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Possible Revolution in Belarus after Rigged election

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Broader Confederate States
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Ex-Nation

Postby Broader Confederate States » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:00 am

Purpelia wrote:
Broader Confederate States wrote:I had it on mine. The entire reason that my two main nations exist (this one and Western Chippewa) is the fact that I'm 100% convinced that we'll see one here in the United States at some point in the 21st century, and have been for multiple years. Now, whether or not it'll turn out like I've portrayed isn't something I can predict, but we're pretty much halfway there already and it isn't even November 3rd yet. Who knows what kind of hellstorm we'll see after about a third of the country doesn't get its way whoever wins.

Your words speak of hope, of justice and truth, of times of great pleasure and joy.
And yet in my mind I can not but cry from the cynical outcry of nope.

I wish it would be, this future you see, where america crumbles and falls.
But I don't believe this can at all be.
No confidence, have I. No hope!

That death might ensnare them, fire curtail them and destruction come to their homes.
Too me is this wish, like water to fish. Yet all logic keeps saying nope.

Even this plague, dragging all to the grave, it too will eventually pass.
Yet they shall remain, like a demon unslain, an evil none can surpass.

And while they might fall eventually, I fear I shall not see that day.
When the united states, its reckoning pays and the world becomes free at last.

Where we see eye to eye is a distate for the existence of the present U.S., but that's about where our commonalities end.
Also, quit being edgy. Civil war isn't something to be wished, even on your enemies. The entire reason the america bad argument has any legs to stand on is that we're the one starting wars, because that causes all sorts of problems. Little bit of a tip: war isn't a good thing. It's pretty bad, actually, any life lost to a war is one too many. Snidely Whiplashes don't actually exist, people have more nuance than "they're american so they're evil". Especially any random person you just pick off the street.
But whatever, let's say that's all worth it to you.
What happens when powerful countries fall? Power vacuums, right? Who's gonna fill the role the U.S. had? The E.U.? Probably not, they're crumbling. Russia? They're not really this big powerful force. Basically it's either reform segmented but allied, or watch as China takes the initiative.
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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:41 am

Damn, this thread's hilarious! Couple of things. First, Belarus has a decent amount of armed forces that are loyal to the president, and that won't need to shoot at crowds with actual bullets. Belarus has over 100,000 Partisan Forces, which can give the Russians or Americans a run for their money, so you can sort of imagine what they'll do to unarmed protesters, although I'm sure that a molotov wielding foreigner will totally tip the tide.

Second, the "monster" Lukashenko kept the Belarussian economy in relatively good shape:

Image

Here's Ukraine for comparison:

Image

One of the things that Lumen doesn't realize, is that by Eastern European standards, Lukashenko ain't that bad. Also it's a tad hard to take an online poll giving Lukashenko 3% approval rating seriously.
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Sharania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sharania » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:54 am

The Guardian: Belarus election: Lukashenko's claim of landslide victory sparks widespread protests
Riot police deployed in Minsk and about 20 other cities in some of the biggest clashes in the country’s history

Clashes broke out in cities across Belarus on Sunday evening as riot police used rubber bullets, flash grenades, teargas and water cannon to quash protests against the results of the contested presidential election.

Alexander Lukashenko, who has ruled for 26 years, claimed he had won a landslide victory in an election marred by accusations of vote-rigging. The election commission announced on Monday that Lukashenko took 80.23% of the votes while his main opposition challenger Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, who has held some of the country’s largest political rallies since the days of the Soviet Union, had only 9.9%.

Large protests broke out soon after the polls closed in Minsk, where a crowd of thousands gathered in the centre of the capital. A reporter for the Guardian saw police use water cannon against protesters and was fired on by rubber bullets. Opponents of Lukashenko chanted, “Leave!” Police made dozens of arrests. In one video, an army truck appeared to run into a protester.

On Monday morning Reuters reported that at least one person was killed after being knocked over by a police prisoner van and dozens were injured.


Thousands of voters were left outside polling stations in Belarus and embassies after the government refused to extend voting hours beyond the 8pm cutoff.


The clashes with police were some of the largest in the country’s history. Photographs from the protests showed field medics treating demonstrators with bloodied faces. An AP photographer was taken to hospital after being beaten unconscious by riot police inside a police van.


Local journalists reported problems with Telegram, Twitter, Viber, WhatsApp, and websites associated with opposition parties and platforms for monitoring the vote. Netblocks, a civil society group, said internet connectivity had been “significantly disrupted in Belarus amid the presidential elections”.


