The tragedy of US President Lyndon Baines Johnson

[Agarntrop]

I think his terrible foreign policy kind of overshadowed his domestic policy achievements, which is a bit dissapointing to say the least.

Although I'm not sure I can forgive sending thousands of young Americans to their deaths because of an unwinnable war in a tiny country on the other side of the world.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Unfairly, as our intervention in Vietnam was entirely necessary considering the global threat often posed by communist factions.

No it was not necessary. Communism was not gonna take over here because it takes over a country in the global south, and btw, we kinda helped the communists win hearts and minds there with this shit: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-23427726

Turns out the United States was a force for evil in Vietnam. Not the heroic bullshit you often see some claim it was, but is it ever?

The elder Bush's intervention in Kuwait/Iraq seemed right to me. Not heroic: heroism would be risking one's life (or one's army) for a good cause, which slaughtering conscripts who might as well be unarmed for how their weapons stacked up against the US military ... isn't. But degrading Saddam's elite units was a good move, Bush didn't take the opportunity to completely invade, and the border went back where it used to be. About as close as we'll get to a "just war" imo.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

No it was not necessary. Communism was not gonna take over here because it takes over a country in the global south, and btw, we kinda helped the communists win hearts and minds there with this shit: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-23427726

Turns out the United States was a force for evil in Vietnam. Not the heroic bullshit you often see some claim it was, but is it ever?

The elder Bush's intervention in Kuwait/Iraq seemed right to me. Not heroic: heroism would be risking one's life (or one's army) for a good cause, which slaughtering conscripts who might as well be unarmed for how their weapons stacked up against the US military ... isn't. But degrading Saddam's elite units was a good move, Bush didn't take the opportunity to completely invade, and the border went back where it used to be. About as close as we'll get to a "just war" imo.

Yeah there's that. But for most wars between any countries (not just America), heroism is a foreign word, and most wars are not glorious fights for freedom.

[Grinning Dragon]

'Ugh, johnson was a piece of shit. The only reason Kennedy picked johnson was to carry Texas.
Such a shame the assassin on November 22, 1963, at 12:30 p.m picked the wrong guy that day.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

'Ugh, johnson was a piece of shit. The only reason Kennedy picked johnson was to carry Texas.
Such a shame the assassin on November 22, 1963, at 12:30 p.m ...

I'm pretty sure you can't call for someone's death. Even if they're long dead.

[Christian Confederation]

No it was not necessary. Communism was not gonna take over here because it takes over a country in the global south, and btw, we kinda helped the communists win hearts and minds there with this shit: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-23427726

Turns out the United States was a force for evil in Vietnam. Not the heroic bullshit you often see some claim it was, but is it ever?

The elder Bush's intervention in Kuwait/Iraq seemed right to me. Not heroic: heroism would be risking one's life (or one's army) for a good cause, which slaughtering conscripts who might as well be unarmed for how their weapons stacked up against the US military ... isn't. But degrading Saddam's elite units was a good move, Bush didn't take the opportunity to completely invade, and the border went back where it used to be. About as close as we'll get to a "just war" imo.

Dessert Storm didn't go all the way to Baghdad because the UN only Sanctioned the Liberation of Kuwait. Plus the Alliance with the other Arab states was shakey as it was, Invading and Overthrowing Saddam would have made the alliance fail apart and the middle east would have been a bigger quagmire than it already is.

[Greed and Death]

Is he one of America's most unknown presidents?

On November 22, 1963, Lyndon Baines Johnson (commonly called LBJ) was inaugurated after JFK's assassination. His presidency was the time of massive change in American society. Civil rights, health care, poverty, and perhaps the most infamous of all, Vietnam. It is my belief that one of the America's best, and arguably one of the worst presidents, is forgotten to the public. LBJ ran the nation after the last president to be assassinated, and the first to resign. In the chaos of post 1963, it's easy to forget this man, but I believe his legacy is too important for that.

