NationStates

Region of Dwipantara wrote:

Dangine wrote:I support this move. Sadly it will cause more conflict between Muslims and Hindus though.

So does this means the potential conflicts are acceptable or...

Qihein wrote:Good for India, symbols of oppression should be torn down. I wish it would easier getting rid of oppressive symbols in the U.S like Confederate and Christopher Columbus statues

Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:This on the other hand. While the Confederate statues really are neo-Confederate propaganda, Christopher Columbus wasn't the guy murdering natives just fyi. It was actually disease and the conquistadors doing that (thanks, Hernan Cortes and Francisco Pizarro).

The Alma Mater wrote:

Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:This on the other hand. While the Confederate statues really are neo-Confederate propaganda, Christopher Columbus wasn't the guy murdering natives just fyi. It was actually disease and the conquistadors doing that (thanks, Hernan Cortes and Francisco Pizarro).

When questioned about him though, natives tend to be... "not positive".

The Hindustani State wrote:The Babri Masjid was a continuing symbol of the subjugation and oppression of Hindus under the Indian Sultanates and Islamic ruling class.

Salus Maior wrote:

The Hindustani State wrote:The Babri Masjid was a continuing symbol of the subjugation and oppression of Hindus under the Indian Sultanates and Islamic ruling class.

The Sultans were kicked out centuries ago, and it'd be laughable to say that Muslims have had a privileged position over Hindus in India since independence.

Whatever oppression was associated with the Mosque is just pages in Indian history by now, and history, regardless of whether it's pleasant or not is important and part of human identity.

Frankly, it could have been turned into a Museum like Hagia Sophia (or at least what Hagia Sophia was).

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:I knew this was gonna happen. Modi and his fans are so intent on inflaming religious tensions in India.

Qihein wrote:Good for India, symbols of oppression should be torn down. I wish it would easier getting rid of oppressive symbols in the U.S like Confederate and Christopher Columbus statues

Aclion wrote:

Qihein wrote:Good for India, symbols of oppression should be torn down. I wish it would easier getting rid of oppressive symbols in the U.S like Confederate and Christopher Columbus statues

This would be relevant if the confederate monuments had been built over black churches or something.

Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:We should've listened to Gandhi guys. It would make a great nuclear silo to obliterate his enemies.

In all seriousness though, I see nothing wrong with this.

Qihein wrote:Good for India, symbols of oppression should be torn down. I wish it would easier getting rid of oppressive symbols in the U.S like Confederate and Christopher Columbus statues

This on the other hand. While the Confederate statues really are neo-Confederate propaganda, Christopher Columbus wasn't the guy murdering natives just fyi. It was actually disease and the conquistadors doing that (thanks, Hernan Cortes and Francisco Pizarro).

Wikipedia wrote:Bobadilla reported to Spain that Columbus regularly used torture and mutilation to govern Hispaniola. The 48-page report, found in 2006 in the national archive in the Spanish city of Simancas, contains testimonies from 23 people, including both enemies and supporters of Columbus, about the treatment of colonial subjects by Columbus and his brothers during his seven-year rule.[98]

According to the report, Columbus once punished a man found guilty of stealing corn by having his ears and nose cut off and then selling him into slavery. Testimony recorded in the report stated that Columbus congratulated his brother Bartolomeo on "defending the family" when the latter ordered a woman paraded naked through the streets and then had her tongue cut out for suggesting that Columbus was of lowly birth.[98] The document also describes how Columbus put down native unrest and revolt: he first ordered a brutal crackdown in which many natives were killed, and then paraded their dismembered bodies through the streets in an attempt to discourage further rebellion.[99]

The Alma Mater wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:I knew this was gonna happen. Modi and his fans are so intent on inflaming religious tensions in India.

Again: muslims convert holy sites from other religions into mosques all the time. They've taken over quite a few churches that were now longer used due to people abandoning their faith.
Why should Hindus not be allowed to convert an old unused site formerly containing a mosque to a temple ?

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:I knew this was gonna happen. Modi and his fans are so intent on inflaming religious tensions in India.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:

The Alma Mater wrote:
Again: muslims convert holy sites from other religions into mosques all the time. They've taken over quite a few churches that were now longer used due to people abandoning their faith.
Why should Hindus not be allowed to convert an old unused site formerly containing a mosque to a temple ?

Two wrongs don't make a right. What certain muslims do doesnt justify Hindus saying "fuck your mosque," and I would rather this not happen at all.

