On blaming religion for Trump

[Myrensis]

What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump's Supreme Court justice wrote the opinion that finally recognized our right not to be discriminated against based on our sexual orientation or gender identity, something the Democrats couldn't do with 26 years of debate on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act/Equality Act in Congress.

Those are some nice alternative facts you've got there.

Trumps Supreme Court Justice wrote that opinion over the objections of the Trump Administration. Trump can't actually tell a SCOTUS Justice what to do, he can very much tell the DOJ what to argue in front of them, and they argued against protections for LGBT Americans. Just like they're still arguing to allow federally funded adoption agencies to refuse to place children with LGBT parents.

And I shudder to imagine how much kool-aid you have to be drinking to declare Mitt Romney the flagbearer for American Evangelicalism. Mormons are barely one step above Satanists and Muslims as far as Evangelicals are concerned. The idea that his voting to impeach Trump signifies some Evangelical repudiation is beyond laughable.

Evangelicals were and are among Trumps most fervent supporters, still convinced that he was chosen by God to make America straight, white, and Christian again. Or at least that he's willing to trade political favors to that end for their support.

[Aclion]

Consider this postion "You have the freedom to marry who you want, but if you marry someone I disapprove of you should be imprisoned. The freedom to marry isn't a freedom from consequences"
I think you'll agree that that completely undermines any meaningful right to marriage. The whole point of a freedom, after all, is that the government cannot punish you for exercising it. If a freedom does not include so called "freedom from consequences" it is no freedom at all.

Except you forget to take into account the scope of the law which protects marriages the same way minority groups are protected from malicious business practices. It isnt a simple case of "My Rights over Yours", there are nuances that prevents abuse and upholds the common good.

I didn't forget, my whole point is that this argument undermines any protection at all.

Consider this postion "You have the freedom to marry who you want, but if you marry someone I disapprove of you should be imprisoned. The freedom to marry isn't a freedom from consequences"
I think you'll agree that that completely undermines any meaningful right to marriage. The whole point of a freedom, after all, is that the government cannot punish you for exercising it. If a freedom does not include so called "freedom from consequences" it is no freedom at all.

EDIT: on topic; You got it completely wrong, the evangelical wing is the wing that Trump has had the most trouble with, beside the bush era neocons. There's a reason Mitt Romney: last hurrah of american evangelicalism, was the only republican to vote to impeach him. Trump broke away from the evangelical wing by his support for LGBT rights.

What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump has spoken out in favor of LGBT rights since before "LGBT" was a thing and people were just gay. He is the first president to be elected on a platform supporting gay marriage, and the first republican president to promote pride month.
He's launched a program to decriminalize homosexuality worldwide, and another to eliminate HIV and AIDS in the US.
He nominated Patrick Bumatay to the 9th circuit(twice, because it got kicked back the first time) the second openly gay person to hold a circuit position. He appointed R. Clarke Cooper, an LGBT activist, to assistant secretary of state for military affairs, the benift of which is obvious.

The fact that democrats won't acknowledge or celebrate these moves doesn't mean Trump doesn't support gay right, they just don't like these moves because they want to own the LGBT movement. Ironically the anti gay lobby in the republican party and the "progay"(yet somehow not on the bandwagon until it became politically expedient) lobby in democrat party both fear Trump for the same reason, he's breaking down the 2000's dichotomy on LGBT issues and creating a world where both parties support LGBT rights. And that's terrifying for those that have used creating conflict between religion and LGBT rights as an alternative to actually working for everyone.

And I shudder to imagine how much kool-aid you have to be drinking to declare Mitt Romney the flagbearer for American Evangelicalism. Mormons are barely one step above Satanists and Muslims as far as Evangelicals are concerned. The idea that his voting to impeach Trump signifies some Evangelical repudiation is beyond laughable.

Mormons and Evangelicals are allied politically, due to their shared interest in preserving a religious influence on the republican party. That doesn't mean they're theologically aligned, just that their theological differences aren't relevant to their policy desires. It's no different from coal power companies and environmentalists allying to oppose nuclear.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Except you forget to take into account the scope of the law which protects marriages the same way minority groups are protected from malicious business practices. It isnt a simple case of "My Rights over Yours", there are nuances that prevents abuse and upholds the common good.

I didn't forget, my whole point is that this argument undermines any protection at all.

What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump has spoken out in favor of LGBT rights since before "LGBT" was a thing and people were just gay. He is the first president to be elected on a platform supporting gay marriage, and the first republican president to promote pride month.
He's launched a program to decriminalize homosexuality worldwide, and another to eliminate HIV and AIDS in the US.
He nominated Patrick Bumatay to the 9th circuit(twice, because it got kicked back the first time) the second openly gay person to hold a circuit position. He appointed R. Clarke Cooper, an LGBT activist, to assistant secretary of state for military affairs, the benift of which is obvious.

The fact that democrats won't acknowledge or celebrate these moves doesn't mean Trump doesn't support gay right, they just don't like these moves because they want to own the LGBT movement. Ironically the anti gay lobby in the republican party and the "progay"(yet somehow not on the bandwagon until it became politically expedient) lobby in democrat party bothfear Trump for the same reason, he's breaking down the 2000's dichotomy on LGBT issues and creating a world where both parties support LGBT rights. And that's terrifying for those that have used creating conflict between religion and LGBT rights as an alternative to actually working for everyone.

That's factually wrong. The first president to support gay marriage and celebrate pride month was Obama in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And just like with LGBT rights under Trump, the gay marriage part came from not himself, but from the California Supreme Court (although Obama really did make Pride Month official, so that part was truly him).

[Tombradyonia]

He's launched a program to decriminalize homosexuality worldwide, and another to eliminate HIV and AIDS in the US.
He nominated Patrick Bumatay to the 9th circuit(twice, because it got kicked back the first time) the second openly gay person to hold a circuit position. He appointed R. Clarke Cooper, an LGBT activist, to assistant secretary of state for military affairs, the benift of which is obvious.

