-fascists do but still oppose fascism, you're antifa.

[Mannixa Prime]

This is why national sovereignty should always trump internationalism and the ghoulish neo-liberal ideology.

“bUt tHeY ViOlaTeD iNtErNaTiONal law”

Ok and?

What are you going to do?

Greece should just withdraw from any agreement they signed.

Canada America and the rest of Europe should do the same.

[Sao Nova Europa]

Every sovereign state has a right to deny refugees access to its borders. While it may not be kosher, this is not genocide and the greeks are within there rights to deport them this way.

No they weren't. Their actions violated Greek laws.

Greece temporarily suspended the right to asylum, so such push backs were legal. Also, they have the support of around 70%+ Greeks according to most polls.

[Outer Acharet]

This is why national sovereignty should always trump internationalism and the ghoulish neo-liberal ideology.

“bUt tHeY ViOlaTeD iNtErNaTiONal law”

Ok and?

What are you going to do?

Greece should just withdraw from any agreement they signed.

Canada America and the rest of Europe should do the same.

The bottom is a sandbox I don't feel like playing in, but the top is sorta true.

There is no real weight behind international law but consensus.

[Atheris]

NTM that the "concentration camps" are detention facilities with poor conditions due to a surge in populations being housed there and a lack of funding to adequately meet it. If they were concentration camps people wouldn't be coming back out again, at worst ICE facilities are internment camps.
Otherwise a lot of that can be blamed on the War on Drugs, some of the rest can be blamed on the fact that poor neighborhoods are over-policed and thanks to a hundred years of discrimination Black and Latino communities are overall poorer than White and Asian ones, and the remaining bit is indeed structural racism.

That's... the definition of a concentration camp.

[Fedel]

It is off topic but since you made the statement

- I would say that issues like the inferior economic situation of minorities tends to create more crimes in their communities leading to law enforcement officers having to deal with minorities more on a daily basis creating a perfectly natural ( if undesirable bias ) in many of them and I would agree this needs to be combated in a variety of ways. Would be interested in seeing a source on the court bias though. Haven't see evidence for that myself ( not saying it's not possible of course ).
- Read above.
- What's a "conentration camp" in your mind?
- Market forces discriminate against them. The US government discriminates in favor of minorities.

-It sure is interesting how they're in an inferior economic situation, it's almost like some outside influence is making it more difficult for them to succeed
-"a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities" - Oxford
-The market is racist, but the government really isn't helping.

- You never provided the stats on the courts being biased friendo.
- Probably the aftereffects of having no property and being treated as property themselves for hundreds of years and going into massive debt simply by working the land and existing in the South during the Jim Crow era along with a number of other factors.
- I don't see how holding illegal immigrants temporarily qualifies them as "political prisoners" or "persecuted minorities."
- The market isn't an entity that can hold feelings of racism. I agree that the government isn't helping my discriminating against others in favor of minorities though.

[Neuer Deutsches Reich]

Nothing against you, but I saw pro Antifa, pro anarchism and anti police


Nah I’m not even gonna start

You do know what it means to be an anti-anti-fascist, right?

The meaning of Antifa is anti-fascist, but the groups called Antifa act like fascists. I have seen them marching like how germany did in their dark times, I have seen them beat people up for being white or just standing in the wrong place, stealing and destroying around them, they don’t even support free speech.


I am against fascism, but no way will I support a group who is becoming like the very thing they swore to destroy.

you were said to destroy the fascists not join them!
-Obi Wan on Antifa

[Gravlen]

If they can't afford it they should leave the Refugee Convention, the EU, and the Council of Europe, in addition to changing their domestic laws.

Until then, as long as Greece themselves say they will give the right of asylum to any refugee, they should abide by the obligations they have set for themselves.

Did they enter into these conventions voluntarily or were they bullied into it by the EU?

Voluntarily.

They joined the CoE in 1949. They then signed up to the convention in 1960, 21 years before they became a member of the EEC. (By the way, Greece lied about their economic situation to get membership, so you can't say they were bullied at that point either)

[Sao Nova Europa]

Not necessarily fascist. You can be against the actions enforced by most members of Antifa but still support being against fascism.