Erdogan turning the Hagia Sophia into a mosque doesn't justify this. The Hagia Sophia is, I repeat, IS a Greek Orthodox Church, and that "Hindu Temple" is sitting on a mosque.

Outer Acharet wrote:

Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:We should've listened to Gandhi guys. It would make a great nuclear silo to obliterate his enemies.

In all seriousness though, I see nothing wrong with this.

This on the other hand. While the Confederate statues really are neo-Confederate propaganda, Christopher Columbus wasn't the guy murdering natives just fyi. It was actually disease and the conquistadors doing that (thanks, Hernan Cortes and Francisco Pizarro).

Ol' Chrissy wasn't innocent, either. You know how he got arrested and sent back to Europe? Twice?

Wikipedia wrote:Bobadilla reported to Spain that Columbus regularly used torture and mutilation to govern Hispaniola. The 48-page report, found in 2006 in the national archive in the Spanish city of Simancas, contains testimonies from 23 people, including both enemies and supporters of Columbus, about the treatment of colonial subjects by Columbus and his brothers during his seven-year rule.[98]

According to the report, Columbus once punished a man found guilty of stealing corn by having his ears and nose cut off and then selling him into slavery. Testimony recorded in the report stated that Columbus congratulated his brother Bartolomeo on "defending the family" when the latter ordered a woman paraded naked through the streets and then had her tongue cut out for suggesting that Columbus was of lowly birth.[98] The document also describes how Columbus put down native unrest and revolt: he first ordered a brutal crackdown in which many natives were killed, and then paraded their dismembered bodies through the streets in an attempt to discourage further rebellion.[99]

Christopher Columbus took the people of Hispaniola's gold, enslaved them, and had them mine for more until they died. And this was after he had converted them to Christianity, which was a big no-no to the Church. He was a brutal dictator and was stripped of his governing position by the Spanish monarchy for his deeds, only being allowed to return to the New World on his deathbed to see the land he'd uncovered.

However, IMO he's also an important figure, and many places' statues of him aren't celebrating these deeds. These deeds most often came to light in the modern day well after the statues were put up, which gives them time to become markers and symbols of the community. When they were built he was the man who discovered America, not a greedy tyrant.

Aureumterra wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Two wrongs don't make a right. What certain muslims do doesnt justify Hindus saying "fuck your mosque," and I would rather this not happen at all.

Erdogan turning the Hagia Sophia into a mosque doesn't justify this. The Hagia Sophia is, I repeat, IS a Greek Orthodox Church, and that "Hindu Temple" is sitting on a mosque.

The Mosque was built on top of the original Hindu Temple in 1527

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Erdogan turning the Hagia Sophia into a mosque doesn't justify this. The Hagia Sophia is, I repeat, IS a Greek Orthodox Church, and that "Hindu Temple" is sitting on a mosque.

Novus America wrote:True. It was still in dispute at the time. While I do not support vigilante destruction, now the courts have ruled the Hindus should have it. And the destruction is fait acompli.

Outer Acharet wrote:Those look like Eastern Orthodox symbols to you?

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:What was that rant about? Did you have to bring in your tangent for going against woke leftists?

-Astoria- wrote:

Outer Acharet wrote:Those look like Eastern Orthodox symbols to you?

There are still figures scattered around the building; not just in that one shot.

Although to be fair, they've now been hidden with curtains.

The Hindustani State wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:The Mosque was built on top of the original Hindu Temple in 1527

Babur buried the idols of the original temple under the steps of the Mosque so Hindu’s wouldn’t enter, it was built specifically to show the supremacy of Muslims over Hindus

Outer Acharet wrote:Yeah. Just commenting on how it's not a church anymore, and in the modern day, more of a museum than a mosque.
EDIT: And, to the people above, it's not even Erdogan who made it into a mosque at the exclusion of Christians. IIRC, it's been that way since the Ottomans took over Constantinople and went about re-branding the city.

The Alma Mater wrote:

Aclion wrote:This would be relevant if the confederate monuments had been built over black churches or something.

Mount Rushmore ?

-Astoria- wrote:

Outer Acharet wrote:Yeah. Just commenting on how it's not a church anymore, and in the modern day, more of a museum than a mosque.
EDIT: And, to the people above, it's not even Erdogan who made it into a mosque at the exclusion of Christians. IIRC, it's been that way since the Ottomans took over Constantinople and went about re-branding the city.

That's because (until recently) that was what it literally was for the past 86 years.