Now compare and contrast with TNYT: Belarus Says Longtime Leader Is Re-elected in Vote Critics Call Rigged

MINSK, Belarus — He bungled the coronavirus pandemic, alienated his longstanding foreign ally and last week faced the biggest anti-government protests in decades, but on Sunday, President Aleksandr G. Lukashenko of Belarus was on course to win his sixth term in office, in an election his critics dismissed as rigged.

According to a government-sponsored exit poll released after voting ended, Mr. Lukashenko won just under 80 percent of the vote against four rivals, avoiding a runoff vote.

A heavy cloak of security descended over the capital, Minsk, where internet service was cut off, phones worked only sporadically and soldiers and riot police cordoned off the central square and the main public buildings. Long before the results were announced, the opposition, predicting that the count would be illegitimate, had called for protests on Sunday night.

Tension escalated sharply Sunday evening after a police truck rammed into a crowd of protesters blocking a major avenue in the center of the capital, injuring several people. The protesters had barricaded the avenue with metal dumpsters but were eventually dispersed by squads of riot police officers.


See? No mention of the dead guy by the NYT - amazing level of "integrity"! Now, imagine such bothsideism this November.

Mr. Lukashenko, unfazed by criticism of widespread pre-election repression, radiated confidence as he cast his vote at a university in Minsk on Sunday morning.

“They aren’t even worth repressing,” he said of his opponents. “To be honest, we have been soft so far. I can tell you honestly, we have always restrained the law enforcement.”


Move over, Putin - that's Trump's new best bud!

His already souring relations with Moscow took a bizarre new turn for the worse last week when his security services arrested 33 Russians, accusing them of being part of a team of mercenaries sent to Belarus to disrupt the election. A few days later, the authorities also took a swipe at the United States, saying that several suspicious Americans had been arrested, too.


What the NYT is not saying, of course, is that one of the US nationals arrested by Lukashenka is Vitali Shkliarov, who was an election campaign staffer or manager for Tammy Baldwin, Barack Obama, Ro Khanna and Bernie Sanders (well, the last one was a poor call on his part). 3 days ago Lukashenka's kongaroo courts charged him with "organizing riots".

Now, I ask you - will Mr. Trump do ANYTHING AT ALL to return safely home an American national from a country with no independent courts that still often uses death penalty as a way to keep the population in line?

P.S. You know, who was the first to congratulate Lukashenka with his "victory"? No, not Putin - Chairman Xi did it first! The very same day the CCP issued its own sanctions of the USG officials.

Still think what's happening in Minks does not affect you?
Last edited by Sharania on Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ansarre
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Postby Ansarre » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:22 am

Good. Time for another Putin puppet to bite the dust and we can integrate Belarus into the European Union. I've always been fascinated with these post-USSR communist regimes though, and wanted to visit them before their inevitable collapse. Turkmenistan, Cuba, Transnistria and the DPRK are really the only ones left other than Belarus.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:26 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why should he remain in power after blatantly rigging an election he lost overwhelmingly?


Who gives a shit if he lost the election. Belarus is one of the best places to live in the former USSR.

Well outside of the Baltics
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:30 am

San Lumen wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:These things are not so simple as you make them out to be.

Yes he is bad. Yes he should be removed from power.

Assad was also bad. Assad should have been removed from power.

But does anyone think the attempt to remove Assad from power has made Syria in any way a better place?

Now, of course, we can't know if the attempt to remove Lukashenko will go the same way. And I sincerely hope that it does not. I wish freedom and responsible government for all peoples. But it's not totally unreasonable to be nervous about this. This has the potential to end very, very badly.

Syria and Belarus are completely different countries

Only in the fact that one is Christian majority and basically speaks Russian while the other is Muslim majority and speaks Arabic.

That’s about the only differences, outside of the fact that Belarus is a totalitarian state with a literal police state
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:36 am

Ansarre wrote:Good. Time for another Putin puppet to bite the dust and we can integrate Belarus into the European Union. I've always been fascinated with these post-USSR communist regimes though, and wanted to visit them before their inevitable collapse. Turkmenistan, Cuba, Transnistria and the DPRK are really the only ones left other than Belarus.

Belarus isn’t communist. And neither is Turkmenistan.

Belarus also isn’t going anywhere because Russia won’t let it.
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Ansarre
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Postby Ansarre » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:18 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Ansarre wrote:Good. Time for another Putin puppet to bite the dust and we can integrate Belarus into the European Union. I've always been fascinated with these post-USSR communist regimes though, and wanted to visit them before their inevitable collapse. Turkmenistan, Cuba, Transnistria and the DPRK are really the only ones left other than Belarus.

