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by Bombadil » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:35 pm
by Novus America » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:40 pm
Bombadil wrote:Australia might go through an interesting experiment in that a great deal of their farming is done by migrant workers and due to the epidemic there is simply not enough hands to pick all the fruits and vegetables growing.. meaning, one, farmers are going to have a terrible time unable to farm their crops and, two, Australia is going to be low on food this autumn.
Perhaps it will lend some support for immigration and migrant workers once the effects of the loss is felt.
by Bombadil » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:44 pm
Novus America wrote:Bombadil wrote:Australia might go through an interesting experiment in that a great deal of their farming is done by migrant workers and due to the epidemic there is simply not enough hands to pick all the fruits and vegetables growing.. meaning, one, farmers are going to have a terrible time unable to farm their crops and, two, Australia is going to be low on food this autumn.
Perhaps it will lend some support for immigration and migrant workers once the effects of the loss is felt.
Not all migrants are immigrants. Most those workers were probably temporary guest workers, not immigrants. Guest workers are a related but different matter. Because they only arrive temporarily for a certain purpose than leave, rather than to actually become full fledged permanent members of society. Someone could support more temporary workers and yet oppose more permanent immigrants, and someone who is a good guest worker is not necessarily qualified to be a full immigrant.
In some extreme cases like the UAE there are more temporary workers than there are citizens and permanent residents.
by Neanderthaland » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:44 pm
Bombadil wrote:Australia might go through an interesting experiment in that a great deal of their farming is done by migrant workers and due to the epidemic there is simply not enough hands to pick all the fruits and vegetables growing.. meaning, one, farmers are going to have a terrible time unable to farm their crops and, two, Australia is going to be low on food this autumn.
Perhaps it will lend some support for immigration and migrant workers once the effects of the loss is felt.
by Region of Dwipantara » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:52 pm
Novus America wrote:Bombadil wrote:Australia might go through an interesting experiment in that a great deal of their farming is done by migrant workers and due to the epidemic there is simply not enough hands to pick all the fruits and vegetables growing.. meaning, one, farmers are going to have a terrible time unable to farm their crops and, two, Australia is going to be low on food this autumn.
Perhaps it will lend some support for immigration and migrant workers once the effects of the loss is felt.
Not all migrants are immigrants. Most those workers were probably temporary guest workers, not immigrants. Guest workers are a related but different matter. Because they only arrive temporarily for a certain purpose than leave, rather than to actually become full fledged permanent members of society. Someone could support more temporary workers and yet oppose more permanent immigrants, and someone who is a good guest worker is not necessarily qualified to be a full immigrant.
In some extreme cases like the UAE there are more temporary workers than there are citizens and permanent residents.
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by Solvokina » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:53 pm
by Atheris » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:59 pm
Novus America wrote:San Lumen wrote:Why not?
Was the Boston Marathon Bomber good? Obviously not.
Each immigrant is unique, so you cannot say immigration is good not bad without further clarification. Some immigrants are good, other immigrants are bad, because some people are better immigrants than others. Because people are unique individuals not a fungible commodity.
by Novus America » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:01 pm
Region of Dwipantara wrote:Japan. Though, there is an argument to be made that Japan is going for an economy based on AI and robots, eventually turning it into somekind of self-sustaining islands state. At that point, large population became less important.Novus America wrote:
Not all migrants are immigrants. Most those workers were probably temporary guest workers, not immigrants. Guest workers are a related but different matter. Because they only arrive temporarily for a certain purpose than leave, rather than to actually become full fledged permanent members of society. Someone could support more temporary workers and yet oppose more permanent immigrants, and someone who is a good guest worker is not necessarily qualified to be a full immigrant.
In some extreme cases like the UAE there are more temporary workers than there are citizens and permanent residents.
Oh yeah, 89% of UAE population are temporary migrants. You probably don't wanna go that far.
by Solvokina » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:07 pm
Novus America wrote:San Lumen wrote:Why not?
Was the Boston Marathon Bomber good? Obviously not.
Each immigrant is unique, so you cannot say immigration is good not bad without further clarification. Some immigrants are good, other immigrants are bad, because some people are better immigrants than others. Because people are unique individuals not a fungible commodity.
by Ceranapis » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:22 pm
Underrail Protectorate wrote:
Also with convincing people. Try telling them that better immigration is good, and not more. It's a better argument than telling them you want more people instead of better people.
Sao Nova Europa wrote:For those of us who reside in European ethno-states (Greece in my case, or Hungary, or Poland) and who do not place materialism/economic growth/viability of social security as primary factor in our politics, you would have to persuade us that a) immigration would not alter the demographics of the country and that X ethnic group (Greeks, Poles, etch) will remain overwhelming majority, b) immigration would not affect the culture of the country and that people coming here will become Greeks/Hungarians/Poles/etch in everything (from language, to traditions, to converting to local denomination of Christianity).
His Excellence wrote:Perhaps this applies more to the United States than elsewhere, but in my experience, one of the major factors that seems to entrench anti-immigration views is how often the rhetoric in support of immigration absolutely ignores the term 'illegal' when referring to illegal immigration, and treats immigration on either side of legality as the exact same discussion.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:27 pm
by The Romanian Confederacy » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:33 pm
Atheris wrote:You can't. It's not good, nor bad. It's a very complex issue that you can't label as black and white.
by The Alma Mater » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:51 pm
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Wider choice of food in restaurants.
I'm serious. Immigration tends to come in waves (at least it does here), primarily from one country or region at a time. Some immigrants manage to set up eateries, giving many of the local residents their first taste of that country's cuisine.
It doesn't always catch on. For instance I tried Mongolian cuisine once and I'm not a fan.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:07 am
The Alma Mater wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Wider choice of food in restaurants.
I'm serious. Immigration tends to come in waves (at least it does here), primarily from one country or region at a time. Some immigrants manage to set up eateries, giving many of the local residents their first taste of that country's cuisine.
It doesn't always catch on. For instance I tried Mongolian cuisine once and I'm not a fan.
While true, it is not enough if it is offset by negative things.
E.g. while people may very much enjoy couscous and kebab, they may still think negatively of muslim immigrants if the news keeps reporting them robbing purses and assaulting ladies.
by The Blaatschapen » Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:28 am
The Alma Mater wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Wider choice of food in restaurants.
I'm serious. Immigration tends to come in waves (at least it does here), primarily from one country or region at a time. Some immigrants manage to set up eateries, giving many of the local residents their first taste of that country's cuisine.
It doesn't always catch on. For instance I tried Mongolian cuisine once and I'm not a fan.
While true, it is not enough if it is offset by negative things.
E.g. while people may very much enjoy couscous and kebab, they may still think negatively of muslim immigrants if the news keeps reporting them robbing purses and assaulting ladies.
by Punished UMN » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:24 am
by The Blaatschapen » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:29 am
by Punished UMN » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:31 am
by Purpelia » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:35 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:42 am
The Blaatschapen wrote:The causal arrow is in the wrong direction. It's not necessarily that immigration is good. But that immigration happens when your country is doing well.
by -Astoria- » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:54 am
Everybody, drink.The Reformed American Republic wrote:It should be noted that some people want to use immigration as a form of demographic warfare and a cheap way to get votes.
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by Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:08 am
by The Reformed American Republic » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:11 am
by -Astoria- » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:16 am
If we're in a different reality; in the real world, that is just laughable.
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by The Reformed American Republic » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:21 am
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