8 year old arrested for battery for punching a teacher

[Parxland]

I went to school. If you think teachers have authority, or hell that teachers are for the most part not the weak and pointless underbelly of the professional world than you are wrong. I mean sure, you get the occasional snowflake that is there voluntarily. But for the most part he who does not know teaches is very much true. And teaching jobs are where dreams of professional success come to die.

Plenty of teachers post on NS, so consider yourself *** warned for trolling ***

You got OP and a few players advocating hitting kids and at least a few mods have seen that stuff but this gets a warning?

[Picairn]

Plenty of teachers post on NS, so consider yourself *** warned for trolling ***

You got OP and a few players advocating hitting kids, and mods are reading/replying but this gets a warning?

1. It's not hitting, more like arresting the kid, which is still bad.
2. They are expressing their opinions in a nuanced, civil way, not straight up go "Lol yes children should be punched and arrested!"
3. Read the Moderation forum to know why Purpelia was warned.

[Parxland]

(Image)

You got OP and a few players advocating hitting kids, and mods are reading/replying but this gets a warning?

1. It's not hitting, more like arresting the kid, which is still bad.
2. They are expressing their opinions in a nuanced, civil way, not straight up go "Lol yes children should be punched and arrested!"
3. Read the Moderation forum to know why Purpelia was warned.

---

Arresting and charging the kid was not needed. A simple conversation and maybe some anger management classes depending on the circumstances would be more than sufficient. We don´t always need to punish people. Sometimes a simple conversation and providing help goes a lot further.

He was arrested but I doubt he was charged (unless the woman effected wanted to press it and wouldn't relent). And there are some situations where only force is effective for short term compliance. Such as if a child is throwing a tantrum in a grocery store where they're being physical or damaging shelves/merchandise. The ideal solution is usually for their parents to resort to the belt in that example.

what is it with the mentality that hitting a child will make them more disciplined.

It works, people have been doing corporal punishment for thousands of years.

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1. It's not hitting, more like arresting the kid, which is still bad.
2. They are expressing their opinions in a nuanced, civil way, not straight up go "Lol yes children should be punched and arrested!"

I don't believe you.

[Nuroblav]

1. It's not hitting, more like arresting the kid, which is still bad.
2. They are expressing their opinions in a nuanced, civil way, not straight up go "Lol yes children should be punched and arrested!"
3. Read the Moderation forum to know why Purpelia was warned.

---

It works, people have been doing corporal punishment for thousands of years.

Agreed, what is it with the mentality that hitting a child will make them more disciplined.
Children have rights too.

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1. It's not hitting, more like arresting the kid, which is still bad.
2. They are expressing their opinions in a nuanced, civil way, not straight up go "Lol yes children should be punched and arrested!"

I don't believe you.

The NAIS one isn't advocating hitting kids...

[North American Imperial State]

1. It's not hitting, more like arresting the kid, which is still bad.
2. They are expressing their opinions in a nuanced, civil way, not straight up go "Lol yes children should be punched and arrested!"
3. Read the Moderation forum to know why Purpelia was warned.

---

It works, people have been doing corporal punishment for thousands of years.

Agreed, what is it with the mentality that hitting a child will make them more disciplined.
Children have rights too.

---

1. It's not hitting, more like arresting the kid, which is still bad.
2. They are expressing their opinions in a nuanced, civil way, not straight up go "Lol yes children should be punched and arrested!"

I don't believe you.

As per Nuroblav's post I am not the one advocating hitting children, please read peoples post more carefully.

---

---

I don't believe you.

The NAIS one isn't advocating hitting kids...

[Ghost Land]

Plenty of teachers post on NS, so consider yourself *** warned for trolling ***

You got OP and a few players advocating hitting kids and at least a few mods have seen that stuff but this gets a warning?

The reason Purpelia got warned is that his post seemed to be suggesting that teachers are "for the most part...the weak and pointless underbelly of the professional world". That's an attack against teachers as a broad group.

