8 year old arrested for battery for punching a teacher

[Andsed]

Wait, this was started because the teacher did not like how he was sitting?! Your kidding right?

Read the two articles I attached upthread.
That I am a teacher and telling you that that sub and the entire administration fucked up and should be sued should tell you something. That other people who have subbed, and worked in schools before, are saying that the teacher and administration fucked up, should tell you something.

I totally agree. The way this sub acted was totally out of line and there is no world where that kid should have been arrested. The police and school should be investigated for this and I hope the family´s lawsuit succeeds.

[Geneviev]

Just making sure that teachers know about IEPs and care would probably be enough to prevent this sort of thing.

That would probably be a good thing to implement anyway, but I'm not sure it would have prevented this case.

It might have helped with the teacher. She really created the problem.

[Katganistan]

Oh, really?

viewtopic.php?p=33481380#p33481380


You do recall that Nationstates has a search function? Don't try to gaslight me.

Cut the crap. Either you severely misunderstood without bothering to ask for clarification or you're the one who's gaslighting here. I was plainly referring to the argument that "belief in Santa is an incentive for good behaviour." I was pointing out using such beliefs as incentive for good behaviour are no good when they can be faked anyway. You know, the same thing often said about belief in God? The same reason districts where belief in God is popular are not averse to surveillance? Clearly, people know that belief in God can be faked (and/or lead people down the wrong path anyway, but obviously the voters who redirected all that surveillance equipment to middle schools can't all think religion leads people down the wrong path) and therefore need a human being whose existence can be proven to watch them in a manner whose existence can be proven. Why would belief in Santa be any more reliable?

Of course kids have the right to their beliefs, just as adults have the right to their beliefs. I'm not trying to police the mind. I'm trying to police behaviour.

The post is what it is, LUNA, right there where anyone can see it. You can deny you wrote it or that it means something different from what you wrote, but that's pretty transparent given the tenor of virtually everything you have ever posted.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Cut the crap. Either you severely misunderstood without bothering to ask for clarification or you're the one who's gaslighting here. I was plainly referring to the argument that "belief in Santa is an incentive for good behaviour." I was pointing out using such beliefs as incentive for good behaviour are no good when they can be faked anyway. You know, the same thing often said about belief in God? The same reason districts where belief in God is popular are not averse to surveillance? Clearly, people know that belief in God can be faked (and/or lead people down the wrong path anyway, but obviously the voters who redirected all that surveillance equipment to middle schools can't all think religion leads people down the wrong path) and therefore need a human being whose existence can be proven to watch them in a manner whose existence can be proven. Why would belief in Santa be any more reliable?

Of course kids have the right to their beliefs, just as adults have the right to their beliefs. I'm not trying to police the mind. I'm trying to police behaviour.

The post is what it is, LUNA, right there where anyone can see it. You can deny you wrote it or that it means something different from what you wrote, but that's pretty transparent given the tenor of virtually everything you have ever posted.

If people on this website are stupid enough to ignore the context, please ban me. I don't want to keep feeding my unhealthy addiction to this site.

[The Blaatschapen]

The post is what it is, LUNA, right there where anyone can see it. You can deny you wrote it or that it means something different from what you wrote, but that's pretty transparent given the tenor of virtually everything you have ever posted.

If people on this website are stupid enough to ignore the context, please ban me. I don't want to keep feeding my unhealthy addiction to this site.

Scramble your password. Easy.

[Santa Selena]

This is just stupid. My brain is losing cells from what is going on, cause you don't arrest kids, especially ones with special needs!
You really must have a hard time telling Billy over here to sit nicely if you have to call the cops on him. He didn't even do anything really that bad to warrant some cops, the only thing being that he hit her! At the minimum, give him detention, suspension, maybe if it was that bad, an expulsion? Just not a criminal record!

I just can't fathom how weak that substitute is for calling the cops on a kid, she probably didn't know what to do with this one kid, and just went ham on him and scarred him for life by handing him over to cops! Like can't you bring in a counselor or someone who can deal with this?

Honestly, this is one of the most idiotic things I have seen. This is literally on par with when an autistic five year old got put on a sex offender's list for hugging and kissing a girl! Like i'm not asking for kids to be exempt from any crime whatsoever (that's how you end up with kids in gangs in South Africa), but at least only arrest them if they did the worst of the worst! And by that I mean not punching a lady!

