NationStates

Region of Dwipantara wrote:I'm pretty sure the "culprit" is these welding workers as documented by photograph, though that means the real culprit is gross negligence on the warehouse's side. Anyways, this will likely be "Lebanon's Chernobyl" that significantly increases resentment against the establishment.

I think the ultimate responsibility lies with the judges who ignored the opportunity to move the ammonium nitrate despite having received written requests to do so.

The port management were simply hosting the AN rather than having control over it. That said, they could have surely done something to make it safer.

SD_Film Artists wrote:

Region of Dwipantara wrote:I'm pretty sure the "culprit" is these welding workers as documented by photograph, though that means the real culprit is gross negligence on the warehouse's side. Anyways, this will likely be "Lebanon's Chernobyl" that significantly increases resentment against the establishment.

I think the ultimate responsibility lies with the judges who ignored the opportunity to move the ammonium nitrate despite receiving written requests to do so.

The port management were simply hosting the AN rather than having control over it. That said, they could have surely done something to make it safer.

Dumping it in the harbor might work. It's an endothermic reaction meaning no chance of explosion. It might release NO₂ which is a lot of fun, however is also an oxidant. Also dissolved ions of ammonia which I guess would kill all the fish ...

It's not the best option, I admit (and salt water would complicate the reaction), but it would have got rid of the problem with many fewer lives lost.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

SD_Film Artists wrote:
I think the ultimate responsibility lies with the judges who ignored the opportunity to move the ammonium nitrate despite receiving written requests to do so.

The port management were simply hosting the AN rather than having control over it. That said, they could have surely done something to make it safer.

Dumping it in the harbor might work. It's an endothermic reaction meaning no chance of explosion. It might release NO₂ which is a lot of fun, however is also an oxidant. Also dissolved ions of ammonia which I guess would kill all the fish ...

It's not the best option, I admit (and salt water would complicate the reaction), but it would have got rid of the problem with many fewer lives lost.

Or, you know, sell it to other country or donate it to the military, like requested by the customs authority six years ago.

But even with the government authority completely clueless, the AN survived without exploding for 6 years. The photograph of the welding just seems ridiculously asinine, so preventable. But then again if this incident doesn't happen, that's just moving the ticking time bomb to the future.

La xinga wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
So why are you suggesting it's anything other than the tragic accident it's being reported as?

I said it may be some rebellious youth, I'm not saying terrorism, although it could be.

Salandriagado wrote:
If you leave thousands of tons of explosive material sitting in poorly controlled conditions for years, bad things happen.

Years?

The ammonium nitrate has been in that warehouse since MV Rhosus was abandoned in 2014.

La xinga wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
What makes you think it might be some rebellious youth? What evidence do you have for that?

Is there any evidence for a mistake? No? Exactly.

Yes. Lots. Specifically, they put ammonium nitrate in poorly controlled conditions and left it there for years.

Salandriagado wrote:

La xinga wrote:Is there any evidence for a mistake? No? Exactly.

Yes. Lots. Specifically, they put ammonium nitrate in poorly controlled conditions and left it there for years.

Six years. And the fact that the customs authority already protested against that, and that they are ignored, and the terrible work security measures shown on the photograph....

Picairn wrote:I'm still not sure how the ammonium nitrate was contaminated with oil though, since it requires 4%-5% of oil to become an explosive.

Not quite. 4-5% oil content lowers the flash point to a level that's commonly achieved. There are piles of other possible contaminants that do the same thing, and uncontaminated ammonium nitrate still has a relatively low flash point (notably lower than the temperature achieved by, say, welding torches).

Also, before being in the warehouse, the ammonium nitrate was stored on a ship that was (a) damaged, and (b) legally declared unseaworthy. Oil contamination is not at all implausible.

Just when Lebanon didn't need to get any worse, this explosion blows half of the city of Beirut off the earth.

That's their main seaport. Imports are gonna drop without it, thousands of people are homeless and I'm sure many jobs were lost when they were detonated without warning. I said it before here, but I dont see any recovery for Beirut from this explosion. With the state Lebanon is currently in as a country, i think that explosion was some strange symbolism of the final months of a nation.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Just when Lebanon didn't need to get any worse, this explosion blows half of the city of Beirut off the earth.