The fact that democrats won't acknowledge or celebrate these moves doesn't mean Trump doesn't support gay right, they just don't like these moves because they want to own the LGBT movement. Ironically the anti gay lobby in the republican party and the "progay"(yet somehow not on the bandwagon until it became politically expedient) lobby in democrat party bothfear Trump for the same reason, he's breaking down the 2000's dichotomy on LGBT issues and creating a world where both parties support LGBT rights. And that's terrifying for those that have used creating conflict between religion and LGBT rights as an alternative to actually working for everyone.

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:

1 Opposition to the Equality Act: Despite support from almost every segment of the U.S. population and a majority of Republicans, President Trump opposed the Equality Act. In May, the House passed the Equality Act, voting to guarantee critical non-discrimination protections for LGBTQ people among other crucial rights.

2 Appointed anti-LGBTQ judges: Trump has appointed anti-LGBTQ judges with alarming anti-LGBTQ records to appointments at every level of the judicial system, including anti-equality Supreme Court Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and federal nominees Kacsmaryk, Mateer, Bounds, Vitter. Menashi and others.

3 Supported employment discrimination against LGBTQ people: The Trump administration submitted amicus briefs to the U.S. Supreme Court supporting discrimination against LGBTQ people.

4 Banned transgender service members from the military: Against the expert advice of military leadership, medical authorities, budget analysts, 70% of Americans and the armed forces of allied countries, Trump and Pence banned transgender people from serving in the military.

5 Rolled back Obama-era non-discrimination protections: Trump’s Department of Justice upended previous DOJ interpretations of the Civil Rights Act that protect transgender and non-binary workers from employment discrimination and ceased enforcing non-discrimination protections as well as taking a hostile stance to LGBTQ workers in court.

6 Issued rule to license discrimination: Trump’s Department of Labor issued a regulation designed to allow federal contractors to claim a religious exemption to fire LGBTQ workers because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
Kicked people living with HIV out of the military because of their status: The Department of Defense instituted a “Deploy or Get Out” policy, which would remove military personnel living with HIV from service solely because of their status.

7 Created a hostile work environment for LGBTQ federal employees: According to Politico: “[The Trump administration] fostered a climate where six staffers who are LGBT described removing their wedding rings before coming to work in the morning, taking down photos of their partners and families or ultimately finding new jobs further away from certain political appointees. They did not want to be identified; two said they feared being reassigned for being gay.”

8 Undermined Section 1557 Rule: HHS published a proposed major change to the administrative rule interpreting Section 1557 of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) to remove explicit protections for LGBTQ people in healthcare programs and activities by excluding LGBTQ people from protections from discrimination based on sex stereotyping and gender identity.

9 Created a Religious Discrimination Division: HHS created a new office whose sole purpose would be to defend physicians and other medical professionals who decide to refuse care, including to LGBTQ patients.

10 Guidance for Schools on Transgender Students: The Departments of Education and Justice eliminated Obama-era guidance clarifying that schools must treat transgender students consistent with their gender identity. This encourages schools officials to permit harassment of transgender students, deny access to facilities consistent with gender identity, and refuse to use correct names and pronouns -- all inflicting untold emotional harm.

11 Rejected Complaints From Transgender Students: The Department of Education refused to respond to civil complaints filed by transgender students, including those who were barred from using bathrooms that correspond with their gender identity. This increases the burden for transgender students to combat these harmful policies.

12 Suggested it is acceptable for schools to discriminate against LGBTQ students while accepting tax-payer funds: Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos has refused to rule out federal funding for schools that discriminate against LGBTQ students and has declined to state she would otherwise intervene should discrimination occur.

13 Sexual Assault: DeVos rescinded Title IX rules related to schools’ obligations to address sexual harassment, including sexual violence. By eliminating the Obama-era rules, DeVos increased the standard of proof from “preponderance of the evidence” to “clear and convincing evidence” making it more difficult for survivors of sexual assault to obtain justice. LGBTQ people are disproportionately affected by sexual assault and harassment, and the stigma that many LGBTQ people face can make it more difficult for survivors to report.

14 Eliminated language protecting LGBTQ children participating in the 4-H program: The Trump-Pence Administration ordered 4-H programs to remove a policy specifically welcoming LGBTQ children in the 4-H program, which led to the firing of an official who protested.

15 Used Title IX to discriminate against trans students: the Department of Education claimed that school policies allowing trans youth to participate in sports consistent with their gender identity violated federal law and threatened to withhold funds.

16 Allowed emergency shelters to deny access to transgender and gender nonconforming people: Despite the fact that LGBTQ people are significantly more likely to experience homelessness in their lives, HUD Secretary Ben Carson has proposed a rule to permit emergency shelters to deny access or otherwise discriminate against transgender and gender nonconforming peoplewho are homeless. HUD also canceled a scheduled survey on LGBTQ homelessness.

17 Placed transgender incarcerated persons in the wrong prison: The Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) rolled back an Obama-era policy that housed transgender prisoners consistent with their gender identity. With transgender people experiencing sexual assault at higher rates than average, this decision only puts them at further risk of assault.

18 Allowed foster care programs to discriminate while accepting tax-payer funds: Trump-Pence White House has proposed a federal regulation that would strip away nondiscrimination requirements and permit all Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) grant recipients, notably adoption and foster care agencies, to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and in many circumstances religious minorities and women, and still receive federal funding.

19 Refused visas to partners of diplomats: The State Department began refusing visas for same-sex partners of some diplomats and U.N. workers if they are not married.

20 Changed rules to deny surrogate born children citizenship: The Trump Administration has interpreted immigration rules specifically so the child of a same-sex couple born abroad via surrogate would be considered "born out of wedlock" and making it more difficult to obtain U.S. citizenship.

21 Trump’s HHS proposed a new definition that would narrowly define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by birth. According to the New York Times: “The new definition would essentially eradicate federal recognition of the estimated 1.4 million [transgender] Americans.” In addition, agency staff, including those at the Centers for Disease Control, have been instructed to stop using the word transgender in official reports.