Lyndon Johnson strongly believed in the Great Society, a grand plan for the massive transformation and improvement in the lives of the average American. His accomplishments in this field is astounding to me. But then Vietnam happened. He plunged the nation into a brutal war of attrition in a far away land most people never even knew existed. And this is my point right here: The Vietnam War overshadowed LBJ's presidency. Whatever he did on the legislative front was always overshadowed by Vietnam, and the Civil Rights Movement as a whole.

Here's a list of the significant legislation passed during his tenure:

1963: Clean Air Act of 1963
1963: Higher Education Facilities Act of 1963
1963: Vocational Education Act of 1963
1964: Civil Rights Act of 1964
1964: Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964
1964: Wilderness Act
1964: Nurse Training Act of 1964[292]
1964: Food Stamp Act of 1964
1964: Economic Opportunity Act
1964: Housing Act of 1964
1965: Higher Education Act of 1965
1965: Older Americans Act
1965: Coinage Act of 1965
1965: Social Security Act of 1965
1965: Voting Rights Act of 1965
1965: Immigration and Nationality Services Act of 1965
1966: Animal Welfare Act of 1966
1966: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
1967: Age Discrimination in Employment Act
1967: Public Broadcasting Act of 1967
1968: Architectural Barriers Act of 1968
1968: Bilingual Education Act
1968: Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act)
1968: Gun Control Act of 1968

Among the most important are all the Civil Rights laws plus the Food Stamp Act, 1965 Immigration Reform Act (which overturned decades of racist immigration policies) and the Freedom of Information Act.

On the other front, he quickly expanded operations in Vietnam, leading to 543,000 American troops fighting in Vietnam in 1968. Then you have the cultural phenomenons of the 1960s: The counter-culture movement/hippies, increase in drug usage, and (what at the time) was called the "ghetto riots". All of these presented so many challenges to a conservative society. Hippies and drug users aimed for a more liberal society, while the disastrous series of riots in the 60s destroyed many black and impoverished areas. LBJ appointed a commission in a period known as the Long, Hot summer of 1967, to address the core issues of the riots. 1967's summer months saw 157 riots alone. You had the Watts Riots in 65Police and National Guardsmen were beating people in the streets. Chicago had a horrible case of this in August 1968, when the police started beating peaceful Vietnam War protesters.

With the information I presented here, I must ask: Is LBJ an underrated/overrated president? Am I wrong in saying he's forgotten?

Personally, I think LBJ definitely was in the shadow of Kennedy and Nixon. And perhaps the worst tragedy of all is that Nixon started the War on Drugs, which, from my limited sources, LBJ was opposed to. We can see just how bad this impacted communities across the country

One of the tragedies of LBJ is that JFK gets the get credit for much of the civil rights agenda. I mourn Kennedy's death but he could have never pushed the civil rights movement through.

LBJ expanded social systems (great society), ran the moon program, and went to war in Vietnam. How did he pay for all of that ? He created the unified budget and robbed from social security which created the problem we have today with the trust fund.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

The elder Bush's intervention in Kuwait/Iraq seemed right to me. Not heroic: heroism would be risking one's life (or one's army) for a good cause, which slaughtering conscripts who might as well be unarmed for how their weapons stacked up against the US military ... isn't. But degrading Saddam's elite units was a good move, Bush didn't take the opportunity to completely invade, and the border went back where it used to be. About as close as we'll get to a "just war" imo.

Dessert Storm didn't go all the way to Baghdad because the UN only Sanctioned the Liberation of Kuwait. Plus the Alliance with the other Arab states was shakey as it was, Invading and Overthrowing Saddam would have made the alliance fail apart and the middle east would have been a bigger quagmire than it already is.

Sure. Not doing that was a good thing. The next Iraq war was done without a UN mandate, showing that if he'd chosen to the elder Bush could have pushed on regardless. If the UN was a factor in Bush's decision, then good, that speaks well of him too.

[Ethel mermania]

He's not forgotten, he just sucked.

He was a fine President, any man would stumble in the face of the enormous responsibilities that he had. It's not an easy thing to actively oppose racism domestically and totalitarianism abroad.

