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On blaming religion for Trump

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Outer Acharet
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Founded: Jul 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:58 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Outer Acharet wrote:It's all good, I've done it myself more than once as well. But I think I've kind of gotten the thread off topic now, so that's my bad. To close this tangent, then, I will say this: No matter who you are or what you personally believe, it's chill, we're all on this website by our own choice, so let's just vibe while we're here.

oof u totally dont get the vibe of nsg lol
each and every one of us deeply and fundamentally loathes the others here; it's beautiful in a way


Yeah absolutely, this is about the one place where we can have a right-wing deadset conservative and a hardcore anarchist come together to vehemently disagree with some random chap over the details of obscure political philosophy.
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Rusozak
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Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rusozak » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:04 pm

I agree that Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem in America and not the cause (although he has fanned the flames). But I think the religion part is coincidental. It has more to do with anti-intellectualism. Isolated rural areas that don't trust the "educated elite" and feel a need to always push back when someone who isn't like them tells them something in contradiction to what they believe. Now that also tends to coincide with deeply religious communities, so maybe there is a connection there. But I don't think the deeply religious sided with Trump for religious reasons.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

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Cekoviu
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cekoviu » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:08 pm

Rusozak wrote:I agree that Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem in America and not the cause (although he has fanned the flames). But I think the religion part is coincidental. It has more to do with anti-intellectualism. Isolated rural areas that don't trust the "educated elite" and feel a need to always push back when someone who isn't like them tells them something in contradiction to what they believe. Now that also tends to coincide with deeply religious communities, so maybe there is a connection there. But I don't think the deeply religious sided with Trump for religious reasons.

thanks for explaining it so i dont have to lol
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Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
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Founded: Oct 27, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:10 pm

Rusozak wrote:I agree that Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem in America and not the cause (although he has fanned the flames). But I think the religion part is coincidental. It has more to do with anti-intellectualism. Isolated rural areas that don't trust the "educated elite" and feel a need to always push back when someone who isn't like them tells them something in contradiction to what they believe. Now that also tends to coincide with deeply religious communities, so maybe there is a connection there. But I don't think the deeply religious sided with Trump for religious reasons.

Basically this is what can be concluded from the conversing on this thread. Except for that random part about "religious communities."
Last edited by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire on Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Outer Acharet
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Founded: Jul 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:12 pm

Rusozak wrote:I agree that Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem in America and not the cause (although he has fanned the flames). But I think the religion part is coincidental. It has more to do with anti-intellectualism. Isolated rural areas that don't trust the "educated elite" and feel a need to always push back when someone who isn't like them tells them something in contradiction to what they believe. Now that also tends to coincide with deeply religious communities, so maybe there is a connection there. But I don't think the deeply religious sided with Trump for religious reasons.

IMO the connection is these areas haven't changed much. The people in rural regions don't live in a vibrant, constantly shifting urban community. The focal point of a rural community is often the church, too, and even in other societies a place of worship often brings people together where nothing else will.

And also obligatory correlation =/= causation.
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Centai Mal
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Founded: May 19, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Centai Mal » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:13 pm

I despise Islam wrote:ISLAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN THE UNITED STATES!

Look, I don't understand why muslims come to non-muslim countries. Their disease is normalised over there, so why come somewhere where no-one wants anything to do with your oppressive philosophy and regime.

Go brainwash kids back in your own countries!

Alright, I'll take the bait - how is Islam different from any other religion? Don't see you hating on Judaism or Sikhs over here
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Rusozak
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Rusozak » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:27 pm

Outer Acharet wrote:
Rusozak wrote:I agree that Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem in America and not the cause (although he has fanned the flames). But I think the religion part is coincidental. It has more to do with anti-intellectualism. Isolated rural areas that don't trust the "educated elite" and feel a need to always push back when someone who isn't like them tells them something in contradiction to what they believe. Now that also tends to coincide with deeply religious communities, so maybe there is a connection there. But I don't think the deeply religious sided with Trump for religious reasons.

IMO the connection is these areas haven't changed much. The people in rural regions don't live in a vibrant, constantly shifting urban community. The focal point of a rural community is often the church, too, and even in other societies a place of worship often brings people together where nothing else will.

And also obligatory correlation =/= causation.


Yeah, I'm not saying religion is related as a cause for Trump, but more of a parallel symptom. The same environment that fosters a deeply religious community also fosters the kind of beliefs that made Trump so popular, but the two aren't directly related.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

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Jedi Council
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Founded: Jan 01, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:31 pm

I despise Islam wrote:And plus, the most expensive building in the world, $26 million, guess what it is?

Masjid Al Haram and Abraj Al Bait in Mecca.
What a fucking waste of money and recourses and time.

If you want a thread about your dislike of Islam, go make one.