22 Eliminated information on LGBTQ rights, mentions, and representation on government websites: Within hours of Trump’s swearing-in, pages on LGBTQ rights and recognition were removed from government websites, including the White House.

23 Blocked questions regarding sexual orientation from consideration for the census: Trump and Pence have sought to block questions on sexual orientation from the census in order to erase LGBTQ people from official counts. This would, in turn, prevent the collection of crucial data that could help improve government programs and resources for LGBTQ people.

24 Refused to recognize LGBTQ people in National AIDS day Address: Despite being the community most affected by the epidemic, Vice President Pence has consistently refused to acknowledge LGBTQ people in his addresses on National AIDS day.

25 Proposed cutting over $1.35 billion from PEPFAR budget: In his proposed FY 2019 budget, Trump cut $1.35 billion from, or 29% of PEPFAR’s budget. PEPFAR is the U.S. government program that fights AIDS abroad.

This list isn't even everything, just the 'highlights' (or should that be lowlights).

So I want to ask you, how exactly is Trump pro gay, again?
How exactly should we 'celebrate' these moves?

Trump is pandering to a rather nasty group of right wing extremist evangelicals, represented in his administration by the vile Mike Pence, one of the worst state governors that ever was and in my opinion an imbecile who thinks bible > science.

[Juristonia]

He's launched a program to decriminalize homosexuality worldwide, and another to eliminate HIV and AIDS in the US.
He nominated Patrick Bumatay to the 9th circuit(twice, because it got kicked back the first time) the second openly gay person to hold a circuit position. He appointed R. Clarke Cooper, an LGBT activist, to assistant secretary of state for military affairs, the benift of which is obvious.

The fact that democrats won't acknowledge or celebrate these moves doesn't mean Trump doesn't support gay right, they just don't like these moves because they want to own the LGBT movement. Ironically the anti gay lobby in the republican party and the "progay"(yet somehow not on the bandwagon until it became politically expedient) lobby in democrat party bothfear Trump for the same reason, he's breaking down the 2000's dichotomy on LGBT issues and creating a world where both parties support LGBT rights. And that's terrifying for those that have used creating conflict between religion and LGBT rights as an alternative to actually working for everyone.

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:

1 Opposition to the Equality Act: Despite support from almost every segment of the U.S. population and a majority of Republicans, President Trump opposed the Equality Act. In May, the House passed the Equality Act, voting to guarantee critical non-discrimination protections for LGBTQ people among other crucial rights.

2 Appointed anti-LGBTQ judges: Trump has appointed anti-LGBTQ judges with alarming anti-LGBTQ records to appointments at every level of the judicial system, including anti-equality Supreme Court Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and federal nominees Kacsmaryk, Mateer, Bounds, Vitter. Menashi and others.

3 Supported employment discrimination against LGBTQ people: The Trump administration submitted amicus briefs to the U.S. Supreme Court supporting discrimination against LGBTQ people.

4 Banned transgender service members from the military: Against the expert advice of military leadership, medical authorities, budget analysts, 70% of Americans and the armed forces of allied countries, Trump and Pence banned transgender people from serving in the military.

5 Rolled back Obama-era non-discrimination protections: Trump’s Department of Justice upended previous DOJ interpretations of the Civil Rights Act that protect transgender and non-binary workers from employment discrimination and ceased enforcing non-discrimination protections as well as taking a hostile stance to LGBTQ workers in court.

6 Issued rule to license discrimination: Trump’s Department of Labor issued a regulation designed to allow federal contractors to claim a religious exemption to fire LGBTQ workers because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
Kicked people living with HIV out of the military because of their status: The Department of Defense instituted a “Deploy or Get Out” policy, which would remove military personnel living with HIV from service solely because of their status.

7 Created a hostile work environment for LGBTQ federal employees: According to Politico: “[The Trump administration] fostered a climate where six staffers who are LGBT described removing their wedding rings before coming to work in the morning, taking down photos of their partners and families or ultimately finding new jobs further away from certain political appointees. They did not want to be identified; two said they feared being reassigned for being gay.”

8 Undermined Section 1557 Rule: HHS published a proposed major change to the administrative rule interpreting Section 1557 of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) to remove explicit protections for LGBTQ people in healthcare programs and activities by excluding LGBTQ people from protections from discrimination based on sex stereotyping and gender identity.

9 Created a Religious Discrimination Division: HHS created a new office whose sole purpose would be to defend physicians and other medical professionals who decide to refuse care, including to LGBTQ patients.

10 Guidance for Schools on Transgender Students: The Departments of Education and Justice eliminated Obama-era guidance clarifying that schools must treat transgender students consistent with their gender identity. This encourages schools officials to permit harassment of transgender students, deny access to facilities consistent with gender identity, and refuse to use correct names and pronouns -- all inflicting untold emotional harm.

11 Rejected Complaints From Transgender Students: The Department of Education refused to respond to civil complaints filed by transgender students, including those who were barred from using bathrooms that correspond with their gender identity. This increases the burden for transgender students to combat these harmful policies.

12 Suggested it is acceptable for schools to discriminate against LGBTQ students while accepting tax-payer funds: Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos has refused to rule out federal funding for schools that discriminate against LGBTQ students and has declined to state she would otherwise intervene should discrimination occur.

13 Sexual Assault: DeVos rescinded Title IX rules related to schools’ obligations to address sexual harassment, including sexual violence. By eliminating the Obama-era rules, DeVos increased the standard of proof from “preponderance of the evidence” to “clear and convincing evidence” making it more difficult for survivors of sexual assault to obtain justice. LGBTQ people are disproportionately affected by sexual assault and harassment, and the stigma that many LGBTQ people face can make it more difficult for survivors to report.

14 Eliminated language protecting LGBTQ children participating in the 4-H program: The Trump-Pence Administration ordered 4-H programs to remove a policy specifically welcoming LGBTQ children in the 4-H program, which led to the firing of an official who protested.

