On blaming religion for Trump

[Nevertopia]

They believe in freedom from consequences of their actions.
Neither freedom of speech, nor freedom of doing business has ever meant freedom from consequences if one behaves a certain way.

Consider this postion "You have the freedom to marry who you want, but if you marry someone I disapprove of you should be imprisoned. The freedom to marry isn't a freedom from consequences"
I think you'll agree that that completely undermines any meaningful right to marriage. The whole point of a freedom, after all, is that the government cannot punish you for exercising it. If a freedom does not include so called "freedom from consequences" it is no freedom at all.

Except you forget to take into account the scope of the law which protects marriages the same way minority groups are protected from malicious business practices. It isnt a simple case of "My Rights over Yours", there are nuances that prevents abuse and upholds the common good.

[Ankras]

back on topic, I think this whole tangent with Ammostan is indicative of the real problem outlined by the first post. Civil Liberties are being used as an excuse to carry out discrimination.

The tangent was not totally unrelated however. As we have seen in this thread Christians are called bigots and other forms of nastiness, which leads to the natural result of us voting for the guy who isn't telling us we're a basket of deplorables.

As a person living in one of those two dark green states I can tell you you're speaking a load of nonsense. I have pointed out several time that Democrats here in Alabama have been willing to bend over backwards to sate Christian fundamentalists when it fits their fancy.

[Ammostan]

The tangent was not totally unrelated however. As we have seen in this thread Christians are called bigots and other forms of nastiness, which leads to the natural result of us voting for the guy who isn't telling us we're a basket of deplorables.

I'd like to point out that nobody in this thread has attacked Christians.

...Really?

bad decisions in general tend to rely heavily on religious justifications specifically because religion is one of the few areas in life where we act like it's okay to not make any sense.

Bad decisions in generally are usually justified because someone is religious? Are you KIDDING ME? What, so does that mean the majority of burglaries and drive by shootings are given religious justification?

[Centai Mal]

They believe in freedom from consequences of their actions.
Neither freedom of speech, nor freedom of doing business has ever meant freedom from consequences if one behaves a certain way.

Consider this postion "You have the freedom to marry who you want, but if you marry someone I disapprove of you should be imprisoned. The freedom to marry isn't a freedom from consequences"
I think you'll agree that that completely undermines any meaningful right to marriage. The whole point of a freedom, after all, is that the government cannot punish you for exercising it. If a freedom does not include so called "freedom from consequences" it is no freedom at all.

EDIT: on topic; You got it completely wrong, the evangelical wing is the wing that Trump has had the most trouble with, beside the bush era neocons. There's a reason Mitt Romney: last hurrah of american evangelicalism, was the only republican to vote to impeach him. Trump broke away from the evangelical wing by his support for LGBT rights.

What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

[Centai Mal]

I'd like to point out that nobody in this thread has attacked Christians.

...Really?

bad decisions in general tend to rely heavily on religious justifications specifically because religion is one of the few areas in life where we act like it's okay to not make any sense.

Bad decisions in generally are usually justified because someone is religious? Are you KIDDING ME? What, so does that mean the majority of burglaries and drive by shootings are given religious justification?

So, where exactly were people bashing Christians specifically? Because we did point out the hypocrisy of people hiding their hatred behind religion, and I take offense to the idea that that’s all religious people are

[Centai Mal]

I'd like to point out that nobody in this thread has attacked Christians.

...Really?

bad decisions in general tend to rely heavily on religious justifications specifically because religion is one of the few areas in life where we act like it's okay to not make any sense.

Bad decisions in generally are usually justified because someone is religious? Are you KIDDING ME? What, so does that mean the majority of burglaries and drive by shootings are given religious justification?

So, where exactly were people bashing Christians specifically? Because we did point out the hypocrisy of people hiding their hatred behind religion, and I take offense to the idea that that’s all religious people are

[Ankras]

Consider this postion "You have the freedom to marry who you want, but if you marry someone I disapprove of you should be imprisoned. The freedom to marry isn't a freedom from consequences"
I think you'll agree that that completely undermines any meaningful right to marriage. The whole point of a freedom, after all, is that the government cannot punish you for exercising it. If a freedom does not include so called "freedom from consequences" it is no freedom at all.

EDIT: on topic; You got it completely wrong, the evangelical wing is the wing that Trump has had the most trouble with, beside the bush era neocons. There's a reason Mitt Romney: last hurrah of american evangelicalism, was the only republican to vote to impeach him. Trump broke away from the evangelical wing by his support for LGBT rights.

What support of LGBT rights? I’m arguably much worse off than I was before he was elected, to the point where I will be moving for my own safety if he gets re-elected

Trump has unleashed several middle fingers to trans people over the past few months.

[Ammostan]

...Really?