This is about the intersection between religion and Trump.
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Centai Mal
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Founded: May 19, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Centai Mal » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:35 pm

I despise Islam wrote:And plus, the most expensive building in the world, $26 million, guess what it is?

Masjid Al Haram and Abraj Al Bait in Mecca.
What a fucking waste of money and recourses and time.

It's almost like when people spend money to build those things, the money goes into the local economy.
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Outer Acharet
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Founded: Jul 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:37 pm

Rusozak wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying religion is related as a cause for Trump, but more of a parallel symptom. The same environment that fosters a deeply religious community also fosters the kind of beliefs that made Trump so popular, but the two aren't directly related.

I wouldn't even go that far. There are deeply religious communities across the US and its cultural groups (for example, as mentioned earlier in the thread, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference were important leaders of the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. I would trace it back to a historical division, there's been an animosity to the left-leaning party since Reconstruction after the Civil War in most Southern communities, especially rural ones. The South also embraces its more traditional interpretation of Protestantism as more of a part of its identity. And there's the poor education of poor rural individuals, which means that during the Red Scare they bought the whole "godless Communist oppressors" line, and then embraced their faith as part of being good Americans, and on and on, all culminating in these rural areas associating being religious with being Republican voters.

OP put the cart before the horse, in a way. A large portion of Trump's voters, especially the lesser educated ones, are religious because they view it as part of being conservative.

Centai Mal wrote:
I despise Islam wrote:And plus, the most expensive building in the world, $26 million, guess what it is?

Masjid Al Haram and Abraj Al Bait in Mecca.
What a fucking waste of money and recourses and time.

It's almost like when people spend money to build those things, the money goes into the local economy.

Also, Mecca's entire economy is based around the season when people take pilgrimages there. So it makes sense they put that money back into their biggest draw.
Last edited by Outer Acharet on Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kancia
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Founded: Dec 21, 2019
Corporate Police State

Postby Kancia » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:58 pm

I despise Islam wrote:And plus, the most expensive building in the world, $26 million, guess what it is?

Masjid Al Haram and Abraj Al Bait in Mecca.
What a fucking waste of money and recourses and time.

It’s funny since billions of dollars of revenue are made from hajj pilgrimages annually
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Centai Mal
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Founded: May 19, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Centai Mal » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:07 pm

Kancia wrote:
I despise Islam wrote:And plus, the most expensive building in the world, $26 million, guess what it is?

Masjid Al Haram and Abraj Al Bait in Mecca.
What a fucking waste of money and recourses and time.

It’s funny since billions of dollars of revenue are made from hajj pilgrimages annually

If you base your account around the hatred of a certain group, I’m guessing stuff like that is kind of above your paygrade
“Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.”

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Kancia
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Corporate Police State

Postby Kancia » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:11 pm

Centai Mal wrote:
Kancia wrote:It’s funny since billions of dollars of revenue are made from hajj pilgrimages annually

If you base your account around the hatred of a certain group, I’m guessing stuff like that is kind of above your paygrade
Yeah, that account was literally made today and all I see is them posting islamophobic bs all over the forum. This is supposed to be a place for civil discussion, not hatred
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Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:19 pm

Can we please get back to talking about if Trump's election had anything to do with religion?
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Salus Maior
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:12 pm

Centai Mal wrote:
I despise Islam wrote:ISLAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN THE UNITED STATES!

Look, I don't understand why muslims come to non-muslim countries. Their disease is normalised over there, so why come somewhere where no-one wants anything to do with your oppressive philosophy and regime.

Go brainwash kids back in your own countries!

Alright, I'll take the bait - how is Islam different from any other religion? Don't see you hating on Judaism or Sikhs over here


Why are you feeding trolls?
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Geneviev
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Geneviev » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:01 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Outer Acharet wrote:It's all good, I've done it myself more than once as well. But I think I've kind of gotten the thread off topic now, so that's my bad. To close this tangent, then, I will say this: No matter who you are or what you personally believe, it's chill, we're all on this website by our own choice, so let's just vibe while we're here.

oof u totally dont get the vibe of nsg lol
each and every one of us deeply and fundamentally loathes the others here; it's beautiful in a way

I think I did something wrong, I don't loathe anyone.

As for Trump and the actual thread topic, please don't blame Christians. I dislike him specifically because I am Christian.
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SatoSere
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Father Knows Best State

Postby SatoSere » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:04 pm

I despise Islam wrote:ISLAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN THE UNITED STATES!

Look, I don't understand why muslims come to non-muslim countries. Their disease is normalised over there, so why come somewhere where no-one wants anything to do with your oppressive philosophy and regime.

Go brainwash kids back in your own countries!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
you don't have anything to say except anti-Islam shit don't ya
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:14 pm

SatoSere wrote:
I despise Islam wrote:ISLAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN THE UNITED STATES!