15 Used Title IX to discriminate against trans students: the Department of Education claimed that school policies allowing trans youth to participate in sports consistent with their gender identity violated federal law and threatened to withhold funds.

16 Allowed emergency shelters to deny access to transgender and gender nonconforming people: Despite the fact that LGBTQ people are significantly more likely to experience homelessness in their lives, HUD Secretary Ben Carson has proposed a rule to permit emergency shelters to deny access or otherwise discriminate against transgender and gender nonconforming peoplewho are homeless. HUD also canceled a scheduled survey on LGBTQ homelessness.

17 Placed transgender incarcerated persons in the wrong prison: The Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) rolled back an Obama-era policy that housed transgender prisoners consistent with their gender identity. With transgender people experiencing sexual assault at higher rates than average, this decision only puts them at further risk of assault.

18 Allowed foster care programs to discriminate while accepting tax-payer funds: Trump-Pence White House has proposed a federal regulation that would strip away nondiscrimination requirements and permit all Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) grant recipients, notably adoption and foster care agencies, to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and in many circumstances religious minorities and women, and still receive federal funding.

19 Refused visas to partners of diplomats: The State Department began refusing visas for same-sex partners of some diplomats and U.N. workers if they are not married.

20 Changed rules to deny surrogate born children citizenship: The Trump Administration has interpreted immigration rules specifically so the child of a same-sex couple born abroad via surrogate would be considered "born out of wedlock" and making it more difficult to obtain U.S. citizenship.

21 Trump’s HHS proposed a new definition that would narrowly define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by birth. According to the New York Times: “The new definition would essentially eradicate federal recognition of the estimated 1.4 million [transgender] Americans.” In addition, agency staff, including those at the Centers for Disease Control, have been instructed to stop using the word transgender in official reports.

22 Eliminated information on LGBTQ rights, mentions, and representation on government websites: Within hours of Trump’s swearing-in, pages on LGBTQ rights and recognition were removed from government websites, including the White House.

23 Blocked questions regarding sexual orientation from consideration for the census: Trump and Pence have sought to block questions on sexual orientation from the census in order to erase LGBTQ people from official counts. This would, in turn, prevent the collection of crucial data that could help improve government programs and resources for LGBTQ people.

24 Refused to recognize LGBTQ people in National AIDS day Address: Despite being the community most affected by the epidemic, Vice President Pence has consistently refused to acknowledge LGBTQ people in his addresses on National AIDS day.

25 Proposed cutting over $1.35 billion from PEPFAR budget: In his proposed FY 2019 budget, Trump cut $1.35 billion from, or 29% of PEPFAR’s budget. PEPFAR is the U.S. government program that fights AIDS abroad.

This list isn't even everything, just the 'highlights' (or should that be lowlights).

So I want to ask you, how exactly is Trump pro gay, again?
How exactly should we 'celebrate' these moves?

Trump is pandering to a rather nasty group of right wing extremist evangelicals, represented in his administration by the vile Mike Pence, one of the worst state governors that ever was and in my opinion an imbecile who thinks bible > science.

But he said he was the LGBTQ community's best friend, like, a whole bunch of times though.

So yeah.

There goes your argument.

[Aclion]

That's factually wrong. The first president to support gay marriage and celebrate pride month was Obama in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And just like with LGBT rights under Trump, the gay marriage part came from not himself, but from the California Supreme Court (although Obama really did make Pride Month official, so that part was truly him).

No. The first president to support gay marriage was Jimmy Carter. but like Obama he ran opposing and changed his position afterwards, making him the first president to support gay marriage while in office(Carter left office before coming out in support), while Trump was the first person to be elected president on support for gay marriage. This is significant because it's the first time a president has risked their election on supporting gay marriage, and especially so since as a republican Trump is less able to absorb the loss of the religious lobby. In order to do what he did he had to refute the dichotomy between being moral and being gay.

[Tombradyonia]

That's factually wrong. The first president to support gay marriage and celebrate pride month was Obama in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And just like with LGBT rights under Trump, the gay marriage part came from not himself, but from the California Supreme Court (although Obama really did make Pride Month official, so that part was truly him).

No. The first president to support gay marriage was Jimmy Carter. but like Obama he ran opposing and changed his position afterwards, making him the first president to support gay marriage while in office(Carter left office before coming out in support), while Trump was the first person to be elected president on support for gay marriage. This is significant because it's the first time a president has risked their election on supporting gay marriage, and especially so since as a republican Trump is less able to absorb the loss of the religious lobby. In order to do what he did he had to refute the dichotomy between being moral and being gay.

So why then does Trump's administration keep doing their damndest to attack gay people and the protections that are (or rather, were) in place?
Maybe because Trump's public statements from 2016 were his usual lies? Why does he let the vile Mike Pence destroy all protections and programs for gay people one by one?

[Neutraligon]

That's factually wrong. The first president to support gay marriage and celebrate pride month was Obama in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And just like with LGBT rights under Trump, the gay marriage part came from not himself, but from the California Supreme Court (although Obama really did make Pride Month official, so that part was truly him).

No. The first president to support gay marriage was Jimmy Carter. but like Obama he ran opposing and changed his position afterwards, making him the first president to support gay marriage while in office(Carter left office before coming out in support), while Trump was the first person to be elected president on support for gay marriage. This is significant because it's the first time a president has risked their election on supporting gay marriage, and especially so since as a republican Trump is less able to absorb the loss of the religious lobby. In order to do what he did he had to refute the dichotomy between being moral and being gay.

No, Trump being permissive on gay marriage does not mean he ran on it.
Oh and there is this as well https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... -marriage/ Trump has a history of not supporting gay marriage.

[Tombradyonia]

No. The first president to support gay marriage was Jimmy Carter. but like Obama he ran opposing and changed his position afterwards, making him the first president to support gay marriage while in office(Carter left office before coming out in support), while Trump was the first person to be elected president on support for gay marriage. This is significant because it's the first time a president has risked their election on supporting gay marriage, and especially so since as a republican Trump is less able to absorb the loss of the religious lobby. In order to do what he did he had to refute the dichotomy between being moral and being gay.

