Trump to Ban TikTok – and Tencent?

[Vassenor]

Try posting things banned in the west (like say child porn) on facebook or twitter and see how long until the police come knocking down your door. How is this any different?
All social media are spying apps. Plain and simple. They get you to suicide your own privacy and hand them information.


You make that sound as if it were sinister. You do realize the CCP is just a political party like any other? Sure, it's the ONLY political party. But being a member does not mean you are a government employee any more than being a member of the republicans makes you a Trump employee.


And facebook and twitter and Google. Yes, google which tracks your location at all times and reads your messages to give you targeted adds and sells your personal data to such an egregious degree that the EU had to invent the GDPR to protect us.

*Sigh*

I can't believe this even needs to be said.

1. Classic CCP deflection tactic. So you agree that WeChat spies on behalf of the CCP. You're honestly comparing making fun of the CCP to child porn?

2. The CCP is just another political party that lIbErAtEs peaceful, anti-government protesters with tanks and guns and bullets, unlike the Republican and Democratic Parties. But I guess you're just going to resort to another classic CCP whataboutism about how America invades other countries and BlAcK LiVeS MaTtEr as if that makes it OK for China to commit the crimes that it does. The Chinese government, the Communist Party, and so-called "private companies" are inseparable in the PRC and deliberately so. While China isn't truly communist, it isn't truly capitalist either. WeChat is effectively state-owned and directly controlled by the organs of the state. WhatsApp, its U.S. equivalent, isn't. To claim otherwise requires more than a certain amount of mental gymnastics.

3. While you do have a valid point about online privacy and while I do have my (oftentimes scathing) criticisms of Facebook, Twitter, and Google, I'd rather be spied on by U.S.-based social media companies, to be honest. The U.S. government isn't going to arrest me for subversion, secession, terrorism, or foreign collusion for tweeting "FUCK DONALD TRUMP/THE DEMOCRATS/REPUBLICANS", or "LIBERATE THE CONFEDERACY, REVOLUTION OF OUR TIMES", or posting a Facebook video of myself burning the American flag or disrespecting the U.S. national anthem, or calling on the international community to sanction the United States, whether such "crimes" are committed on U.S. soil or outside the U.S. I'm not going to be arrested and disappeared for forwarding a politically sensitive video on WhatsApp about Donald Trump's numerous scandals and improprieties to a friend who happens to be a human rights activist on the other side of the world, as much of a dictator as Trump would like to be. The U.S. government, Facebook, Google, and Twitter are clearly the lesser of two evils.

Your position and the position of several other "progressive" leftists I've argued with on NS is that because Facebook, Google, Twitter, and Trump are "just as bad", that makes it OK for Tencent, WeChat, TikTok, and the CCP to not only spy on people, but covertly undermine the economic and national sovereignty of countries around the world. You're just parroting the same old, tired, CCP whataboutisms and talking points because you just don't seem to realize how easy you in the West have it compared to people living in HK, Mainland China, and other Third World dictatorships and hybrid states around the world.

Stop taking your freedoms for granted. It's fine if you want to discuss Trump's real reasons for banning TikTok and Tencent and criticize him for all sorts of things such as his epic Tulsa failjob, but the moment you start throwing Chinese dissidents like Gao Zhigang, as well as Hong Kongers like myself, under the bus to score points against Republicans and Donald Trump, you've lost me completely.

So if this is about data security, why isn't Facebook being banned?

[-Astoria-]

Your position and the position of several other "progressive" leftists I've argued with on NS is that because Facebook, Google, Twitter, and Trump are "just as bad", that makes it OK for Tencent, WeChat, TikTok, and the CCP to not only spy on people, but covertly undermine the economic and national sovereignty of countries around the world. You're just parroting the same old, tired, CCP whataboutisms and talking points because you just don't seem to realize how easy you in the West have it compared to people living in HK, Mainland China, and other Third World dictatorships and hybrid states around the world.

Calling one thing out does not necessarily mean ignoring, or sympathising with, other similarly objectionable things.