Pfft. Johnson was a racist. To johnson the Civil rights act was "that nigger bill" designed to keep those people voting democratic for the next 100 years.

What people love to forget is Nixon testified in favor of the Civil rights act before congress.

[Myrensis]

He was a fine President, any man would stumble in the face of the enormous responsibilities that he had. It's not an easy thing to actively oppose racism domestically and totalitarianism abroad.

Pfft. Johnson was a racist. To johnson the Civil rights act was "that nigger bill" designed to keep those people voting democratic for the next 100 years.

What people love to forget is Nixon testified in favor of the Civil rights act before congress.

Always funny when that supposed quote of LBJ's is brought up. Like, what exactly is the 'gotcha' supposed to be?

"Oh, that devious Johnson, he tricked blacks into voting Democrat just by...signing into law the most sweeping civil and voting rights legislation in the history of the nation."

Can't believe those black voters were gullible enough to fall for it!

[Ethel mermania]

Pfft. Johnson was a racist. To johnson the Civil rights act was "that nigger bill" designed to keep those people voting democratic for the next 100 years.

What people love to forget is Nixon testified in favor of the Civil rights act before congress.

Always funny when that supposed quote of LBJ's is brought up. Like, what exactly is the 'gotcha' supposed to be?

"Oh, that devious Johnson, he tricked blacks into voting Democrat just by...signing into law the most sweeping civil and voting rights legislation in the history of the nation."

Can't believe those black voters were gullible enough to fall for it!

Supposed my ass.

The gotcha was johnson wasnt a good guy, he was a racist and his support of the bill was a cold political calculation.

It is also pleasing to note the only real opposition to the bill was from democrats. That paragon of freedom democrat robert Byrd tried to filibuster the bull to death. It was the Republicans that clotured byrd, and got the civil rights act passed.

[Greed and Death]

Pfft. Johnson was a racist. To johnson the Civil rights act was "that nigger bill" designed to keep those people voting democratic for the next 100 years.

What people love to forget is Nixon testified in favor of the Civil rights act before congress.

Always funny when that supposed quote of LBJ's is brought up. Like, what exactly is the 'gotcha' supposed to be?

"Oh, that devious Johnson, he tricked blacks into voting Democrat just by...signing into law the most sweeping civil and voting rights legislation in the history of the nation."

Can't believe those black voters were gullible enough to fall for it!

I believe the gotcha was being a pragmatic bigot.

[Picairn]

Supposed my ass.

The gotcha was johnson wasnt a good guy, he was a racist and his support of the bill was a cold political calculation.

It is also pleasing to note the only real opposition to the bill was from democrats. That paragon of freedom democrat robert Byrd tried to filibuster the bull to death. It was the Republicans that clotured byrd, and got the civil rights act passed.

If cold political calculation can get things done quickly, I would take him any day. Have you ever researched Pragmatism? Yes, Johnson was a racist but on the other hand, he passed the most sweeping civil rights act in US history. Quite a feat.

Also it's pleasing to note that the political landscape has changed over the past decades. Strom Thurmond, another racist, defected to the Republican party and now we have Trump, another raging racist. Not sure what you are trying to score here.

[Myrensis]

Always funny when that supposed quote of LBJ's is brought up. Like, what exactly is the 'gotcha' supposed to be?

"Oh, that devious Johnson, he tricked blacks into voting Democrat just by...signing into law the most sweeping civil and voting rights legislation in the history of the nation."

Can't believe those black voters were gullible enough to fall for it!

Supposed my ass.

The gotcha was johnson wasnt a good guy, he was a racist and his support of the bill was a cold political calculation.

It is also pleasing to note the only real opposition to the bill was from democrats. That paragon of freedom democrat robert Byrd tried to filibuster the bull to death. It was the Republicans that clotured byrd, and got the civil rights act passed.

It's also pleasing to note that Republicans entire feeble claim to the CRA rests on being a minority in both chambers and effectively non-existent in the South. More Northern Democrats voted in favor than Republicans, and every single Southern Republican voted against...all 11 of them.