No, Trump being permissive on gay marriage does not mean he ran on it.
Oh and there is this as well https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... -marriage/ Trump has a history of not supporting gay marriage.

So Trump supports "traditional marriage"... which in true Republican fashion seems to include serial adultery, multiple divorces and so on (Newt Gingrich and Kim Davis probably approve).

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

That's factually wrong. The first president to support gay marriage and celebrate pride month was Obama in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And just like with LGBT rights under Trump, the gay marriage part came from not himself, but from the California Supreme Court (although Obama really did make Pride Month official, so that part was truly him).

No. The first president to support gay marriage was Jimmy Carter. but like Obama he ran opposing and changed his position afterwards, making him the first president to support gay marriage while in office(Carter left office before coming out in support), while Trump was the first person to be elected president on support for gay marriage. This is significant because it's the first time a president has risked their election on supporting gay marriage, and especially so since as a republican Trump is less able to absorb the loss of the religious lobby. In order to do what he did he had to refute the dichotomy between being moral and being gay.

As NS Batman has already pointed out, no he does not.

To quote Trump himself "I think the institution of marriage should be between a man and a woman." That means not only are you wrong that he supports gay marriage, but also means that (even though it's not true) he partakes in the very "changed his position afterwards" that would disqualify him from being "elected supporting gay marriage."

Also can you try and back the claim that Obama "changed his mind on same-sex marriage when he got into office?"

[Aclion]

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:
This list isn't even everything, just the 'highlights' (or should that be lowlights).

So I want to ask you, how exactly is Trump pro gay, again?
How exactly should we 'celebrate' these moves?

You should be a bit more cricially minded when listening to lobbyist. I'm no going to pick apart all of that but i'll leave you with one.

19 Refused visas to partners of diplomats: The State Department began refusing visas for same-sex partners of some diplomats and U.N. workers if they are not married.

This is the same as it works for straight couples. The visa are so people can bring their families with them, for partners that means spouse.

Also can you try and back the claim that Obama "changed his mind on same-sex marriage when he got into office?"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... woman.html

[The Black Forrest]

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:
This list isn't even everything, just the 'highlights' (or should that be lowlights).

So I want to ask you, how exactly is Trump pro gay, again?
How exactly should we 'celebrate' these moves?

You should be a bit more cricially minded when listening to lobbyist. I'm no going to pick apart all of that but i'll leave you with one.

19 Refused visas to partners of diplomats: The State Department began refusing visas for same-sex partners of some diplomats and U.N. workers if they are not married.

This is the same as it works for straight couples. The visa are so people can bring their families with them, for partners that means spouse.

Questions:

1) Is what the lobbyist said wrong?
2) How many visas were denied to the partners of hetro diplomats?

[Necroghastia]

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:
This list isn't even everything, just the 'highlights' (or should that be lowlights).

So I want to ask you, how exactly is Trump pro gay, again?
How exactly should we 'celebrate' these moves?

You should be a bit more cricially minded when listening to lobbyist. I'm no going to pick apart all of that but i'll leave you with one.

19 Refused visas to partners of diplomats: The State Department began refusing visas for same-sex partners of some diplomats and U.N. workers if they are not married.

This is the same as it works for straight couples. The visa are so people can bring their families with them, for partners that means spouse.

I get the funny feeling that you can't pick apart all of those because that's the only one where you could find something to so much as nitpick.

[Aclion]

Questions:

1) Is what the lobbyist said wrong?

2) How many visas were denied to the partners of hetro diplomats?

1) Like I said, i'm not going to pick apart every one. I see enough to see that what was posted is designed to deceive. And I demonstrated with one how the deception works.
2) I don't know, I don't expect hetro diplomats are even trying to bring their girlfriends over though, since they know that will be denied. Ultimatly it doesn't matter. The policy is non-discrimintory and trying to present is as such is lying.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:
This list isn't even everything, just the 'highlights' (or should that be lowlights).

So I want to ask you, how exactly is Trump pro gay, again?
How exactly should we 'celebrate' these moves?

You should be a bit more cricially minded when listening to lobbyist. I'm no going to pick apart all of that but i'll leave you with one.

19 Refused visas to partners of diplomats: The State Department began refusing visas for same-sex partners of some diplomats and U.N. workers if they are not married.

This is the same as it works for straight couples. The visa are so people can bring their families with them, for partners that means spouse.

What about everything else? If you can really debunk all this, then why not do it?

Also does being an advocate for gay and lesbian rights (along with being a legitimate attorney) make you a "lobbyist" who can't be trusted?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/3375059/Barack-Obama-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman.html

Ah yes, The Telegraph, the most accurate source of information on the Internet.

Aside from that though, that exact article contradicts your point by saying that Obama still opposed California attempting to strike down same-sex marriage.

[Necroghastia]

Questions:

1) Is what the lobbyist said wrong?

2) How many visas were denied to the partners of hetro diplomats?

1) Like I said, i'm not going to pick apart every one. I see enough to see that what was posted is designed to deceive. And I demonstrated with one how the deception works.

You demonstrated that you could nitpick one. One. Find some sort of factual error with even a few others, and then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on.

I see enough to know what you posted is designed to deceive, and buddy, it ain't working so well.

[The Black Forrest]

Questions:

1) Is what the lobbyist said wrong?

2) How many visas were denied to the partners of hetro diplomats?

1) Like I said, i'm not going to pick apart every one. I see enough to see that what was posted is designed to deceive. And I demonstrated with one how the deception works.
2) I don't know, I don't expect hetro diplomats are even trying to bring their girlfriends over though, since they know that will be denied. Ultimatly it doesn't matter. The policy is non-discrimintory and trying to present is as such is lying.

1) Well the way you used lobbyist came across as a general dismisal.
2) It kind of does. If hetro partners are denied then your statement is valid. If only homosexual partners are denied or greatly more denied then there is a problem and your statement is false.