You obviously dont live in America.

Or takes higher-level courses like AP. In regular classes it feels like a morgue, from my experience, both parties are just there to do a job and leave. Totally different in advanced courses. People there care about what they're doing, both the teachers and the students.

In my experience, AP courses are little different from regular courses. A lot of kids feel pressured into taking as many AP courses as possible, which means you get a lot of kids in there who are, let's just say not the best of students, and a lot of people on both sides find the material in AP courses to be super-dry and boring, which isn't exactly conducive to enthusiasm for the class or attentive listening to the teacher either.

[Picairn]

I don't believe you.

First one is bad, but it's not breaking any rules in the forum. Not actionable.

Second one is not advocating. Re-read it more carefully.

Finally, you are free to believe whatever you want, doesn't matter if your beliefs are factually wrong anyway.

[Ethel mermania]

The only problem i have with the article is this ain't on the cops.

This is on the school, from the teacher through at least the principal if not the whole district (if it was a public school) The sub was untrained for the classroom, the district didn't inform the sub of the kids with IEP's. The principal knowing the kid thought calling the cops was the way to go?

A few people are going go lose their jobs, and Kid's going to be a millionaire. I don't have a problem with that.

Millions less spent on the education of the other students in that school. Hardly a good outcome, compared to the temp teacher being properly briefed by the school and the incident never happening ...

The teacher probably can't pay much, so it will mostly come out of the school's hide (and school district?)

The teacher is acting as an agent of the school, so it comes out of thr district. The kid was harmed by the district, the district pays for that harm, that's the way tort law works.

It also incents the school not to behave like buffoons when dealing with their charges, and do their jobs. This teacher was not prepared or qualified to deal with the kid, its a whole series of fuckups that lead to this traumatic event for a handicapped child. This is more than an isolated incident, its a system failure.

[Parxland]

As per Nuroblav's post I am not the one advocating hitting children, please read peoples post more carefully.

Thanks for pointing that out. It's an error I made while composing my post. It should look like this:

Agreed, what is it with the mentality that hitting a child will make them more disciplined.
Children have rights too.

It works, people have been doing corporal punishment for thousands of years.

I'm trying to edit the post to fix it. Sorry for any offense.

[North American Imperial State]

As per Nuroblav's post I am not the one advocating hitting children, please read peoples post more carefully.

Thanks for pointing that out. It's an error I made while composing my post. It should look like this:

It works, people have been doing corporal punishment for thousands of years.

I've gone back and edited the post to fix it. Sorry for any offense.

Hello, that's fine no offense taken

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Millions less spent on the education of the other students in that school. Hardly a good outcome, compared to the temp teacher being properly briefed by the school and the incident never happening ...

The teacher probably can't pay much, so it will mostly come out of the school's hide (and school district?)

The teacher is acting as an agent of the school, so it comes out of thr district. The kid was harmed by the district, the district pays for that harm, that's the way tort law works.

It also incents the school not to behave like buffoons when dealing with their charges, and do their jobs. This teacher was not prepared or qualified to deal with the kid, its a whole series of fuckups that lead to this traumatic event for a handicapped child. This is more than an isolated incident, its a system failure.

One aspect of the failure is that a temporary teacher was even there. It's like any other job: if you're thrown in the deep end you will make the most mistakes on day one, still make a few on day two, etc.

Sure this teacher might have had plenty of experience already. But they plainly didn't know the kid they were dealing with, while any regular teacher from that school would. They do talk in the staffroom.

You're not going to like this: schools should employ more teachers than they need. So if one calls in sick they don't need to roll the dice on a temporary teacher, and instead a regular teacher has to cancel their day off. The reason I guess you don't like it ... public schools would have to pay more teachers, and pay them more, and the whole education system would need to attract and train more teachers.

Well you knew I was going to throw money at the problem, don't act surprised

[Parxland]

Thanks for pointing that out. It's an error I made while composing my post. It should look like this:



I've gone back and edited the post to fix it. Sorry for any offense.