[Bear Stearns]

Try posting things banned in the west (like say child porn) on facebook or twitter and see how long until the police come knocking down your door.

lmao

American social media is incredibly lax when it comes to enforcing rules against child porn. It is easier to get banned for saying a COVID-related conspiracy than it is endorsing depraved acts with children.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Here's why WeChat should be banned everywhere:

China's WeChat proven to be spying on overseas users
One Chinese user jailed for sharing censored content to friend in US through messaging app

Try posting things banned in the west (like say child porn) on facebook or twitter and see how long until the police come knocking down your door. How is this any different?
All social media are spying apps. Plain and simple. They get you to suicide your own privacy and hand them information.

Not just WeChat, but its parent company Tencent:

Caught red-handed: Tencent's ties to CCP revealed
23% of Tencent employees reportedly members of CCP

You make that sound as if it were sinister. You do realize the CCP is just a political party like any other? Sure, it's the ONLY political party. But being a member does not mean you are a government employee any more than being a member of the republicans makes you a Trump employee.

If you have WeChat on any of your devices, uninstall it immediately for your own sake and for the sake of all those you care deeply about. Boycott WeChat and Tencent.

And facebook and twitter and Google. Yes, google which tracks your location at all times and reads your messages to give you targeted adds and sells your personal data to such an egregious degree that the EU had to invent the GDPR to protect us.

Child porn should be banned. How is that comparable to what the Chinese censor?

[Cevja]

It seems stupid that trump banned tiktok becuase it could help you during lock down its such a stupid idea that trump banned tiktok.

[Aureumterra]

It seems stupid that trump banned tiktok becuase it could help you during lock down its such a stupid idea that trump banned tiktok.

Tiktok can help you during lockdown?

[-Astoria-]

It seems stupid that trump banned tiktok becuase it could help you during lock down its such a stupid idea that trump banned tiktok.

Tiktok can help you during lockdown?

Think he was referring to some (occasionally helpful) skits & tips, etc.

Please don't quote me on this.

[Nejii]

It seems stupid that trump banned tiktok becuase it could help you during lock down its such a stupid idea that trump banned tiktok.

Tiktok can help you during lockdown?

To kill time you see.

[Aureumterra]

Tiktok can help you during lockdown?

To kill time you see.

If anyone thinks TikTok is "essential," I would guess they’re either addicted or so privileged that they don’t know what a real problem is

[Nejii]

To kill time you see.

If anyone thinks TikTok is "essential," I would guess they’re either addicted or so privileged that they don’t know what a real problem is

Both. Remember modern America can’t live without its SM. Literally.

[Loben III]

If anyone thinks TikTok is "essential," I would guess they’re either addicted or so privileged that they don’t know what a real problem is

Both. Remember modern America can’t live without its SM. Literally.

I can. Things were better then.

[Novus America]

Your position and the position of several other "progressive" leftists I've argued with on NS is that because Facebook, Google, Twitter, and Trump are "just as bad", that makes it OK for Tencent, WeChat, TikTok, and the CCP to not only spy on people, but covertly undermine the economic and national sovereignty of countries around the world. You're just parroting the same old, tired, CCP whataboutisms and talking points because you just don't seem to realize how easy you in the West have it compared to people living in HK, Mainland China, and other Third World dictatorships and hybrid states around the world.

Calling one thing out does not necessarily mean ignoring, or sympathising with, other similarly objectionable things.

But it is still false equivalency. Sure we need to improve our own internet privacy rules BUT only our companies will have to abide by said rules and it would be illegal for a PRC company to follow those rules, or a US company following those rules to operate in the PRC.

Thus we still must force the divestment of all PRC owned social media operating in the US even while improving our privacy laws.

This is not just about privacy either, it is about fairness (they do not allow our social media there, so why should we allow theirs) and national security.

[Novus America]

Try posting things banned in the west (like say child porn) on facebook or twitter and see how long until the police come knocking down your door. How is this any different?
All social media are spying apps. Plain and simple. They get you to suicide your own privacy and hand them information.