[Aclion]

I get the funny feeling that you can't pick apart all of those because that's the only one where you could find something to so much as nitpick.

If you think I was able to fact check all 25 of your claims in 4 minutes then I am very flattered.

What about everything else? If you can really debunk all this, then why not do it?

Also does being an advocate for gay and lesbian rights make you a "lobbyist" who can't be trusted?

1. Because of the bullshit asymmetry principle. Doing so would take all day and I don't want to spend one of my 15 days off this year doing it, whic is why i'm going to be stopping here. I have a boat to paint and a map to draw. It took significantly less time to demonstrate that the list is deliberately distorting the fact so as to mislead. Misleading bullshit gets a few minutes from me tops.
2. Literally everyone whose trying to change people mind is a lobbyist. That's what lobbying is. And no, it doesn't mean you shouldn't trust them. You should be practicing critical thinking regardless, especially on claims you're going to repeat.

1) Like I said, i'm not going to pick apart every one. I see enough to see that what was posted is designed to deceive. And I demonstrated with one how the deception works.
2) I don't know, I don't expect hetro diplomats are even trying to bring their girlfriends over though, since they know that will be denied. Ultimatly it doesn't matter. The policy is non-discriminatory and trying to present is as such is lying.

1) Well the way you used lobbyist came across as a general dismissal.
2) It kind of does. If hetro partners are denied then your statement is valid. If only homosexual partners are denied or greatly more denied then there is a problem and your statement is false.

I know. "Lobbyist" is seen as a bad thing while "activist" a good thing, and which is used is generally an indication of whether the speaker agrees with their position. I however use it literally. A person who lobbies for something.

A category visas(the one you can get from being related to a diplomat) are for family members, that is blood relitives and spouse so yeah they would be. As I said, I don't expect many'd bother to ask.

[Necroghastia]

I get the funny feeling that you can't pick apart all of those because that's the only one where you could find something to so much as nitpick.

If you think I was able to fact check all 25 of your claims in 4 minutes then I am very flattered.

No one is forcing you on such a time limit.

What about everything else? If you can really debunk all this, then why not do it?

Also does being an advocate for gay and lesbian rights make you a "lobbyist" who can't be trusted?

1. Because of the bullshit asymmetry principle. Doing so would take all day and I don't want to spend one of my 15 days off this year doing it, whic is why i'm going to be stopping here. I have a boat to paint and a map to draw. It took significantly less time to demonstrate that the list is deliberately distorting the fact so as to mislead. Misleading bullshit gets a few minutes from me tops.

Typing it out does only take that long for you, I suppose.

2. Literally everyone whose trying to change people mind is a lobbyist. That's what lobbying is. And no, it doesn't mean you shouldn't trust them. You should be practicing critical thinking regardless, especially on claims you're going to repeat.

Which, as has been amply demonstrated, people are using enough critical thinking to toss your own claims right where they belong.

[Aclion]

If you think I was able to fact check all 25 of your claims in 4 minutes then I am very flattered.

No one is forcing you on such a time limit.

Which is why I didn't spend all day on it.

[Necroghastia]

No one is forcing you on such a time limit.

Which is why I didn't spend all day on it.

Could've probably spent as much time or less as you have with these substanceless excuse posts coming up with a few more, if the list is really as full of holes as you claim.

[The Black Forrest]

[
I know. "Lobbyist" is seen as a bad thing while "activist" a good thing, and which is used is generally an indication of whether the speaker agrees with their position. I however use it literally. A person who lobbies for something.

A category visas(the one you can get from being related to a diplomat) are for family members, that is blood relitives and spouse so yeah they would be. As I said, I don't expect many'd bother to ask.

Even if you swapped it for activist; it was an attempt of a general dismissal. All that matters if if what is being said if factual or false. This is why “Liberal Bias” is irrelevant.

Again; still doesn’t make the statement valid. If the percentage rate of denials is the same as compared to homosexual partners; then it’s a valid comment.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

I get the funny feeling that you can't pick apart all of those because that's the only one where you could find something to so much as nitpick.

If you think I was able to fact check all 25 of your claims in 4 minutes then I am very flattered.

What about everything else? If you can really debunk all this, then why not do it?

Also does being an advocate for gay and lesbian rights make you a "lobbyist" who can't be trusted?

1. Because of the bullshit asymmetry principle. Doing so would take all day and I don't want to spend one of my 15 days off this year doing it, whic is why i'm going to be stopping here. I have a boat to paint and a map to draw. It took significantly less time to demonstrate that the list is deliberately distorting the fact so as to mislead. Misleading bullshit gets a few minutes from me tops.
2. Literally everyone whose trying to change people mind is a lobbyist. That's what lobbying is. And no, it doesn't mean you shouldn't trust them. You should be practicing critical thinking regardless, especially on claims you're going to repeat.

Ok then. Let's see if I can verify/disprove the 25 claims made.

1 Opposition to the Equality Act: Despite support from almost every segment of the U.S. population and a majority of Republicans, President Trump opposed the Equality Act. In May, the House passed the Equality Act, voting to guarantee critical non-discrimination protections for LGBTQ people among other crucial rights.

True, "In August 2019, the White House issued a statement, 'The Trump Administration absolutely opposes discrimination of any kind and supports the equal treatment of all; however, the House-passed bill in its current form is filled with poison pills that threaten to undermine parental and conscience rights.' [59]"

2 Appointed anti-LGBTQ judges: Trump has appointed anti-LGBTQ judges with alarming anti-LGBTQ records to appointments at every level of the judicial system, including anti-equality Supreme Court Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and federal nominees Kacsmaryk, Mateer, Bounds, Vitter. Menashi and others.

Likely False. I cannot verify this claim, as Kavanaugh in his dissent to the relevant LGBT ruling he was in said that congress should handle it and that it should be outlined in a different statute. In addition, I couldn't substantiate the claim that Kavanaugh in particular had an "anti-LGBTQ record."

3 Supported employment discrimination against LGBTQ people: The Trump administration submitted amicus briefs to the U.S. Supreme Court supporting discrimination against LGBTQ people.