Hello, that's fine no offense taken

It's fixed. I gotta go report a technical issue now.

Anyway, I'm going to peace out and leave this thread, because it's too toxic for me and I'll probably get baited into breaking the rules if I actually engage in a discussion. If you're lurking or debating the people advocating for children to be beaten, be arrested, etc.; don't waste your time. This thread's been going on for 15 pages now? Yeah, those people aren't changing their minds. Just be wary of interacting with them on site.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Hello, that's fine no offense taken

It's fixed. I gotta go report a technical issue now.

Anyway, I'm going to peace out and leave this thread, because it's too toxic for me and I'll probably get baited into breaking the rules if I actually engage in a discussion. If you're lurking or debating the people advocating for children to be beaten, be arrested, etc.; don't waste your time. This thread's been going on for 15 pages now? Yeah, those people aren't changing their minds. Just be wary of interacting with them on site.

There was a thread specifically about corporal punishment of children. You might like it better. Though most of the good stuff in early in the thread. Because that was specifically the subject there were better arguments against.

[CoraSpia]

Someone as young as 8 years old shouldn't have a criminal record for the rest of his life because of one mistake. This child obviously did something wrong and him getting suspended seems like fit punishment. If the kid was older, say 16, and he punched a defenseless classmate, maybe there could be some issue there, but he is too young to even have started the transition towards adulthood and shouldn't be trapped from now on. I mean, when I was 8, several times bullies were huge jerks and punched me or even hurt me worse, but now, some of those guys are nice people and would never think to hurt someone. Getting somebody in jail with a criminal record for the rest of their life seems much too excessive to me.

Plenty of violent adults "could've been rehabilitated" if not for society's deterrence-centric approach. There is always a tradeoff. If society prioritizes deterrence against adults, and rehabilitation of children, does that not send the same "one side is immune from consequences, the other is not, so just stand there and don't do shit about it no matter how much this rewards their aggression unless you want your life to be over" message referred to in the OP?

You mention bullies who punched you. If other bullies got a criminal record, wouldn't the rest of them have been (relatively) more likely to think twice?

You seem to have the wrong take here.

How about we rehabilitate everybody because it works better in the long run?

[Ethel mermania]

The teacher is acting as an agent of the school, so it comes out of thr district. The kid was harmed by the district, the district pays for that harm, that's the way tort law works.

It also incents the school not to behave like buffoons when dealing with their charges, and do their jobs. This teacher was not prepared or qualified to deal with the kid, its a whole series of fuckups that lead to this traumatic event for a handicapped child. This is more than an isolated incident, its a system failure.

One aspect of the failure is that a temporary teacher was even there. It's like any other job: if you're thrown in the deep end you will make the most mistakes on day one, still make a few on day two, etc.

Sure this teacher might have had plenty of experience already. But they plainly didn't know the kid they were dealing with, while any regular teacher from that school would. They do talk in the staffroom.

You're not going to like this: schools should employ more teachers than they need. So if one calls in sick they don't need to roll the dice on a temporary teacher, and instead a regular teacher has to cancel their day off. The reason I guess you don't like it ... public schools would have to pay more teachers, and pay them more, and the whole education system would need to attract and train more teachers.

Well you knew I was going to throw money at the problem, don't act surprised

Full disclosure: I have a special needs child and mrs mermania is a special ed teacher.

Special ed schools here have subs and floaters to do exactly that. Most special ed classes have teachers and aides in the room, the ratio of kids to parents is defined by the disability. So a special ed class can be anywhere from one to one. (One adult per kid) to 1 to 8. (1 adult to 8 kids). Even schools with blended classrooms have aides in them and know the deal with the kids and would brief the sub as to what is going on in the class.

In this case there is a lot of failure here, and taking an admittedly brief look at it, I am pointing my finger at the management of thr special ed program in that district.


