Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:If faith alone is enough, then Hitler slipped through the pearly gates of heaven, considering he was a protestant.
....Hitler wasn't a Protestant. He wasn't even a Christian.
Advertisement
by Salus Maior » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:45 pm
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:If faith alone is enough, then Hitler slipped through the pearly gates of heaven, considering he was a protestant.
by Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:48 pm
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:If faith alone is enough, then Hitler slipped through the pearly gates of heaven, considering he was a protestant.
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:50 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Jedi Council wrote:Again, that's not a justification.
"Oh I'm just too damn busy to not be hypocritical today, let's vote for the guy who is entirely contrary to my beliefs."
That is not an excuse. I am a busy person too, but I am not going to support someone antithetical to my values because of it, even on the off chance they might do something I like.
Alright, so who would you choose if there were only two candidates and both were shit (which is typical imo), but one of them alludes to wanting to do something for policies you care about.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Punainen Suomi » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:52 pm
Jedi Council wrote:Ammostan wrote:
You seem to think that Christians have to somehow earn their salvation. This is wrong. If we could get saved by works, how MUCH work would be necessary? If we could be saved by works, then Christ's blood was meaningless.
If faith alone is enough, then there are some seriously dubious people who get in.
by Salus Maior » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:53 pm
Jedi Council wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Alright, so who would you choose if there were only two candidates and both were shit (which is typical imo), but one of them alludes to wanting to do something for policies you care about.
Well, frankly, it's a question of morals vs policy. I do not believe I could vote for someone who I found morally repugnant, even if I agreed with their policies.
What would I do?
Write in a candidate, search for a third party, start advocating for electoral reform, volunteer with a group who lobbies for issues I care about, rather than a political party.
I would certainly do more than sit on my ass saying "Oh well" or vote for someone who I think is an awful human being. Especially if, as you say, said person merely alludes to be aligned with my policy preferences.
by Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:54 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Jedi Council wrote:
Well, frankly, it's a question of morals vs policy. I do not believe I could vote for someone who I found morally repugnant, even if I agreed with their policies.
What would I do?
Write in a candidate, search for a third party, start advocating for electoral reform, volunteer with a group who lobbies for issues I care about, rather than a political party.
I would certainly do more than sit on my ass saying "Oh well" or vote for someone who I think is an awful human being. Especially if, as you say, said person merely alludes to be aligned with my policy preferences.
Alright, so what are you doing for this upcoming election?
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Ammostan » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:56 pm
Punainen Suomi wrote:Jedi Council wrote:
If faith alone is enough, then there are some seriously dubious people who get in.
Not to mention that if works are meaningless, selfishness is encouraged, as one doesn't need to do anything good if they are assured of their place in heaven. It strikes me as an excellent way to justify bad behaviour.
by Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:57 pm
Punainen Suomi wrote:Jedi Council wrote:
If faith alone is enough, then there are some seriously dubious people who get in.
Not to mention that if works are meaningless, selfishness is encouraged, as one doesn't need to do anything good if they are assured of their place in heaven. It strikes me as an excellent way to justify bad behaviour.
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:58 pm
Outer Acharet wrote:Punainen Suomi wrote:Not to mention that if works are meaningless, selfishness is encouraged, as one doesn't need to do anything good if they are assured of their place in heaven. It strikes me as an excellent way to justify bad behaviour.
Works are meaningless in Christian theology because you could never do enough. The standard one is held to without salvation is no less than perfection, and no human is perfect. Part of salvation is a belief and acceptance of one's own sin. I can say "Oh lawd, I's a sinner", then go out and hit it up at a strip club, not having meant any of what I said, and guess what? I'm no better off in the eyes of God.
It doesn't excuse my bad behavior because I must repent of my sins earnestly for them to be forgiven.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Punainen Suomi » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:58 pm
Ammostan wrote:Punainen Suomi wrote:Not to mention that if works are meaningless, selfishness is encouraged, as one doesn't need to do anything good if they are assured of their place in heaven. It strikes me as an excellent way to justify bad behaviour.
No, the whole point is there is nothing that we humans can do to ever be worthy of a place before the throne. That is why Christ died. He paid the price as a living sacrifice for our transgressions.
Outer Acharet wrote:Punainen Suomi wrote:Not to mention that if works are meaningless, selfishness is encouraged, as one doesn't need to do anything good if they are assured of their place in heaven. It strikes me as an excellent way to justify bad behaviour.
Works are meaningless in Christian theology because you could never do enough. The standard one is held to without salvation is no less than perfection, and no human is perfect. Part of salvation is a belief and acceptance of one's own sin. I can say "Oh lawd, I's a sinner", then go out and hit it up at a strip club, not having meant any of what I said, and guess what? I'm no better off in the eyes of God.
It doesn't excuse my bad behavior because I must repent of my sins earnestly for them to be forgiven.
by Tokora » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:59 pm
by Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:00 pm
Punainen Suomi wrote:Ammostan wrote:
No, the whole point is there is nothing that we humans can do to ever be worthy of a place before the throne. That is why Christ died. He paid the price as a living sacrifice for our transgressions.Outer Acharet wrote:
Works are meaningless in Christian theology because you could never do enough. The standard one is held to without salvation is no less than perfection, and no human is perfect. Part of salvation is a belief and acceptance of one's own sin. I can say "Oh lawd, I's a sinner", then go out and hit it up at a strip club, not having meant any of what I said, and guess what? I'm no better off in the eyes of God.
It doesn't excuse my bad behavior because I must repent of my sins earnestly for them to be forgiven.
Then what are the requirements for being granted entry into heaven? You say that you must 'repent' of your sins, what does this repentance consist of? How does it match up to the weight of the sin?
