NationStates

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:56 am**

I suspect the Lebanese government won't last the month.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:06 am**

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Galloism wrote:https://www.businessinsider.com/how-big-was-the-explosion-that-devastated-beirut-moab-2020-8

Estimates are the blast was between a few hundred tons and a kiloton of TNT equivalent.

Like someone used a Davy Crockett. About that big.

The Davy Crockett only had a yield of 10-20 tons so not quite.

Aye, the Beirut explosion was roughly equivalent to 1.1 - 1.5kt according to the University of Sheffield, so by tactical nukes that would be an AIR-2 Genie missile

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:15 am**

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:He is right, governments have laws and rules as to how stuff is stored particularly highly inflammatory material. Why this was not enforced is on the government. How they knew about it and let it sit is a crime. It should be a capital one.

In my own defense, I was only describing the early stages of the debacle. I did not exonerate the government, they handled it terribly after it was on the dock. However the shit would never have been on an unseaworthy vessel with a near mutinous crew, and it never would have come into Beirut harbor at all, if not for the criminal mismanagement of the owner of the ship.

It was stored unsafely on the dock. But it was only necessary to take it off the ship because it was stored unsafely there too. I'm not going to try to apportion the blame in numbers, between the ship owner and the Lebanon government, but I insist that the ship owner does bear some of the blame.

There is plenty of blame to go around, I do agree.

When we investigate accidents the worse they are the more likely the failure is a compound one, and not a single error.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:34 am**

Ethel mermania wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
In my own defense, I was only describing the early stages of the debacle. I did not exonerate the government, they handled it terribly after it was on the dock. However the shit would never have been on an unseaworthy vessel with a near mutinous crew, and it never would have come into Beirut harbor at all, if not for the criminal mismanagement of the owner of the ship.

It was stored unsafely on the dock. But it was only necessary to take it off the ship because it was stored unsafely there too. I'm not going to try to apportion the blame in numbers, between the ship owner and the Lebanon government, but I insist that the ship owner does bear some of the blame.

There is plenty of blame to go around, I do agree.

When we investigate accidents the worse they are the more likely the failure is a compound one, and not a single error.

"Failure chain" or "accident chain" are the usual jargon terms for the typically long set of mistakes that led to a serious accident. Hanlon's Razor -- never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity -- largely applies: while there may be some malice involved in some accidents, it rarely occurs in more than one link in any accident chain.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:51 pm**

Everyone go to the news. Motherfuckers are wilin out in Beirut

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:04 pm**

"Lebanese protesters forced their way into government ministries in Beirut and trashed the offices of the Association of Lebanese Banks on Saturday as shots rang out in increasingly angry demonstrations over this week's devastating explosion."
https://www.france24.com/en/20200808-le ... -explosion

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:08 pm**

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Everyone go to the news. Motherfuckers are wilin out in Beirut

Yeah rumors government officials are selling the remaining 15% of the food supply on the black market abound. I don't blame them for rioting.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:02 pm**

SD_Film Artists wrote:"Lebanese protesters forced their way into government ministries in Beirut and trashed the offices of the Association of Lebanese Banks on Saturday as shots rang out in increasingly angry demonstrations over this week's devastating explosion."
https://www.france24.com/en/20200808-le ... -explosion

I don't blame them for being angry. The sheer negligence shown here is appalling and the Lebanese(and honestly a lot of governments) government need to really fucking step their game up.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:04 pm**

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:It was stored unsafely on the dock. But it was only necessary to take it off the ship because it was stored unsafely there too. I'm not going to try to apportion the blame in numbers, between the ship owner and the Lebanon government, but I insist that the ship owner does bear some of the blame.

...moving it from one unsafe place to another unsafe place does absolutely fuck all, it is a net zero gain...

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:18 pm**

SD_Film Artists wrote:"Lebanese protesters forced their way into government ministries in Beirut and trashed the offices of the Association of Lebanese Banks on Saturday as shots rang out in increasingly angry demonstrations over this week's devastating explosion."
https://www.france24.com/en/20200808-le ... -explosion

The Beirut explosion is a culmination in all the government incompetence, corruption, and general failure to lead.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:29 pm**

The New California Republic wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:It was stored unsafely on the dock. But it was only necessary to take it off the ship because it was stored unsafely there too. I'm not going to try to apportion the blame in numbers, between the ship owner and the Lebanon government, but I insist that the ship owner does bear some of the blame.

...moving it from one unsafe place to another unsafe place does absolutely fuck all, it is a net zero gain...

Leaving it in the unsafe place for 6 years seems the most culpable though.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:50 pm**

Greed and Death wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:...moving it from one unsafe place to another unsafe place does absolutely fuck all, it is a net zero gain...

Leaving it in the unsafe place for 6 years seems the most culpable though.