Fun Fact: The US is the only country to not have minimum age for criminal responsibility (in at least 33 states), meaning a newborn could be put on court for crimes. Source:

[Nobel Hobos 2]

The post is what it is, LUNA, right there where anyone can see it. You can deny you wrote it or that it means something different from what you wrote, but that's pretty transparent given the tenor of virtually everything you have ever posted.

If people on this website are stupid enough to ignore the context, please ban me. I don't want to keep feeding my unhealthy addiction to this site.

You've started a few bad threads recently. This one is particularly dreadful. What made you think "8 year old getting adult treatment" would bring out wholesome and constructive opinions? Half the damn forum are teenagers, they're torn between childhood with its innocence and safety, and adulthood with its freedom and danger. You think they're going to treat your dilemma of criminal responsibility in childhood, with respect or clear thought.

You've been doing fine as a regular poster. Some of your posts really make me think, and as an old person who has thought a lot of things and now generally can't be bothered, I appreciate that.

What went wrong here is you started one too many threads. You sat down to a "no multitasking" full time General session, and to make that work your started a few threads. You should have known better. You should have known that despite "no thread ownership" you would feel an attachment and dedication to those particular threads you started. When this one started to go ways you did not like, ways which frankly you should have foreseen, you should have just dropped it.

We're fine here. One good thing about your OP, is there's no doubt what is on-topic or off-topic. You're free to go!

It would be a shame to see you go from Nationstates General though. Hang in for the Presidential Election at least.

[Serrus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyWwp3woRe0

So basically a child who was uncooperative was asked to go to the principal's office, punched the teacher, and then was arrested for it. Cenk and Ana object to the latter on the ground that he's just a kid.

Even if handling children with the proverbial "kid gloves" is means to protect the vulnerable, in practice there's nothing to stop kids from taking it as an age-based loophole to commit all the crimes they want to. The story says they should've called the kids' parents; but what if the kids' parents sided with the kids? What could be done then?

If we don't teach kids that there are consequences for their actions, what's stopping that violent behaviour pattern from being rewarded well enough to last into their adult years? The story mentions that the US is too over-militarized, which is true, but why should kids be granted a special exemption to this? Doesn't that teach kids that in any altercation between a child and an adult, one side is above the law and the other will have a criminal record that will ruin their whole life if they don't just stand there and take it, rewarding said violent behaviour and therefore encouraging more where that came from?

I'm not even sure if this particular arrest was justified or not, but I'm just not sure what if anything the alternative is, and I certainly don't think the alternative is to send a message to every kid out there that they're immune from being arrested for their actions. For the most part, the people who advocate this "I was a kid then" loophole are the same people extend it to teenagers; who historically were considered adults; which frankly makes me doubt their judgment.

I...Christ, Luna. They're children. They're not "committing crimes." It's not malice. In any sane world, this would have been handled with a stern talking to, not a fecking arrest. The reason we don't punish kids the same way we punish adults is because they are still learning how to be humans. And teenagers are where it gets weird, because they are neither adults nor children. They're not learning how to be human, they're learning how to be them, and they're gonna make some dumb decisions. And they shouldn't necessarily have their lives ruined for them.
At least Infected Mushroom wasn't an actual safety hazard. You should not be put in charge of children. Or humans in general.

[Arcturus Novus]

Don't. Arrest. An 8-year-old.

Suspend the kid, keep them out of the classroom a few days, but there is no fucking justification in treating a literal child and giving them a permanent criminal record for this. Fuck Florida, fuck the school district, fuck the PD.

[Agarntrop]

Does America not understand the concept of the defence of infancy Jesus.

An 8 year old who attacks a teacher should be dealt with by the school, not the police.

[Andsed]

Does America not understand the concept of the defence of infancy Jesus.

An 8 year old who attacks a teacher should be dealt with by the school, not the police.

It gets even worse when you learn the kid was special needs and only punched the teacher because she grabbed him when he did not want to be grabbed. And that the teacher grabbed him because he was not sitting “properly” and refused to go the principal because of it.

[Agarntrop]

Does America not understand the concept of the defence of infancy Jesus.

An 8 year old who attacks a teacher should be dealt with by the school, not the police.

It gets even worse when you learn the kid was special needs and only punched the teacher because she grabbed him when he did not want to be grabbed. And that the teacher grabbed him because he was not sitting “properly.”

Also just putting it out there he likely wouldn't be getting arrested if he was white or female.

[Cekoviu]

At least Infected Mushroom wasn't an actual safety hazard. You should not be put in charge of children. Or humans in general.

or even allowed to be around children tbh

this is insane, and i don't mean that in a hyperbolic sense

[The Two Jerseys]

Ah, the joys of "zero tolerance"!