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Punainen Suomi » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:03 pm
Jedi Council wrote:Punainen Suomi wrote:
Then what are the requirements for being granted entry into heaven? You say that you must 'repent' of your sins, what does this repentance consist of? How does it match up to the weight of the sin?
Careful now, I sense looming by the Mods if we continue this particular line of debate in this thread.
by Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:16 pm
Punainen Suomi wrote:Ammostan wrote:
No, the whole point is there is nothing that we humans can do to ever be worthy of a place before the throne. That is why Christ died. He paid the price as a living sacrifice for our transgressions.Outer Acharet wrote:
Works are meaningless in Christian theology because you could never do enough. The standard one is held to without salvation is no less than perfection, and no human is perfect. Part of salvation is a belief and acceptance of one's own sin. I can say "Oh lawd, I's a sinner", then go out and hit it up at a strip club, not having meant any of what I said, and guess what? I'm no better off in the eyes of God.
It doesn't excuse my bad behavior because I must repent of my sins earnestly for them to be forgiven.
Then what are the requirements for being granted entry into heaven? You say that you must 'repent' of your sins, what does this repentance consist of? How does it match up to the weight of the sin?
Jedi Council wrote: now, I sense looming by the Mods if we continue this particular line of debate in this thread.
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:19 pm
Outer Acharet wrote:There's a difference between believing in God and believing that one has sinned in the eyes of God and thus resolving to lessen their sin. If you acknowledge that you've done wrong after learning you have, you're forgiven for that wrongdoing.
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:If faith alone is enough, then Hitler slipped through the pearly gates of heaven, considering he was a protestant.
I'd imagine the whole "creating a cult of personality glorifying himself" and "sanctioning the mass-murder of people in clear disregard of the whole 'love thy neighbor' thing" prove that he didn't really believe that sort of stuff was a sin.
To look at it from the standpoint of Christian theology, the Devil believes God exists, is he saved?
by Cekoviu » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:19 pm
by Cekoviu » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:21 pm
Jedi Council wrote:Ammostan wrote:
You seem to think that Christians have to somehow earn their salvation. This is wrong. If we could get saved by works, how MUCH work would be necessary? If we could be saved by works, then Christ's blood was meaningless.
If faith alone is enough, then there are some seriously dubious people who get in.
by Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:25 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Jedi Council wrote:
If faith alone is enough, then there are some seriously dubious people who get in.
no... you don't earn your salvation. it doesn't matter whether by faith or works (which ammostan is wrong about). it really amazes me how little anti-theists know about the diversity of christian theology and yet how smug they nonetheless manage to be.
the point is, read up on universal reconciliation.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:31 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Jedi Council wrote:
If faith alone is enough, then there are some seriously dubious people who get in.
no... you don't earn your salvation. it doesn't matter whether by faith or works (which ammostan is wrong about). it really amazes me how little anti-theists know about the diversity of christian theology and yet how smug they nonetheless manage to be.
the point is, read up on universal reconciliation.
by Cekoviu » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:35 pm
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Cekoviu wrote:no... you don't earn your salvation. it doesn't matter whether by faith or works (which ammostan is wrong about). it really amazes me how little anti-theists know about the diversity of christian theology and yet how smug they nonetheless manage to be.
the point is, read up on universal reconciliation.
Bold of you to assume that Jedi Council is an anti-theist.
Also bold of you to make a group statement like that.
by Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:39 pm
Cekoviu wrote:it really amazes me how little anti-theists know about the diversity of christian theology and yet how smug they nonetheless manage to be.
the point is, read up on universal reconciliation.
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Cekoviu » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:41 pm
Outer Acharet wrote:Cekoviu wrote:it really amazes me how little anti-theists know about the diversity of christian theology and yet how smug they nonetheless manage to be.
the point is, read up on universal reconciliation.
If my history is correct and current, a large part of the anti-theist movement was inspired by the Christian right of the 1980s and by the concerns they had about it, largely political ones. Their opposition to religion came about by seeing a lot of the worst parts of that community when it was given an opportunity to talk on the national stage. When it did, it presented itself as a monolith, leading many to see it as such. And when places like Westboro Baptist Church are part of that group, which presents itself as a monolith, everyone is colored by it.
Not to mention a majority of popular media in America, which if you don't care to read up on the primary sources for these things, often portrays religions as a monolithic thing- not just Christianity. An American would likely confuse Zen Buddhism as being the entirety of Buddhist thought, when there's also Mahayana Buddhism (which influenced it), Theravada Buddhism (which is entirely divorced from it, I believe), and more, with Zen being a minority.
by Jedi Council » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:47 pm
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Cekoviu wrote:no... you don't earn your salvation. it doesn't matter whether by faith or works (which ammostan is wrong about). it really amazes me how little anti-theists know about the diversity of christian theology and yet how smug they nonetheless manage to be.
the point is, read up on universal reconciliation.
Bold of you to assume that Jedi Council is an anti-theist.
Also bold of you to make a group statement like that.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Outer Acharet » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:47 pm
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Cekoviu » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:50 pm
Outer Acharet wrote:It's all good, I've done it myself more than once as well. But I think I've kind of gotten the thread off topic now, so that's my bad. To close this tangent, then, I will say this: No matter who you are or what you personally believe, it's chill, we're all on this website by our own choice, so let's just vibe while we're here.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Ancientania, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Cerespasia, Dogmeat, East Leaf Republic, Emotional Support Crocodile, Hidrandia, Neo-Hermitius, Plan Neonie, Stratonesia, The Notorious Mad Jack, Tungstan, Yasuragi
Advertisement