You make that sound as if it were sinister. You do realize the CCP is just a political party like any other? Sure, it's the ONLY political party. But being a member does not mean you are a government employee any more than being a member of the republicans makes you a Trump employee.


And facebook and twitter and Google. Yes, google which tracks your location at all times and reads your messages to give you targeted adds and sells your personal data to such an egregious degree that the EU had to invent the GDPR to protect us.

Yes but that gets in the way of the CHINA BAD.

How is the PRC not bad for us?
They are a brutal dictatorship looking to undermine our very form of government and undermine our economic, military and political power.

They are our biggest external threat, and we must take action.

And before “but whatabout” they already ban our social media so that does not work. They have no room to complain.

[Kowani]

Try posting things banned in the west (like say child porn) on facebook or twitter and see how long until the police come knocking down your door.

lmao

American social media is incredibly lax when it comes to enforcing rules against child porn. It is easier to get banned for saying a COVID-related conspiracy than it is endorsing depraved acts with children.

Based on my Instagram experiences, it's easier to get banned for saying anything against the company than it is for posting such things.

[West Leas Oros 2]

lmao

American social media is incredibly lax when it comes to enforcing rules against child porn. It is easier to get banned for saying a COVID-related conspiracy than it is endorsing depraved acts with children.

Based on my Instagram experiences, it's easier to get banned for saying anything against the company than it is for posting such things.

Instagram is the absolute fucking worst. 9/10 users I met were insufferable assholes and a fair bit of them openly incited violence and brazenly commit crimes and encouraged others to do the same. Not a finger was raised against them. I did meet this really nice fellow, though. He was a trans man from the UK, and a sensible fellow too. Still, Instagram is as close to hell as we mortals can achieve.

[Major-Tom]

I did a cursory google search, but what the fuck is Tencent?

[The Alma Mater]

I did a cursory google search, but what the fuck is Tencent?

A company that makes several popular programs like wechat - which is an app Chinese use for everything from talking to paying for groceries - as well has stock in a significant number of other companies. They for instance own part of Tesla,thr game Fortnite, Bluehole, epic games, Ubisoft, blizzard etc

[Glorious Hong Kong]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuPdF9GnIU

This video gives a brief rundown of just what kind of a beast WeChat is and the kind of privacy and security threat it poses, not just to American citizens, but even more so to Chinese WeChat users, especially if they are political dissidents. I uninstalled WeChat a few years ago as soon as I realized just how dangerous it is for someone like me who's politically opinionated and still visits HK from time to time.

[Vassenor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuPdF9GnIU

This video gives a brief rundown of just what kind of a beast WeChat is and the kind of privacy and security threat it poses, not just to American citizens, but even more so to Chinese WeChat users, especially if they are political dissidents. I uninstalled WeChat a few years ago as soon as I realized just how dangerous it is for someone like me who's politically opinionated and still visits HK from time to time.

If it's about security then why aren't western apps being targeted?

[-Astoria-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuPdF9GnIU

This video gives a brief rundown of just what kind of a beast WeChat is and the kind of privacy and security threat it poses, not just to American citizens, but even more so to Chinese WeChat users, especially if they are political dissidents. I uninstalled WeChat a few years ago as soon as I realized just how dangerous it is for someone like me who's politically opinionated and still visits HK from time to time.

If it's about security then why aren't western apps being targeted?

Because saying such is apparently either a whataboutism, or dismissing legitimate complaints about the former (even if you are critical of both).

[Novus America]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuPdF9GnIU

This video gives a brief rundown of just what kind of a beast WeChat is and the kind of privacy and security threat it poses, not just to American citizens, but even more so to Chinese WeChat users, especially if they are political dissidents. I uninstalled WeChat a few years ago as soon as I realized just how dangerous it is for someone like me who's politically opinionated and still visits HK from time to time.

If it's about security then why aren't western apps being targeted?