That's their main seaport. Imports are gonna drop without it, thousands of people are homeless and I'm sure many jobs were lost when they were detonated without warning. I said it before here, but I dont see any recovery for Beirut from this explosion. With the state Lebanon is currently in as a country, i think that explosion was some strange symbolism of the final months of a nation.

A lot of the buildings in the port area that were heavily damaged are simple steel frame sheds, which can be rebuilt in a matter of weeks once the bulldozers level the site. It isn't worth trying to repair the damaged sheds, it's easier and quicker to just level them and rebuild. The infrastructure of the port such as the cranes look intact, so it could be back to full operating capacity again in a month with enough men and materials for reconstruction.

The concrete grain silo is a different story. Alternative arrangements for grain storage will need to be made while that is levelled, as it will take far longer to rebuild that in comparison to the sheds, since it is a reinforced poured concrete structure. And it likely will need to be levelled, as it has taken severe damage and looks to be deformed beyond repair.

Bombadil wrote:

Galloism wrote:Wait, they were welding next to a giant immense pile of ammonium nitrate?

"Jim, we need to update the safety manual.."

Did you see the picture they showed? The guy doing the welding wasn't wearing a face shield. The rest of them are just standing around looking at him....

forgetting for a moment they were welding around ammonium nitrate, Any safety inspector would have had a coronary before being able to stop them

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Just when Lebanon didn't need to get any worse, this explosion blows half of the city of Beirut off the earth.

That's their main seaport. Imports are gonna drop without it, thousands of people are homeless and I'm sure many jobs were lost when they were detonated without warning. I said it before here, but I dont see any recovery for Beirut from this explosion. With the state Lebanon is currently in as a country, i think that explosion was some strange symbolism of the final months of a nation.

You should avoid interpreting anything as a bad omen. Nothing good ever comes from that kind of thinking: either you're right and something terrible happens to Lebanon, or you're wrong and you feel like an idiot for believing in omens.

It's probably just this awful year, getting you down.

Costa Fierro wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Is that you speculating, or did you read that somewhere?

The welding is also unconfirmed, but it wouldn't surprise me, although each bag weighs approximately one ton.

They would pull up with a truck wheelbarrows and shovels no need to take the whole ton in one go.

Greed and Death wrote:

Costa Fierro wrote:
The welding is also unconfirmed, but it wouldn't surprise me, although each bag weighs approximately one ton.

They would pull up with a truck wheelbarrows and shovels no need to take the whole ton in one go.

"They would" not "they did" I notice.

Just so we're clear, there isn't a credible accusation that farmers were stealing the stuff from the warehouse?

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
They would pull up with a truck wheelbarrows and shovels no need to take the whole ton in one go.

"They would" not "they did" I notice.

Just so we're clear, there isn't a credible accusation that farmers were stealing the stuff from the warehouse?

Strictly speaking, it would have better if they had.

Galloism wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
"They would" not "they did" I notice.

Just so we're clear, there isn't a credible accusation that farmers were stealing the stuff from the warehouse?

Strictly speaking, it would have better if they had.

Less left to go boom.

Galloism wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
"They would" not "they did" I notice.

Just so we're clear, there isn't a credible accusation that farmers were stealing the stuff from the warehouse?

Strictly speaking, it would have better if they had.

Once it was seized by the state it should have been portioned out to the Lebanese farms.

Galloism wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
"They would" not "they did" I notice.

Just so we're clear, there isn't a credible accusation that farmers were stealing the stuff from the warehouse?

Strictly speaking, it would have better if they had.

Or if the government had given it away ... er, but only to farmers.

Donkey carts only. Trucks will not be served!

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Just when Lebanon didn't need to get any worse, this explosion blows half of the city of Beirut off the earth.

That's their main seaport. Imports are gonna drop without it, thousands of people are homeless and I'm sure many jobs were lost when they were detonated without warning. I said it before here, but I dont see any recovery for Beirut from this explosion. With the state Lebanon is currently in as a country, i think that explosion was some strange symbolism of the final months of a nation.

You should avoid interpreting anything as a bad omen. Nothing good ever comes from that kind of thinking: either you're right and something terrible happens to Lebanon, or you're wrong and you feel like an idiot for believing in omens.

It's probably just this awful year, getting you down.