Bad decisions in generally are usually justified because someone is religious? Are you KIDDING ME? What, so does that mean the majority of burglaries and drive by shootings are given religious justification?

So, where exactly were people bashing Christians specifically? Because we did point out the hypocrisy of people hiding their hatred behind religion, and I take offense to the idea that that’s all religious people are

Did you miss the part about Christians being charlatans who want your collection money?

[Centai Mal]

So, where exactly were people bashing Christians specifically? Because we did point out the hypocrisy of people hiding their hatred behind religion, and I take offense to the idea that that’s all religious people are

Did you miss the part about Christians being charlatans who want your collection money?

Gonna need a quote for that, because I didn’t see it, but think that’s pretty accurate of the mega church pastors, like the asshat in Texas who wouldn’t open his church up during the hurricane despite having millions of dollars, or the pastors who have private fucking planes

[Centai Mal]

So, where exactly were people bashing Christians specifically? Because we did point out the hypocrisy of people hiding their hatred behind religion, and I take offense to the idea that that’s all religious people are

Did you miss the part about Christians being charlatans who want your collection money?

Gonna need a quote for that, because I didn’t see it, but think that’s pretty accurate of the mega church pastors, like the asshat in Texas who wouldn’t open his church up during the hurricane despite having millions of dollars, or the pastors who have private fucking planes

[Nevertopia]

Did you miss the part about Christians being charlatans who want your collection money?

Gonna need a quote for that, because I didn’t see it, but think that’s pretty accurate of the mega church pastors, like the asshat in Texas who wouldn’t open his church up during the hurricane despite having millions of dollars, or the pastors who have private fucking planes

I think what Ammostan is trying to say is he wants to move the goal post away from businesses needing to uphold discrimination laws to Christianity being an oppressed group.

[Necroghastia]

back on topic, I think this whole tangent with Ammostan is indicative of the real problem outlined by the first post. Civil Liberties are being used as an excuse to carry out discrimination.

The tangent was not totally unrelated however. As we have seen in this thread Christians are called bigots and other forms of nastiness,

Where?

which leads to the natural result of us voting for the guy who isn't telling us we're a basket of deplorables.

Despite him being a blatantly incompetent egomaniac who epitomizes the stereotypes you decry?

[Centai Mal]

Gonna need a quote for that, because I didn’t see it, but think that’s pretty accurate of the mega church pastors, like the asshat in Texas who wouldn’t open his church up during the hurricane despite having millions of dollars, or the pastors who have private fucking planes

I think what Ammostan is trying to say is he wants to move the goal post away from businesses needing to uphold discrimination laws to Christianity being an oppressed group.

Always love when that happens, like Christianity hasn’t historically bullied and even murdered Jews, Muslims, non-Abrahamic religions, and even specific sects of Christianity (like Catholicsm!), as well as being a founding belief of the KKK and a lot of race-based hate organizations

[Ankras]

Unless you're a Copt or an Assyrian I dont want to hear about how oppressed you are as a Christian. Especially as a Christian from Alabama.

[Centai Mal]

Unless you're a Copt or an Assyrian I dont want to hear about how oppressed you are as a Christian. Especially as a Christian from Alabama.

Catholics in the South also have to deal with shit like chick tracks and the old “you’re going to hell” sort of shit - I have some mates down there and I am not a fan of how Protestants down there, particularly the evangelical batch, treat them

[Ammostan]

What I would presume is that when religion sets a precedent for a lack of critical thinking; which it most definitely does by using an unproven afterlife to bribe people into accepting its unproven claims; it sets a precedent for charlatans in the real world to do the same with crazy promises about the real world. I'm not shocked devout Christians tend to be Trump supporters; I'm shocked there are Christians who are otherwise progressive.

Christians lack critical thinking.

I certainly would agree that one of the most dangerous things about faith based religions is that they do not encourage critical thinking, and they rely upon mystical nonsense to manipulate and indoctrinate people. There are clear similarities here to the ability of Trump supporters to wave away reality when it suits them.

More of the same, but now we also don't actually believe the things we claim. We are manipulators who just want your money in the collection plate.

What I think is the more convincing argument is that organized religion, especially evangelical Christianity, has now been proven, by way of that communities unwavering support for Trump, to be nothing more than a cabal of gullible hypocrites, led by a host of charlatans, and monstrously deluded Priests, Pastors, and Reverends who earn a living by deluding the masses.

More of the same.

Oh, yeah, there are definitely evangelical leaders who are either deluded or lying when it comes to Trump, but for a lot of those people being deluded or lying isn't really new.

Evangelicals are delusional liars.

Is it religion or is it the Evangelical base? Because they seem to not have any principals to stand on as long as Trump bans de gayz.

Evangelicals have no principles and hate gay people.