Because western apps, problems aside, are not controlled by a hostile foreign dictatorship that wants to weaken the west and reduce it to mere PRC satellites!

Stop the whataboutism and false equivalency. Facebook is not required to turn over information to the PRC government at any time, without any court order or warrant. Issues exist sure in terms of data security in the west, but we do have data security laws, to independent courts and due process.

Things that will never bind any PRC app. It is just stupid to try to improve the data security of Western apps if PRC apps bound by no rules will simply move in. In order to improve our own data security we must stop the hostile outside attack on it.

You “argument” is something akin to saying during WWII “why fight the Japanese Empire and Nazis when we have racism in the West”. We could not fix our own internal problems if we lost the war. That should obvious. Winning WWII was necessary for the civil rights improvements in the 50s and 60s.

[Sanghyeok]

If it's about security then why aren't western apps being targeted?

Because western apps, problems aside, are not controlled by a hostile foreign dictatorship that wants to weaken the west and reduce it to mere PRC satellites!

Stop the whataboutism and false equivalency. Facebook is not required to turn over information to the PRC government at any time, without any court order or warrant. Issues exist sure in terms of data security in the west, but we do have data security laws, to independent courts and due process.

Things that will never bind any PRC app. It is just stupid to try to improve the data security of Western apps if PRC apps bound by no rules will simply move in. In order to improve our own data security we must stop the hostile outside attack on it.

You “argument” is something akin to saying during WWII “why fight the Japanese Empire and Nazis when we have racism in the West”. We could not fix our own internal problems if we lost the war. That should obvious. Winning WWII was necessary for the civil rights improvements in the 50s and 60s.

Except Wechat and Tiktok were using Canadian/US servers to store information of US users. Tiktok is a completely different app in outside of China even, with no data being stored in China. Saying this is a data privacy issue is wrong, it is more of the US being "data privacy is important, unless it's a US company that can surrender its data to us."

[Novus America]

Because western apps, problems aside, are not controlled by a hostile foreign dictatorship that wants to weaken the west and reduce it to mere PRC satellites!

Stop the whataboutism and false equivalency. Facebook is not required to turn over information to the PRC government at any time, without any court order or warrant. Issues exist sure in terms of data security in the west, but we do have data security laws, to independent courts and due process.

Things that will never bind any PRC app. It is just stupid to try to improve the data security of Western apps if PRC apps bound by no rules will simply move in. In order to improve our own data security we must stop the hostile outside attack on it.

You “argument” is something akin to saying during WWII “why fight the Japanese Empire and Nazis when we have racism in the West”. We could not fix our own internal problems if we lost the war. That should obvious. Winning WWII was necessary for the civil rights improvements in the 50s and 60s.

Except Wechat and Tiktok were using Canadian/US servers to store information of US users. Tiktok is a completely different app in outside of China even, with no data being stored in China. Saying this is a data privacy issue is wrong, it is more of the US being "data privacy is important, unless it's a US company that can surrender its data to us."

It does not matter where the store the data, the PRC government can still access it as long as a PRC company owns it! All the PRC has to do is send a MSS agent into their PRC headquarters and demand access. Even if they store the data in another location they can access it just as easily remotely. Obviously you do not have to be at the physical location of the server to access the server. You understand how the internet works right?! The location of the server matters little.

WeChat is still used by the PRC to find dissidents.

Do not buy their “we store the data they in the US” BS, that worthless as the still own and can access it from the PRC.

Ownership is everything, keeping it owned by Western owned companies bound by western laws that are NOT beholden to PRC “laws” (which are simply what the government says they are) is absolutely necessary.

Again this is just false equivalency to pretend the PRC government has equal respect for due process, transparency and political freedoms. A foreign dictatorship is different than your own representative government!

And it is not just about data security per se, it is about reciprocity and national security.
They block our apps, and they are a national security threat.

Again an external enemy is different than a domestic problem, although you can and should fix the domestic problem their is no point even trying if you lose to the external enemy.