True, "The DOJ reversed its position on whether the Civil Rights Act's workplace protections covered LGBT individuals, and the DOJ argued in state and federal courts for a constitutional right for businesses to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.[548]"

4 Banned transgender service members from the military: Against the expert advice of military leadership, medical authorities, budget analysts, 70% of Americans and the armed forces of allied countries, Trump and Pence banned transgender people from serving in the military.

True, "Trump said he would not allow "transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military", citing disruptions and medical costs.[548]"

5 Rolled back Obama-era non-discrimination protections: Trump’s Department of Justice upended previous DOJ interpretations of the Civil Rights Act that protect transgender and non-binary workers from employment discrimination and ceased enforcing non-discrimination protections as well as taking a hostile stance to LGBTQ workers in court.

True. I won't list literally all of them out, but "The administration rolled back numerous LGBT protections, in particular those implemented during the Obama administration, covering issues such as health care, education, employment, housing, military, and criminal justice, as well as foster care and adoption.[546][547][548][549][550]"

6 Issued rule to license discrimination: Trump’s Department of Labor issued a regulation designed to allow federal contractors to claim a religious exemption to fire LGBTQ workers because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
Kicked people living with HIV out of the military because of their status: The Department of Defense instituted a “Deploy or Get Out” policy, which would remove military personnel living with HIV from service solely because of their status.

True. See 3 and 4. Also, "The administration exempted government contractors from following federal workplace discrimination rules, as long as they could cite religious reasons for doing so.[548]"

7 Created a hostile work environment for LGBTQ federal employees: According to Politico: “[The Trump administration] fostered a climate where six staffers who are LGBT described removing their wedding rings before coming to work in the morning, taking down photos of their partners and families or ultimately finding new jobs further away from certain political appointees. They did not want to be identified; two said they feared being reassigned for being gay.”

Hard to determine, especially given that you can't blame everything on Trump. Although he did roll back LGBT protections, actual discrimination would still be something the employer would be doing. They might not have created it, but they did help perpetuate it.

8 Undermined Section 1557 Rule: HHS published a proposed major change to the administrative rule interpreting Section 1557 of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) to remove explicit protections for LGBTQ people in healthcare programs and activities by excluding LGBTQ people from protections from discrimination based on sex stereotyping and gender identity.

Likely false, especially given how Trump still wants the entire ACA repealed (even though the best he could do was a soft repeal). It would make no sense for him to only remove LGBT protections when he wants to remove all the protections.

9 Created a Religious Discrimination Division: HHS created a new office whose sole purpose would be to defend physicians and other medical professionals who decide to refuse care, including to LGBTQ patients.

False. "OCR enforces laws and regulations that protect the free exercise of religion and prohibit discrimination in HHS-funded or conducted programs and activities." (From the government's own website)

10 Guidance for Schools on Transgender Students: The Departments of Education and Justice eliminated Obama-era guidance clarifying that schools must treat transgender students consistent with their gender identity. This encourages schools officials to permit harassment of transgender students, deny access to facilities consistent with gender identity, and refuse to use correct names and pronouns -- all inflicting untold emotional harm.

True, "The administration rescinded a directive that public schools treat students according to their gender identity.[548]"

11 Rejected Complaints From Transgender Students: The Department of Education refused to respond to civil complaints filed by transgender students, including those who were barred from using bathrooms that correspond with their gender identity. This increases the burden for transgender students to combat these harmful policies.

Likely true, considering "DeVos marginalized an investigative unit within the Department of Education which under Obama investigated predatory activities by for-profit colleges."

12 Suggested it is acceptable for schools to discriminate against LGBTQ students while accepting tax-payer funds: Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos has refused to rule out federal funding for schools that discriminate against LGBTQ students and has declined to state she would otherwise intervene should discrimination occur.

False. Inaction=/= endorsement. Also declining to comment that she would explicitly intervene does not automatically mean she won't

13 Sexual Assault: DeVos rescinded Title IX rules related to schools’ obligations to address sexual harassment, including sexual violence. By eliminating the Obama-era rules, DeVos increased the standard of proof from “preponderance of the evidence” to “clear and convincing evidence” making it more difficult for survivors of sexual assault to obtain justice. LGBTQ people are disproportionately affected by sexual assault and harassment, and the stigma that many LGBTQ people face can make it more difficult for survivors to report.

True, "In 2017 DeVos said the Obama administration's guidance for how campuses address sexual assault "failed too many students" and she announced that she intended to replace the current approach "with a workable, effective and fair system".[306] Consequently, the administration scrapped an Obama administration guidance on how schools and universities should combat sexual harassment and sexual violence."

14 Eliminated language protecting LGBTQ children participating in the 4-H program: The Trump-Pence Administration ordered 4-H programs to remove a policy specifically welcoming LGBTQ children in the 4-H program, which led to the firing of an official who protested.

Bad wording. They only pressured the 4-H program. Does that mean they did it? Well... while some areas complied, others didn't. Plus the main source comes from a podcast and some small-town newspapers, so I'm unsure how to properly approach this one. I'll just say unknown and move on.

15 Used Title IX to discriminate against trans students: the Department of Education claimed that school policies allowing trans youth to participate in sports consistent with their gender identity violated federal law and threatened to withhold funds.

False. This is completely blown out of proportion. What actually happened was "Three female high school students in Connecticut had challenged a scholastic sports policy that allows transgender athletes to compete against them in track."

16 Allowed emergency shelters to deny access to transgender and gender nonconforming people: Despite the fact that LGBTQ people are significantly more likely to experience homelessness in their lives, HUD Secretary Ben Carson has proposed a rule to permit emergency shelters to deny access or otherwise discriminate against transgender and gender nonconforming peoplewho are homeless. HUD also canceled a scheduled survey on LGBTQ homelessness.

Partially true. It is untrue that HUD is doing anything to discriminate against the LGBT community in emergency shelters, however " "Rules were rescinded to give transgender homeless people equal access to homeless shelters..."

