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Trump to Ban TikTok – and Tencent?

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Cisairse
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Postby Cisairse » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:09 am

New haven america wrote:
Picairn wrote:Wonder how this ban will overlap with the First Amendment, although I can't say I'll miss Tiktok.

If a piece of media is deemed to pose a legitimate threat to national security, it can be banned. Probably the most famous example of this is when Lincoln banned any media company (Newspapers, journals, etc...) from publishing any piece that showed the Confederacy in a positive light or else risk heavy fines or forced dissolution.

Yeah, this has been a major debate topic in the government for a while now, and the general consessous is... They're not really sure how constitutional this is either.

I'm fairly certain this falls squarely under the Constitutional authority granted to Congress via the Commerce Clause.

And, knowing Congress, I'd put money on them having passed some dumb law forty years ago granting such authority to the executive. I guess we'll see later today when Trump actually makes his announcement.
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Postby Galloism » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:09 am

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Postby Ifreann » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:12 am

Torisakia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It's also going to be hard to ban TikTok because, shockingly, the US Constitution doesn't give the President the power to just ban things he doesn't like.

I'm almost certain it has been done in the past. I didn't pass American Government with flying colors though, so I'll probably need to be corrected on that.

It's going to be hard to correct you when all you aren't being very clear what you're talking about. When do you think a President has ever just banned something, just on the basis of wanting it banned?
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Postby Federation of American States » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:12 am

Good I think tiktok is a bad influence on today's youth.
Even if that makes me a 23 year old boomer
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Torisakia
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Postby Torisakia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:14 am

Ifreann wrote:
Torisakia wrote:I'm almost certain it has been done in the past. I didn't pass American Government with flying colors though, so I'll probably need to be corrected on that.

It's going to be hard to correct you when all you aren't being very clear what you're talking about. When do you think a President has ever just banned something, just on the basis of wanting it banned?

I don't know. Not sure where I was going with that. I'm just stupid, that's all.

But given the state of the country over the past 233 years, it wouldn't surprise me if such a thing has happened before.
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:27 am

Ifreann wrote:
Torisakia wrote:Maybe so. But it would be pretty hard to ban Google around these parts.

It's also going to be hard to ban TikTok because, shockingly, the US Constitution doesn't give the President the power to just ban things he doesn't like.


But if certain big tech companies were to remove it from their app stores, those Congressional hearings might go a whole lot easier for them.
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:28 am

And nothing of value was lost.

Hope the new owner rewrites some code...
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Cisairse
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Postby Cisairse » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:30 am

Ifreann wrote:
Torisakia wrote:I'm almost certain it has been done in the past. I didn't pass American Government with flying colors though, so I'll probably need to be corrected on that.

It's going to be hard to correct you when all you aren't being very clear what you're talking about. When do you think a President has ever just banned something, just on the basis of wanting it banned?

Trump did it with ZTE and Huawei.
Last edited by Cisairse on Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Twicetagram and JYPE » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:37 am

ArenaC wrote:YES!
GenZ (which is a generation including myself) can finally use platforms where they don't create cringe 24/7!

None of it was funny. Glad it had a reason to fuck off.

Sir, Instagram isn’t any better.

Source: I’m a Gen-Z whose classmates have Instagram and Snapchat addictions.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:41 am

Like the covid response, too little and too late, tik-tok already has the data. The PRC can still order tiK-tok to turn over any data they have anywhere.

That new law has not been changed
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Postby Jabberwocky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:44 am

Hahahahaha! trump is such a big baby
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:49 am

Skyhooked wrote:Not that I exactly care about this new fancy Tik Tok, but ol' Trump thinks he can trump the First Ammendment, and that's can create a precendent, if I know a thing about American justice system. This can start a chain of events, that can go anywhere, from Trump being impeached to US actually becoming that police state, many fear.


Well as far as banking it, he cannot make it illegal to use it per se, but what he can do is place the company as a sanctioned company which would force US businesses to stop doing any businesses with it, force it to sell off all assets in the US, ban federal employees from using it while on duty and such.

All of which would probably be legal.

So technically it will not be banned, but it would still be a major blow to the company.

Hence why it looks like it is going to be forced to spin off from its PRC parent and be taken over by Microsoft.

As much as I have issues with US tech companies, it should be noted with proper US government oversight the US can use our big tech companies as tools to advance our interests, which this does.

Forcing the PRC to lose a major asset and a US company to gain it helps our global power.
Last edited by Novus America on Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:50 am

Cisairse wrote:
Atheris wrote:They're one of the largest companies in America. Yeah, it would be pretty hard.

We've broken up "the largest company in America" before. Twice! We can do it again.

Broken up =/= banned.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:51 am

Twicetagram and JYPE wrote:
ArenaC wrote:YES!
GenZ (which is a generation including myself) can finally use platforms where they don't create cringe 24/7!

None of it was funny. Glad it had a reason to fuck off.

Sir, Instagram isn’t any better.

Source: I’m a Gen-Z whose classmates have Instagram and Snapchat addictions.