Not an omen, no magic was involved. But the explosion is what a state in collapse looks like. Everything goes wrong, people lose everything and no recovery is made. I'm not the only person who thinks Lebanon is in a state of collapse. They've been saying it is for over a month now and I'm pretty sure a majority of Lebanese citizens would agree with me that there isn't much hope left for their country.

I don’t know where but I remember reading somewhere that some ancient Greek inscription warned of 2020 being a cursed year

Anyways, this is really shitty as it could’ve easily been avoided by taking basic care of the warehouse

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
You should avoid interpreting anything as a bad omen. Nothing good ever comes from that kind of thinking: either you're right and something terrible happens to Lebanon, or you're wrong and you feel like an idiot for believing in omens.

It's probably just this awful year, getting you down.

Not an omen, no magic was involved. But the explosion is what a state in collapse looks like. Everything goes wrong, people lose everything and no recovery is made. I'm not the only person who thinks Lebanon is in a state of collapse. They've been saying it is for over a month now and I'm pretty sure a majority of Lebanese citizens would agree with me that there isn't much hope left for their country.

Well OK, I won't argue with public opinion. The explosion may have been started by some welders; that would support the idea of a failing government: the Ammonium Nitrate was government property but wasn't being guarded (at least in times the warehouse was open), there wasn't a permit system requiring the warehouse manager to inform or seek permission before doing anything near the NH4NO3, there may not have been warning signs posted. There are multiple failures (not just the government) but. Do we know the exact same thing couldn't have happened any time in the last 6 years?

It was a disaster waiting to happen. So it happening NOW doesn't have any special meaning.

No State Here wrote:I don’t know where but I remember reading somewhere that some ancient Greek inscription warned of 2020 being a cursed year

Anyways, this is really shitty as it could’ve easily been avoided by taking basic care of the warehouse

They didn't even really need to properly guard the warehouse. If they had disposed or used the ammonium nitrate, this whole event wouldn’t have happened either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -now-this/

This blast made things worse than they already were in Lebanon.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Not an omen, no magic was involved. But the explosion is what a state in collapse looks like. Everything goes wrong, people lose everything and no recovery is made. I'm not the only person who thinks Lebanon is in a state of collapse. They've been saying it is for over a month now and I'm pretty sure a majority of Lebanese citizens would agree with me that there isn't much hope left for their country.

Well OK, I won't argue with public opinion. The explosion may have been started by some welders; that would support the idea of a failing government: the Ammonium Nitrate was government property but wasn't being guarded (at least in times the warehouse was open), there wasn't a permit system requiring the warehouse manager to inform or seek permission before doing anything near the NH4NO3, there may not have been warning signs posted. There are multiple failures (not just the government) but. Do we know the exact same thing couldn't have happened any time in the last 6 years?

It was a disaster waiting to happen. So it happening NOW doesn't have any special meaning.

It really does though. The current state of affairs in Lebanon was in the making for years.

No State Here wrote:I don’t know where but I remember reading somewhere that some ancient Greek inscription warned of 2020 being a cursed year

It’d be interesting if all coronavirus cases suddenly disappear at exactly 12:00 AM on January 1st 2021, and every single person who died was resurrected

As a zombie

Massive expansion destroys Main Port in Failing Arab State, Let's look at what we know.
Hezbollah- A Terrorist Organization responsible for countless attacks on Israel.
Lebanon- A failing state That hates Israel and claims they have nothing to do with it.
Israel- Claims they have nothing to do with It.

Now let's speculate a little, What could have happened.
A Freak accident- Wow High Explosives stored improperly cause big explosion who would have guessed.

Oh Hezbollah- Hezbollah is known to launch Rocket attacks from Schools, Hospitals, and other Places Illegal to Launch Rockets from to prevent Israeli Retaliation. So is it to much of a Stretch to Suspect they also store Rockets where they don't belong?

Israel does it again- This very well could have been the work of America's Favorite Jewish Nation. But they Denied it so It's most likely not them.

Wow They made a Nuke- This is a joke but it would be funny if Lebron got a nuke and Instantly blew themselves up by mistake.

So What now? We wait to know more before we do anything crazy. If this is the Death Blow of Lebanon I think Israel should annex the country to handle Hezbollah and to keep the people from starving. There's no reason Israel can't be for the Lebanese, Palestinians, and Jews.