Teachers here get paid pretty well, and do pretty well.
Public schools here require a masters degree to get a permanent teaching certificate. I dont think but don't remember (Katganistan would know), if subs are required to have a masters. Aides not so much and without a union they get pretty much screwed (though some districts are much better with aides than others).

[Salandriagado]

Then you keep escalating up to "you're expelled, now you're not our problem".

To which they say "No." Again. And as you cannot physically prevent them from doing so, they return to school.

Expulsion has no weight without the ability to physically enforce it.

That literally never, ever happens.

[Mannixa Prime]

All I gather from this is that this shows the need for a properly funded safety net,mental health support, family support, more specialized education etc

[Thermodolia]

One aspect of the failure is that a temporary teacher was even there. It's like any other job: if you're thrown in the deep end you will make the most mistakes on day one, still make a few on day two, etc.

Sure this teacher might have had plenty of experience already. But they plainly didn't know the kid they were dealing with, while any regular teacher from that school would. They do talk in the staffroom.

You're not going to like this: schools should employ more teachers than they need. So if one calls in sick they don't need to roll the dice on a temporary teacher, and instead a regular teacher has to cancel their day off. The reason I guess you don't like it ... public schools would have to pay more teachers, and pay them more, and the whole education system would need to attract and train more teachers.

Well you knew I was going to throw money at the problem, don't act surprised

Full disclosure: I have a special needs child and mrs mermania is a special ed teacher.

Special ed schools here have subs and floaters to do exactly that. Most special ed classes have teachers and aides in the room, the ratio of kids to parents is defined by the disability. So a special ed class can be anywhere from one to one. (One adult per kid) to 1 to 8. (1 adult to 8 kids). Even schools with blended classrooms have aides in them and know the deal with the kids and would brief the sub as to what is going on in the class.

In this case there is a lot of failure here, and taking an admittedly brief look at it, I am pointing my finger at the management of thr special ed program in that district.


Teachers here get paid pretty well, and do pretty well.
Public schools here require a masters degree to get a permanent teaching certificate. I dont think but don't remember (Katganistan would know), if subs are required to have a masters. Aides not so much and without a union they get pretty much screwed (though some districts are much better with aides than others).

Here in Georgia subs are required to have at least a bachelor’s degree

[South Odreria 2]

The bleeding hearts got rid of hitting kids, and now we send them to jail instead. Now in this case maybe the kid didn’t even mean to do anything wrong, but that’s the situation we have.

[Page]

The bleeding hearts got rid of hitting kids, and now we send them to jail instead. Now in this case maybe the kid didn’t even mean to do anything wrong, but that’s the situation we have.

In other words, the "bleeding hearts" got rid of one kind of violence against kids, and now we have another kind of violence. How about no violence?

[Heloin]

The bleeding hearts got rid of hitting kids, and now we send them to jail instead. Now in this case maybe the kid didn’t even mean to do anything wrong, but that’s the situation we have.

In other words, the "bleeding hearts" got rid of one kind of violence against kids, and now we have another kind of violence. How about no violence?

Nah we need to embrace this, make violence the answer to everything. Going to court? Trail by combat! Getting a sandwich? Fight the staff to prove your worth! The humble handshake? A nice quick upper cut should do!

[Lanoraie II]

The bleeding hearts got rid of hitting kids, and now we send them to jail instead. Now in this case maybe the kid didn’t even mean to do anything wrong, but that’s the situation we have.

Riiiight, because physical abuse onto society's most vulnerable totally didn't backfire in large ways. It's not like the most poverty and violence stricken areas are also the places where physically assaulting children is considered routine and acceptable.

[Tompicaur]

Punching people in general is a bad thing and should never be tolerated but just imaging being a full grown adult charging a little 8 year old kid for battery and getting him/her arrested. I just think the teacher could have took a more mature route and maybe teach them a little bit about life.

[Madrinet]

Wow. In the UK you aren't considered to have the necessary cognitive ability to commit a criminal offence at that age; quite rightly, I think.

[Neutraligon]

Please do not gravedig