Look, I don't understand why muslims come to non-muslim countries. Their disease is normalised over there, so why come somewhere where no-one wants anything to do with your oppressive philosophy and regime.

Go brainwash kids back in your own countries!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
you don't have anything to say except anti-Islam shit don't ya

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Apela
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Apela » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 pm

Getting back to the topic, the Evangelical South has been a stronghold for Republicans for a while, but there was much more factors in place during the election of Donald Trump. I personally believe Trump isn't as bad as people describe him, he is just a business man who capitalized on divisions in this country and appealing the older, white, middle class and has been keep the base he was elected because of. He isn't a good president, but isn't the next Hitler.

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Crockerland
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Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:37 pm

Centai Mal wrote:
Aclion wrote:Consider this postion "You have the freedom to marry who you want, but if you marry someone I disapprove of you should be imprisoned. The freedom to marry isn't a freedom from consequences"
I think you'll agree that that completely undermines any meaningful right to marriage. The whole point of a freedom, after all, is that the government cannot punish you for exercising it. If a freedom does not include so called "freedom from consequences" it is no freedom at all.

EDIT: on topic; You got it completely wrong, the evangelical wing is the wing that Trump has had the most trouble with, beside the bush era neocons. There's a reason Mitt Romney: last hurrah of american evangelicalism, was the only republican to vote to impeach him. Trump broke away from the evangelical wing by his support for LGBT rights.

What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump's Supreme Court justice wrote the opinion that finally recognized our right not to be discriminated against based on our sexual orientation or gender identity, something the Democrats couldn't do with 26 years of debate on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act/Equality Act in Congress.
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Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
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Posts: 291
Founded: Oct 27, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:48 pm

Crockerland wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump's Supreme Court justice wrote the opinion that finally recognized our right not to be discriminated against based on our sexual orientation or gender identity, something the Democrats couldn't do with 26 years of debate on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act/Equality Act in Congress.

Probably because the Republicans, who controlled congress for a lot of that time, wouldn't let them.

And no, I'm not a "liberal," both parties are too centrist for my tastes.
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Jedi Council
Minister
 
Posts: 2692
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Anarchy

Postby Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:14 pm

Apela wrote:Getting back to the topic, the Evangelical South has been a stronghold for Republicans for a while, but there was much more factors in place during the election of Donald Trump. I personally believe Trump isn't as bad as people describe him, he is just a business man who capitalized on divisions in this country and appealing the older, white, middle class and has been keep the base he was elected because of. He isn't a good president, but isn't the next Hitler.

Well if the only options are a good president or the new Hitler, that doesnt really give much room for nuance now does it? Viewed through such a limited prism, it's easy to say he is "not that bad."

Please do try and tell that to the peaceful protestors he has gassed for a photo op, the Kurds in Iraq and Syria that he betrayed, the legion of women who accuse him of sexual harrassment or abuse, alongside the multitude of other people he has offended, hurt, or damaged in some way shape or form. A good start might be to the family members of the ~160,000 Americans who have died because of Covid-19 on his watch.

Crockerland wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump's Supreme Court justice wrote the opinion that finally recognized our right not to be discriminated against based on our sexual orientation or gender identity, something the Democrats couldn't do with 26 years of debate on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act/Equality Act in Congress.


I will point out that that decision was widely panned by the right, and that it would have been just as likely to have been decided in the same manner if a Democrat had chosen Scalias successor.

Saying Trump is pro-LGBTQ because of that ruling is ludicrous.
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Centai Mal
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 435
Founded: May 19, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Centai Mal » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:29 pm

Crockerland wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump's Supreme Court justice wrote the opinion that finally recognized our right not to be discriminated against based on our sexual orientation or gender identity, something the Democrats couldn't do with 26 years of debate on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act/Equality Act in Congress.

And what about banning trans people from the military? Or denying healthcare protections to trans people? Or making sure it's legal to deny adoption to queer people?

But no, let's point at his SC Justice not being a complete contextualist, and breaking away from Trump's wants, and decide they represent Trump better than all the hatred he spews
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The Alma Mater
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:32 pm

SatoSere wrote:
I despise Islam wrote:ISLAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN THE UNITED STATES!

Look, I don't understand why muslims come to non-muslim countries. Their disease is normalised over there, so why come somewhere where no-one wants anything to do with your oppressive philosophy and regime.

Go brainwash kids back in your own countries!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
you don't have anything to say except anti-Islam shit don't ya

The name kinda hints that.
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Nevertopia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 701
Founded: May 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nevertopia » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:59 pm

Kowani wrote:
SatoSere wrote: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
you don't have anything to say except anti-Islam shit don't ya

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