Well because Instagram and Snapchat are banned in the PRC, although they do collect your data, they cannot be forced to give it to the PRC government and have no reason to do so.
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Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Postby The Black Forrest » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:02 am

Not a user of TikTok so banning doesn’t bother me. Having said that; not exactly the right move. China already has what it needs as they routinely steal intellectual property. I once attended a talk by a Chinese billionaire about AI. Several things said kind of bothered me. The US is lagging in many areas around AI. For example, they use facial recognition instead of employee badges. I suspect many US companies like my old employer talk about using AI when they are really playing with it just to say they are doing it. Anyway; two things which bugged me:

1) The billionaire described IP theft as nothing more then copying a painting by a master.
2) We should not fear job loss(tech related) as there will be many jobs in compassionate care.

Banning TikTok is not as simple as they describe it. I am already seeing notes how to get around the ban. In some cases, it’s as simple as a vpn client to an external server.

Trump is simply doing this because he probably can’t get any favors or stock from the company and more likely pissed TikTok users kept his audience from being as big as he thinks it should have been at that rally.

It’s nothing more then the typical flaccid response by the Trump government and it will not last. Money has a habit of winning here.....
Last edited by The Black Forrest on Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:03 am

Novus America wrote:Forcing the PRC to lose a major asset and a US company to gain it helps our global power.


It's like you sailed in there and seized it by force. :roll:

Actually what happened is the US imported something, which many posters in this thread declare to be worthless. Made in China, bought with US dollars. And you're so proud of that.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:04 am

Ifreann wrote:
Torisakia wrote:Maybe so. But it would be pretty hard to ban Google around these parts.

It's also going to be hard to ban TikTok because, shockingly, the US Constitution doesn't give the President the power to just ban things he doesn't like.


Well it gives Congress the right to control interstate and international commerce, and much of that power has been legally delegated to the executive, so although Trump cannot say “use TikTok and you go to jail” he can legally block its US operations. You could still use it (although it would be removed from US company app stores) just not do business with it and it would be forced to sell of its US assets.

And he can can executive branch workers from using it while on duty..
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:06 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Novus America wrote:Forcing the PRC to lose a major asset and a US company to gain it helps our global power.


It's like you sailed in there and seized it by force. :roll:

Actually what happened is the US imported something, which many posters in this thread declare to be worthless. Made in China, bought with US dollars. And you're so proud of that.


I never said I was proud of it, just that it is a smart move in the Cold War 2.0 game.
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Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:10 am

Novus America wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
It's like you sailed in there and seized it by force. :roll:

Actually what happened is the US imported something, which many posters in this thread declare to be worthless. Made in China, bought with US dollars. And you're so proud of that.


I never said I was proud of it, just that it is a smart move in the Cold War 2.0 game.


More than half the users are in China. It's named something else there (Douyin). Market price, which the US isn't getting a huge discount on, is based on twice the users TikTok will actually still have when owned by the US.

You imported something from China. And payed extra for it. Smart move?
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:15 am

I'm in favor, why wasn't this done earlier? I became aware of TikTok months ago and how absurd it really is.

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Region of Dwipantara
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Postby Region of Dwipantara » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:17 am

Reuters wrote:ByteDance was previously seeking to keep a minority stake in the U.S. business of TikTok, which the White House had rejected. Under the new proposed deal, ByteDance would exit completely and Microsoft Corp would take over TikTok in the United States, the sources said.

Some ByteDance investors that are based in the United States may be given the opportunity to take minority stakes in the business, the sources added. About 70% of ByteDance’s outside investors come from the United States.

The White House declined to comment on whether Trump would accept ByteDance’s concession. ByteDance in Beijing did not respond to a request for comment

Under ByteDance’s new proposal, Microsoft will be in charge of protecting all U.S. user data, the sources said. The plan allows for another U.S. company other than Microsoft to take over TikTok in the United States, the sources added.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN24X3SK

As already mentioned, TL;DR it seems like Trump will only allow Microsoft to acquire TikTok only if ByteDance agree to completely divest U.S. operations, a.k.a. ceding full control. Well, this is better than an outright ban, which may set a bad precedent. Especially since TikTok is a social media company that may drag the First Amendment to the fiasco, unlike say, Huawei, a primarily technology infrastructure company.

Is it enough, though? Who knows.
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Postby Atheris » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:19 am

Torisakia wrote:
Cisairse wrote:Not really.

I like DuckDuckGo better anyway, though I doubt the whole "full privacy" thing it advertises.

I hate the way DuckDuckGo looks. It's minimalist as heck and I hate it.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:19 am

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ironic that the Trump administration is so concerned about TikTok collecting personal data and information on Americans for the PRC yet most, if not all, major US tech companies and even the US government itself does the exact same thing. This is an utterly meaningless endeavor.

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Postby The Cazistan » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:21 am

Region of Dwipantara wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ironic that the Trump administration is so concerned about TikTok collecting personal data and information on Americans for the PRC yet most, if not all, major US tech companies and even the US government itself does the exact same thing. This is an utterly meaningless endeavor.

It's not from the perspective of the US as a state entity, though. Granted, the US government is composed of 20% people's voice, 40% corrupt establishment, and 40% deep state. However, data theft by a fully unnacountable, untouchable, and malicious state actor is a clear threat to US security, which is why I'm largely in favor of the ban. Or better yet, some form of "nationalization".

based
Tik Tok has been proven time and time again to be literal spyware
It's amazing it's taken this long

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