17 Placed transgender incarcerated persons in the wrong prison: The Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) rolled back an Obama-era policy that housed transgender prisoners consistent with their gender identity. With transgender people experiencing sexual assault at higher rates than average, this decision only puts them at further risk of assault.

True. "...and to house transgender prison inmates according to their gender identity 'when appropriate'.[548]"

18 Allowed foster care programs to discriminate while accepting tax-payer funds: Trump-Pence White House has proposed a federal regulation that would strip away nondiscrimination requirements and permit all Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) grant recipients, notably adoption and foster care agencies, to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and in many circumstances religious minorities and women, and still receive federal funding.

True, "The administration sought to rescind rules prohibiting adoption and foster care agencies funded by the government from discriminating against LGBT adoption and foster parents.[548][551]"

19 Refused visas to partners of diplomats: The State Department began refusing visas for same-sex partners of some diplomats and U.N. workers if they are not married.

False. It's not just for same-sex partners, but for all partners. "In December 2017, the administration announced that it would make it illegal for spouses of H-1B visa holders to work in the United States.[496]"

20 Changed rules to deny surrogate born children citizenship: The Trump Administration has interpreted immigration rules specifically so the child of a same-sex couple born abroad via surrogate would be considered "born out of wedlock" and making it more difficult to obtain U.S. citizenship.

False. Snopes has ruled this part to be completely false, because "The long-standing policy didn't originate with the Trump administration, nor were they the first to enforce it."

21 Trump’s HHS proposed a new definition that would narrowly define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by birth. According to the New York Times: “The new definition would essentially eradicate federal recognition of the estimated 1.4 million [transgender] Americans.” In addition, agency staff, including those at the Centers for Disease Control, have been instructed to stop using the word transgender in official reports.

False. There is no mention of this by the HHS and only the New York Times and a few other publications mention this at all. In addition, this wouldn't "eradicate federal recognition" because the HHS has a separate "gender identity" definition (i.e biologically male but identify female).

22 Eliminated information on LGBTQ rights, mentions, and representation on government websites: Within hours of Trump’s swearing-in, pages on LGBTQ rights and recognition were removed from government websites, including the White House.

The fact that I'm able to pull up LGBT rights pages from government websites show that this is very clearly false. Hell, here's one right here

23 Blocked questions regarding sexual orientation from consideration for the census: Trump and Pence have sought to block questions on sexual orientation from the census in order to erase LGBTQ people from official counts. This would, in turn, prevent the collection of crucial data that could help improve government programs and resources for LGBTQ people.

True, "HHS stopped collecting information on LGBT participants in its national survey of older adults,[554] and the Census Bureau removed "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" as proposed subjects for possible inclusion on the Decennial Census and/or American Community Survey.[554]"

24 Refused to recognize LGBTQ people in National AIDS day Address: Despite being the community most affected by the epidemic, Vice President Pence has consistently refused to acknowledge LGBTQ people in his addresses on National AIDS day.

Likely true, especially given Pence's views.

25 Proposed cutting over $1.35 billion from PEPFAR budget: In his proposed FY 2019 budget, Trump cut $1.35 billion from, or 29% of PEPFAR’s budget. PEPFAR is the U.S. government program that fights AIDS abroad.

False. The source that all websites cited which made this claim has no sources attached. There's no proof of this, although that could be that I wasn't looking hard enough.

Now that I have fact-checked this LGBT stuff, it's time to get right back to religion and Trump. Obligatory correlation =/= causation.

[Crockerland]

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:

1 Opposition to the Equality Act: Despite support from almost every segment of the U.S. population and a majority of Republicans, President Trump opposed the Equality Act. In May, the House passed the Equality Act, voting to guarantee critical non-discrimination protections for LGBTQ people among other crucial rights.

2 Appointed anti-LGBTQ judges: Trump has appointed anti-LGBTQ judges with alarming anti-LGBTQ records to appointments at every level of the judicial system, including anti-equality Supreme Court Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and federal nominees Kacsmaryk, Mateer, Bounds, Vitter. Menashi and others.

Neil Gorsuch has done more to advance equality for LGBT people than Alphonso David has ever done or will ever do.

The HRC's purpose is to get LGBT people to vote for Democratic candidates, so of course they're going to say whatever they can to undermine a Republican. It's a Democratic outreach group and in no way bipartisan or objective.

That's factually wrong. The first president to support gay marriage and celebrate pride month was Obama in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And just like with LGBT rights under Trump, the gay marriage part came from not himself, but from the California Supreme Court (although Obama really did make Pride Month official, so that part was truly him).

The first president to support gay marriage was Gerald Ford, hence why Aclion said "the first president to be elected on a platform supporting gay marriage" as no president prior to Trump was initially elected in favor of marriage equality, they all got elected and then changed their position afterwards. The only exception would be acting president Dick Cheney, but he wasn't elected to the office of president.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Trump supports gay rights? In what fantasy world? Excuse me, but I would like to enquire as to what flavor of koolaid have you been drinking?

Human Rights Campaign president Alphonso David listed the following attacks (this is not an exhaustive list) on gay and trans people by the Trump admin:

Neil Gorsuch has done more to advance equality for LGBT people than Alphonso David has ever done or will ever do.

The HRC's purpose is to get LGBT people to vote for Democratic candidates, so of course they're going to say whatever they can to undermine a Republican. It's a Democratic outreach group and in no way bipartisan or objective.

Probably why the fact-check for Trump's anti-LGBT policies found that 11 of the 25 claims against Trump were false.

no president prior to Trump was initially elected in favor of marriage equality, they all got elected and then changed their position afterwards. The only exception would be acting president Dick Cheney, but he wasn't elected to the office of president.

Yes, I get it, Obama wasn't the first. Also I'd like to see a source that quotes Trump explicitly being in favor of gay marriage, considering his policies and words (that people in this thread have quoted) all contradict this statement.

Also even if he was elected in favor, he's certainly changed his mind on it.