Belarus isn’t communist. And neither is Turkmenistan.

Belarus also isn’t going anywhere because Russia won’t let it.

Lukashenko and Russia aren't exactly on good terms. And sure they're not bona fide orthodox Marxists, but they're the successors to communist regimes. Berdimuhamedow definitely isn't a communist but Niyazov was a former member of the Communist Party for almost 30 years.
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Hong Kong is British and the Republic of China is the only legitimate authority in China! 時代革命!
I support ISRAEL, open borders, multiracialism, the war on drugs, free trade, police militarization, landlords, and regime change wars.
No to America, no to Russia, no to China, YES TO EUROPE
Senator Joseph McCarthy was an American hero and did nothing wrong

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:25 am

Ansarre wrote:Good. Time for another Putin puppet to bite the dust and we can integrate Belarus into the European Union. I've always been fascinated with these post-USSR communist regimes though, and wanted to visit them before their inevitable collapse. Turkmenistan, Cuba, Transnistria and the DPRK are really the only ones left other than Belarus.
This; but those countries (with the exception of NK) you mentioned are less communist, & more simply authoritarian states in all but name.
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Ansarre
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Postby Ansarre » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:27 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Ansarre wrote:Good. Time for another Putin puppet to bite the dust and we can integrate Belarus into the European Union. I've always been fascinated with these post-USSR communist regimes though, and wanted to visit them before their inevitable collapse. Turkmenistan, Cuba, Transnistria and the DPRK are really the only ones left other than Belarus.
This; but those countries (with the exception of NK) you mentioned are less communist, & more simply authoritarian states in all but name.

Yeah, it was bad phrasing on my part.
Center-right Neoconservative and European Federalist
Hong Kong is British and the Republic of China is the only legitimate authority in China! 時代革命!
I support ISRAEL, open borders, multiracialism, the war on drugs, free trade, police militarization, landlords, and regime change wars.
No to America, no to Russia, no to China, YES TO EUROPE
Senator Joseph McCarthy was an American hero and did nothing wrong

OOC Overview of myself | European Voting Guide | Reading List
FREEDOM FOR ISRAEL
FREEDOM FOR BELARUS
FREEDOM FOR EAST TURKESTAN
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:40 am

Ansarre wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Belarus isn’t communist. And neither is Turkmenistan.

Belarus also isn’t going anywhere because Russia won’t let it.

Lukashenko and Russia aren't exactly on good terms. And sure they're not bona fide orthodox Marxists, but they're the successors to communist regimes. Berdimuhamedow definitely isn't a communist but Niyazov was a former member of the Communist Party for almost 30 years.

Being a member of the communist party means nothing. Putin was a member of the communist party yet nobody thinks he’s a communist, same with Boris Yeltsin.

And being a successor to a communist regime means nothing. The governments of the Baltics are the successors to the communist regimes yet not one of them are communist.

Russia isn’t going to let its buffer state go. They will intervene to protect it, even if it means they replace Lukashesko
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Postby Ansarre » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:52 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Ansarre wrote:Lukashenko and Russia aren't exactly on good terms. And sure they're not bona fide orthodox Marxists, but they're the successors to communist regimes. Berdimuhamedow definitely isn't a communist but Niyazov was a former member of the Communist Party for almost 30 years.

Being a member of the communist party means nothing. Putin was a member of the communist party yet nobody thinks he’s a communist, same with Boris Yeltsin.

And being a successor to a communist regime means nothing. The governments of the Baltics are the successors to the communist regimes yet not one of them are communist.

Russia isn’t going to let its buffer state go. They will intervene to protect it, even if it means they replace Lukashesko

The Baltic states aren't dictatorial police states ruled by the former Communist Party ruling class.
Center-right Neoconservative and European Federalist
Hong Kong is British and the Republic of China is the only legitimate authority in China! 時代革命!
I support ISRAEL, open borders, multiracialism, the war on drugs, free trade, police militarization, landlords, and regime change wars.
No to America, no to Russia, no to China, YES TO EUROPE
Senator Joseph McCarthy was an American hero and did nothing wrong

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Punished UMN
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:53 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Ansarre wrote:Lukashenko and Russia aren't exactly on good terms. And sure they're not bona fide orthodox Marxists, but they're the successors to communist regimes. Berdimuhamedow definitely isn't a communist but Niyazov was a former member of the Communist Party for almost 30 years.