Antifa isn't a group, it's just a term for anti-fascists. If you're against what some anti-fascists do but still oppose fascism, you're antifa.

If we accept that Antifa are antifascists because their name says so, we should also accept Nazis are socialists since their name means National Socialists.

[Greed and Death]

Did they enter into these conventions voluntarily or were they bullied into it by the EU?

Voluntarily.

They joined the CoE in 1949. They then signed up to the convention in 1960, 21 years before they became a member of the EEC. (By the way, Greece lied about their economic situation to get membership, so you can't say they were bullied at that point either)

I am sympathetic to Greece bearing the brunt of this crisis in the Mideast. The solution is to ask the EU to contribute more funds not to drop people in the ocean.

[Outer Acharet]

NTM that the "concentration camps" are detention facilities with poor conditions due to a surge in populations being housed there and a lack of funding to adequately meet it. If they were concentration camps people wouldn't be coming back out again, at worst ICE facilities are internment camps.
Otherwise a lot of that can be blamed on the War on Drugs, some of the rest can be blamed on the fact that poor neighborhoods are over-policed and thanks to a hundred years of discrimination Black and Latino communities are overall poorer than White and Asian ones, and the remaining bit is indeed structural racism.

That's... the definition of a concentration camp.

Yeah realized the idiocy of my statement a second after I hit "submit". I feel there's a distinction that these poor conditions aren't equal to Auschwitz, though, which I know is what the phrase "concentration camp" evokes. Hell, that's what it made me think of right before I wrote a poorly worded response.

[Mannixa Prime]

This is why national sovereignty should always trump internationalism and the ghoulish neo-liberal ideology.

“bUt tHeY ViOlaTeD iNtErNaTiONal law”

Ok and?

What are you going to do?

Greece should just withdraw from any agreement they signed.

Canada America and the rest of Europe should do the same.

The bottom is a sandbox I don't feel like playing in, but the top is sorta true.

There is no real weight behind international law but consensus.

And there isn’t much of a consensus on what do with refugees anyway. Especially with so many everyday citizens opposed to it.


It’s also ironic the same internationalist crowd that is advocating for refugees are the same people who caused the crisis in the first place.

Endless war in the Middle East, causesd by the same people who want to bring refugees in.

[Gravlen]

Greece should just withdraw from any agreement they signed.

But they haven't done so, and are obligated to honor their commitment until they do.

[Fartsniffage]

Antifa isn't a group, it's just a term for anti-fascists. If you're against what some anti-fascists do but still oppose fascism, you're antifa.

If we accept that Antifa are antifascists because their name says so, we should also accept Nazis are socialists since their name means National Socialists.

Oh don't be silly.

[Atheris]

You do know what it means to be an anti-anti-fascist, right?

The meaning of Antifa is anti-fascist, but the groups called Antifa act like fascists. I have seen them marching like how germany did in their dark times, I have seen them beat people up for being white or just standing in the wrong place, stealing and destroying around them, they don’t even support free speech.


I am against fascism, but no way will I support a group who is becoming like the very thing they swore to destroy.

you were said to destroy the fascists not join them!
-Obi Wan on Antifa

>using a religious fundamentalist responsible for the kidnapping and deaths of children hellbent on destroying stable society to talk about antifa

Well, I wouldn't go that far...

[Fedel]

NTM that the "concentration camps" are detention facilities with poor conditions due to a surge in populations being housed there and a lack of funding to adequately meet it. If they were concentration camps people wouldn't be coming back out again, at worst ICE facilities are internment camps.
Otherwise a lot of that can be blamed on the War on Drugs, some of the rest can be blamed on the fact that poor neighborhoods are over-policed and thanks to a hundred years of discrimination Black and Latino communities are overall poorer than White and Asian ones, and the remaining bit is indeed structural racism.

That's... the definition of a concentration camp.

Wow. I can't tell if you've actually bought the stuff you're spouting or not. That's how bad it's gotten.