Yes the fact it was left there for so long is what makes the warehouse option more dangerous. If they'd actually wanted to store it for a long period then it would have been better leaving it in the ship and mooring the ship a mile or so offshore, or storing it in a warehouse in the sticks so that it wasn't nearly as much of a risk.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:03 pm**

Some interesting graffiti

Outer Sparta wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:"Lebanese protesters forced their way into government ministries in Beirut and trashed the offices of the Association of Lebanese Banks on Saturday as shots rang out in increasingly angry demonstrations over this week's devastating explosion."
https://www.france24.com/en/20200808-le ... -explosion

The Beirut explosion is a culmination in all the government incompetence, corruption, and general failure to lead.

Andsed wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:"Lebanese protesters forced their way into government ministries in Beirut and trashed the offices of the Association of Lebanese Banks on Saturday as shots rang out in increasingly angry demonstrations over this week's devastating explosion."
https://www.france24.com/en/20200808-le ... -explosion

I don't blame them for being angry. The sheer negligence shown here is appalling and the Lebanese(and honestly a lot of governments) government need to really fucking step their game up.

Indeed, bureaucratic negligence is already disturbing without it causing over a hundred deaths.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:11 pm**

SD_Film Artists wrote:Some interesting graffiti
(Image)

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:31 pm**

The courts: You gotta move this shit. Its gonna blow up.

Michael Auon:

The Port: Explodes

Michael Auon: https://youtu.be/hEwYkm8IAmo

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:34 pm**

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:I suspect the Lebanese government won't last the month.

Hopefully you are right. It needs to be gone, completely rebuilt. The Lebanese government is beyond redemption.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:39 pm**

The New California Republic wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:Leaving it in the unsafe place for 6 years seems the most culpable though.

Yes the fact it was left there for so long is what makes the warehouse option more dangerous. If they'd actually wanted to store it for a long period then it would have been better leaving it in the ship and mooring the ship a mile or so offshore, or storing it in a warehouse in the sticks so that it wasn't nearly as much of a risk.

Yes. The correct way to store large amount explosives is to divide them up into smaller amounts, store those smaller amounts in separate explosion resistant bunkers, with fire suppression systems, and place those bunkers a safe distance away from inhabited areas.

Looking something like this https://images.app.goo.gl/oNk53kkTPTKRbrjD8

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:58 pm**

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:In my own defense, I was only describing the early stages of the debacle. I did not exonerate the government, they handled it terribly after it was on the dock. However the shit would never have been on an unseaworthy vessel with a near mutinous crew, and it never would have come into Beirut harbor at all, if not for the criminal mismanagement of the owner of the ship.

It was stored unsafely on the dock. But it was only necessary to take it off the ship because it was stored unsafely there too. I'm not going to try to apportion the blame in numbers, between the ship owner and the Lebanon government, but I insist that the ship owner does bear some of the blame.

My point was simply that this wasn't just a single ****up. It's a multi **** pileup cluster**** of a catastrophic epic fail on every level by everyone involved with way too many guilty to shoot without being accused of genocide. If you excuse the melodramatic tone. There is literally nobody involved in this that isn't guilty of at least criminal negligence. At least.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:33 pm**

The PM’s called for early elections in response to the unrest.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:50 pm**

Kowani wrote:The PM’s called for early elections in response to the unrest.

They ought to fucking resign. They did an awful job. At this rate Michel Auon is like the soft spoken Arab Donald Trump...so not trump at all actually. Lol.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:39 am**

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Kowani wrote:The PM’s called for early elections in response to the unrest.

They ought to fucking resign. They did an awful job. At this rate Michel Auon is like the soft spoken Arab Donald Trump...so not trump at all actually. Lol.

Less Trump, & more just simply incompetent.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:18 am**

Kowani wrote:The PM’s called for early elections in response to the unrest.

Hope the governing party gets slaughtered in the elections

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:26 am**

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Kowani wrote:The PM’s called for early elections in response to the unrest.

They ought to fucking resign. They did an awful job. At this rate Michel Auon is like the soft spoken Arab Donald Trump...so not trump at all actually. Lol.

He's also 85 years old. Clearly someone with a dynamic and clear vision for the future of his country.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:36 am**

Kowani wrote:The PM’s called for early elections in response to the unrest.

Quite correct.

A government bent on maintaining power regardless of the will of the people, would call for a delay in elections. In the chance the people's rage might burn itself out, or succumb to police suppression. Or just to have a little longer in power.

A government more interested in the continuity of government itself, would bring elections forward to offer themselves as a sacrifice and avert a popular uprising.

Clearly these politicians didn't rise to power by being big in game show TV. They understand that fucking up government would lead to them being dead.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:43 am**

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Kowani wrote:The PM’s called for early elections in response to the unrest.

They ought to fucking resign. They did an awful job. At this rate Michel Auon is like the soft spoken Arab Donald Trump...so not trump at all actually. Lol.

Resigning is not the best option. Calling an election, letting the people exercise the vote to (politically) beat the crap out of the leaders, is much much better. For the good of their party though, I expect they'll take the middle road: resign and then, shortly after, face the election with new leaders.

Well you can't always get what you want.

NationStates

Large explosion in Beirut - hundreds reported injured