[Ethel mermania]

Supposed my ass.

The gotcha was johnson wasnt a good guy, he was a racist and his support of the bill was a cold political calculation.

It is also pleasing to note the only real opposition to the bill was from democrats. That paragon of freedom democrat robert Byrd tried to filibuster the bull to death. It was the Republicans that clotured byrd, and got the civil rights act passed.

If cold political calculation can get things done quickly, I would take him any day. Have you ever researched Pragmatism? Yes, Johnson was a racist but on the other hand, he passed the most sweeping civil rights act in US history. Quite a feat.

Also it's pleasing to note that the political landscape has changed over the past decades. Strom Thurmond, another racist, defected to the Republican party and now we have Trump, another raging racist. Not sure what you are trying to score here.

The thread is about johnson, not trump.

[Dresderstan]

I think he was in some way responsible for Kennedy's assassination, plus he got us entangled in Vietnam, which was a shit decision that plagued his presidency and still does to this day.

[Myrensis]

If cold political calculation can get things done quickly, I would take him any day. Have you ever researched Pragmatism? Yes, Johnson was a racist but on the other hand, he passed the most sweeping civil rights act in US history. Quite a feat.

Also it's pleasing to note that the political landscape has changed over the past decades. Strom Thurmond, another racist, defected to the Republican party and now we have Trump, another raging racist. Not sure what you are trying to score here.

The thread is about johnson, not trump.

It''s actually relevant, since we're talking about Johnson quotes and political calculation, he also articulated what would become the core of Republican strategy up until the present day that lead to the rise of Trump:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[Picairn]

The thread is about johnson, not trump.

You brought up Byrd, I brought up Thurmond and Trump

[Ethel mermania]

The thread is about johnson, not trump.

You brought up Byrd, I brought up Thurmond and Trump

Byrd is relevant to the civil rights act of 1964, Trump isn't.
.

[Picairn]

You brought up Byrd, I brought up Thurmond and Trump

Byrd is relevant to the civil rights act of 1964, Trump isn't.
.

Ok, then Thurmond.

[Ethel mermania]

Byrd is relevant to the civil rights act of 1964, Trump isn't.
.

Ok, then Thurmond.

Thats fair.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I think he was in some way responsible for Kennedy's assassination, plus he got us entangled in Vietnam, which was a shit decision that plagued his presidency and still does to this day.

Johnson got the US much more heavily into Vietnam, but Kennedy started it.

"in some way responsible for Kennedy's assassination" ... why make up your own conspiracy theory, when somewhere on the net someone has put thousands of hours into crafting one for you? I mean, the guy who stood to get Kennedy's job would be suspect number one, right?

[Greed and Death]

Byrd is relevant to the civil rights act of 1964, Trump isn't.
.

Ok, then Thurmond.

Thurmond opposed the civil rights act of '64 as a Democrat.

When switching to the Republican party Thurmond was required to drop Overt racism by the GOP. Thurmond then opposed the voting rights act on the grounds of states rights rather than overt racism.

[Picairn]

Thurmond opposed the civil rights act of '64 as a Democrat.

When switching to the Republican party Thurmond was required to drop Overt racism by the GOP. Thurmond then opposed the voting rights act on the grounds of states rights rather than overt racism.

States' rights to disenfranchise black people from exercising their constitutional rights to vote?

[Ethel mermania]

I think he was in some way responsible for Kennedy's assassination, plus he got us entangled in Vietnam, which was a shit decision that plagued his presidency and still does to this day.

Johnson got the US much more heavily into Vietnam, but Kennedy started it.

"in some way responsible for Kennedy's assassination" ... why make up your own conspiracy theory, when somewhere on the net someone has put thousands of hours into crafting one for you? I mean, the guy who stood to get Kennedy's job would be suspect number one, right?

Truman started American post war involvement in vietnam, and if we really want to go back we can blame Wilson in 1919.