All that from THIS VERY THREAD, but I'm making things up? Honestly, I thought it was the left that got up in arms about telling people their "lived experience" is invalid as evidence.

Yeah, no one EVER bashes us.

I think what Ammostan is trying to say is he wants to move the goal post away from businesses needing to uphold discrimination laws to Christianity being an oppressed group.

My guy, somebody objected to the tangent. My first post was was about the Christian-bashing that comes from Blue Team.

[Jedi Council]

back on topic, I think this whole tangent with Ammostan is indicative of the real problem outlined by the first post. Civil Liberties are being used as an excuse to carry out discrimination.

The tangent was not totally unrelated however. As we have seen in this thread Christians are called bigots and other forms of nastiness, which leads to the natural result of us voting for the guy who isn't telling us we're a basket of deplorables.

Even if he is the living embodiment of everything your religion tells you to fight against?

[Outer Acharet]

Unless you're a Copt or an Assyrian I dont want to hear about how oppressed you are as a Christian. Especially as a Christian from Alabama.

Catholics in the South also have to deal with shit like chick tracks and the old “you’re going to hell” sort of shit - I have some mates down there and I am not a fan of how Protestants down there, particularly the evangelical batch, treat them

Man, what goes down in the deep south is wack. Half of the doctrine I hear of coming out of there is either prosperity gospel or so far from accepted Church doctrine I don't even want to imagine what sort of echo chamber they're in.

[The Black Forrest]

Unless you're a Copt or an Assyrian I dont want to hear about how oppressed you are as a Christian. Especially as a Christian from Alabama.

Alabama? I don't believe you. Your use of words and spelling suggest otherwise!



You are right. I have Christian relatives and they make it sound like they are being hunted today. Not even remotely compared to the Coptics, Assyrians, and even the Yazidis (well not Christian though they borrowed from it)....

[Nevertopia]

Christians lack critical thinking.



More of the same, but now we also don't actually believe the things we claim. We are manipulators who just want your money in the collection plate.



More of the same.



Evangelicals are delusional liars.



Evangelicals have no principles and hate gay people.



All that from THIS VERY THREAD, but I'm making things up? Honestly, I thought it was the left that got up in arms about telling people their "lived experience" is invalid as evidence.

Yeah, no one EVER bashes us.

I think what Ammostan is trying to say is he wants to move the goal post away from businesses needing to uphold discrimination laws to Christianity being an oppressed group.

My guy, somebody objected to the tangent. My first post was was about the Christian-bashing that comes from Blue Team.

Holding Christianity accountable for its actions isnt the same as oppression.

[The Black Forrest]

Yeah, no one EVER bashes us.



My guy, somebody objected to the tangent. My first post was was about the Christian-bashing that comes from Blue Team.

Holding Christianity accountable for its actions isnt the same as oppression.

Calling out hypocrisy is also not the same as oppression.

[Ankras]

Unless you're a Copt or an Assyrian I dont want to hear about how oppressed you are as a Christian. Especially as a Christian from Alabama.

Alabama? I don't believe you. Your use of words and spelling suggest otherwise!



You are right. I have Christian relatives and they make it sound like they are being hunted today. Not even remotely compared to the Coptics, Assyrians, and even the Yazidis (well not Christian though they borrowed from it)....

The issue with this guy's weird portrayal of why more religious states support Trump misses that left-wing parts of these states are just as religious. The Southern Christian Leadership Conference was and is heavily influenced by baptist preachers like the late MLK Jr.

After the suppression of the communist movement much of the torch of southern leftist leadership went to black baptist preachers.

[Ammostan]

My name isn't Christianity and I am not responsible for the actions of anyone else on this earth. Have evil people used the guise of Christianity to do evil things like the Inquisition? Sure, but were they acting in any way in accordance with Christian tenets? No.

[Jedi Council]

My name isn't Christianity and I am not responsible for the actions of anyone else on this earth. Have evil people used the guise of Christianity to do evil things like the Inquisition? Sure, but were they acting in any way in accordance with Christian tenets? No.

I think the Vatican would like a word on that.

[Xmara]

While I agree that the Christian Right made up the majority of Trump voters, I don’t like the implication OP made that religious people are incapable of critical thinking.

Unless you're a Copt or an Assyrian I dont want to hear about how oppressed you are as a Christian. Especially as a Christian from Alabama.

Alabama? I don't believe you. Your use of words and spelling suggest otherwise!



You are right. I have Christian relatives and they make it sound like they are being hunted today. Not even remotely compared to the Coptics, Assyrians, and even the Yazidis (well not Christian though they borrowed from it)....

Well, not here in the US at least. I mean I can definitely say I’ve never been discriminated against on the basis of belief.

Christians in China and the Middle East, on the other hand...