What an absolute fucking shitshow...

[Serrus]

Does America not understand the concept of the defence of infancy Jesus.

An 8 year old who attacks a teacher should be dealt with by the school, not the police.

It gets even worse when you learn the kid was special needs and only punched the teacher because she grabbed him when he did not want to be grabbed. And that the teacher grabbed him because he was not sitting “properly” and refused to go the principal because of it.

Then it's a million times worse that LUNA is defending this...atrocity.

At least Infected Mushroom wasn't an actual safety hazard. You should not be put in charge of children. Or humans in general.

or even allowed to be around children tbh

this is insane, and i don't mean that in a hyperbolic sense

Glad to see there's something we can agree on.

[Saiwania]

Would people be okay with this arrest if instead, the 8 year old stabbed the teacher with a knife for example? Why should it matter how young the offender is? The fact is he hit a total stranger who doesn't have to put up with it and perhaps got what he deserved. If that incident goes unpunished, it could give other students the idea that they can do the same with no consequence.

If the police get called for any reason, yes they might arrest someone. That is just how it is. Am pretty sure that is how it'd go down if I hit a teacher when I went to school, that or faced expulsion. The kid undoubtedly had a parent who could bail them out and put this incident behind them after it was all resolved and talked out. If he can behave going forward it'll be fine.

People really exaggerate the negative effect on employment an arrest has. Fact is, most employers don't care if its not recent. You can have no criminal record and still find it nearly impossible to land a job if you're lacking in skills or charisma, ambition and etc. It is very much arbitrary who is the best fit for a job, but basically you only need to convince someone that you're a good risk in terms of it being likely that you'll help the company or boss make more money (of which you'll get a cut of).

[Nobel Hobos 2]

We should look into the background of this temp teacher. In this world, the most obvious motive she might have is to sue the education department. I mean really, calling the cops to punish an 8 year old? That's so childish, it's not implausible, but it definitely ranks below laying down a civil suit and extorting the school district for money, in plausibility.

Here, a teacher (temp or not) would have no authority to call the police. And of course police are not stationed in schools, they can only enter with the Principal's permission.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Would people be okay with this arrest if instead, the 8 year old stabbed the teacher with a knife for example? Why should it matter how young the offender is?

See what you did there?

[Dollystana]

That's quite excessive; we're talking about an 8-year-old here.

105% agree.

[The Rich Port]

Would people be okay with this arrest if instead, the 8 year old stabbed the teacher with a knife for example? Why should it matter how young the offender is?

See what you did there?

Guns don't kill people, 8 year olds do.

Also, goalposts have been known to kill, sweat.avi

[Vistulange]

Would people be okay with this arrest if instead, the 8 year old stabbed the teacher with a knife for example? Why should it matter how young the offender is?

You see, there's this really novel concept known as "criminal liability".

[Dagnia]

I'm not at all surprised. When I was in grade 3 and 8 years old, I had an awful teacher who I often thought about punching. One day I actually told her this and she said I could be arrested for it. This was in the early 1990s before every school had a zero-tolerance policy for everything and you could do a gun motion with your hands (or cut your poptart into one) without getting expelled and facing an army of social workers. Given how much worse teachers seem today, I wouldn't doubt the teacher probably did something to deserve it, but they were clearly within their rights to arrest him too.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Why is this news? We have cops assaulting protesters beacuse Trump wanted a photo op, assaulting reporters, living in the worst economic state sense the great depression, 741K people dead from a deadly plague, oceans turning acidic beacuse of global warming and this is news?

[-Astoria-]

Why is this news? We have cops assaulting protesters beacuse Trump wanted a photo op, assaulting reporters, living in the worst economic state sense the great depression, 741K people dead from a deadly plague, oceans turning acidic beacuse of global warming and this is news?

The news needs some variation after a good while of the same (literal) disease, destruction & death, apparently.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Why is this news? We have cops assaulting protesters beacuse Trump wanted a photo op, assaulting reporters, living in the worst economic state sense the great depression, 741K people dead from a deadly plague, oceans turning acidic beacuse of global warming and this is news?

The news needs some variation after a good while of the same (literal) disease, destruction & death, apparently.

Ok, but there are so many other things to talk about then.

Microsoft lobbed for defunding the IRS when they where being audited. Fusion reactor being built. Activision has underpaid staff while boasting record revenue. Ubisoft spent years abusing employees and covering up abusers. Anything Sir Swag talks about.