Being a member of the communist party means nothing. Putin was a member of the communist party yet nobody thinks he’s a communist, same with Boris Yeltsin.

^ Being a member of the KPSS was like being a member of the Dems or GOP, you basically had to be a member to hold any kind of position. It was an ideological party yes, but many of its members were not standard communists because it was also a party of governance.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:56 am

Ansarre wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Being a member of the communist party means nothing. Putin was a member of the communist party yet nobody thinks he’s a communist, same with Boris Yeltsin.

And being a successor to a communist regime means nothing. The governments of the Baltics are the successors to the communist regimes yet not one of them are communist.

Russia isn’t going to let its buffer state go. They will intervene to protect it, even if it means they replace Lukashesko

The Baltic states aren't dictatorial police states ruled by the former Communist Party ruling class.

1) many of the Baltic States' early politicians were in fact powerful KPSS members and 2) Lukashenko (or for that matter almost any living statesmen) were not high-ranking KPSS members.
Last edited by Punished UMN on Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ascended beyond politics, now metapolitics is my best friend. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
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The political compass is like hell: if you find yourself on it, keep going.
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-Ra-
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Postby -Ra- » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:02 am

And yet again we see how far-left regimes tumble.

Down with Lukashenko.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:05 am

-Ra- wrote:And yet again we see how far-left regimes tumble.
Have you a point to make, perhaps?
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:07 am

-Ra- wrote:And yet again we see how far-left regimes tumble.

Down with Lukashenko.

I would say it's harder to classify Lukashenko's regime. By some standards he could be left wing, but what left wing means in the West is so different from what it means in Eastern Europe that that's not really a meaningful qualifier. I wouldn't say those labels are really useful for regimes that are relics of a bygone period (e.g. Belarus, DPRK, Transnistria, etc.) because these states are fairly static and are part of otherwise extinct political expressions which are not really living or continuing to develop.
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Ascended beyond politics, now metapolitics is my best friend. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
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The political compass is like hell: if you find yourself on it, keep going.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:52 am

https://twitter.com/mplstvguy/status/12 ... 36224?s=20

Mass Protests continue today with a national strike planned for tomorrow

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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:57 am

Oh boy. I can picture this getting quite bad.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:04 am

San Lumen wrote:https://twitter.com/mplstvguy/status/1292802958330036224?s=20

Mass Protests continue today with a national strike planned for tomorrow

Things a about to get bloody
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:06 am

Thermodolia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://twitter.com/mplstvguy/status/1292802958330036224?s=20

Mass Protests continue today with a national strike planned for tomorrow

Things a about to get bloody

I think the people have finally had enough of this monster and want him gone

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Dresderstan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:08 am

San Lumen wrote:https://twitter.com/mplstvguy/status/1292802958330036224?s=20

Mass Protests continue today with a national strike planned for tomorrow

Ironic how you'll cheer a mass strike in Belarus but when Therm suggests we do it you get all bonkers about "BuT wHaT aBoUt ThE eCoNoMy" and bitch about how your luxuries like going to a bar, a gym or a concert are important.

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Dresderstan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:08 am

San Lumen wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Things a about to get bloody

I think the people have finally had enough of this monster and want him gone

And they'll die trying and will achieve nothing when Daddy Putin sends his troops to crush it.

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-Ra-
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Ex-Nation

Postby -Ra- » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:11 am

Punished UMN wrote:
-Ra- wrote:And yet again we see how far-left regimes tumble.

Down with Lukashenko.

I would say it's harder to classify Lukashenko's regime. By some standards he could be left wing, but what left wing means in the West is so different from what it means in Eastern Europe that that's not really a meaningful qualifier. I wouldn't say those labels are really useful for regimes that are relics of a bygone period (e.g. Belarus, DPRK, Transnistria, etc.) because these states are fairly static and are part of otherwise extinct political expressions which are not really living or continuing to develop.

Lukashenko was a communist bureaucrat.

Many of Lukashenko's policies in Belarus are the same policies of the erstwhile Soviet Union.

Both belong in the dumpster bin of history.

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San Lumen
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Posts: 87269
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:11 am

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I think the people have finally had enough of this monster and want him gone

And they'll die trying and will achieve nothing when Daddy Putin sends his troops to crush it.

Yeah they should just give up and accept a rigged election and five more years of repression. Lukashenko isn’t on very good terms with Putin at the moment. Other European countries should stop sending out statements and help oust him

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