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Trump to Ban TikTok – and Tencent?

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:16 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:The US should make it's own TikTok.

We cannot afford a thigh gap gap!

I actually had the idea for TikTok first and then it was announced to be coming to the US a month after.

China stole my idea.
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Tolopel
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Postby Tolopel » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:18 pm

Welp bye bye Tiktok

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Postby Rusozak » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:50 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:The US should make it's own TikTok.

We cannot afford a thigh gap gap!


We did it first. It was called Vine.
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Postby Xmara » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:52 pm

Part of me can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the teenagers who used TikTok to work together to buy a bunch of tickets to Trump's Oklahoma rally and then not show up.
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:54 pm

Xmara wrote:Part of me can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the teenagers who used TikTok to work together to buy a bunch of tickets to Trump's Oklahoma rally and then not show up.

Trump was most likely very mad about those Tik Tokers outsmarting his campaign.
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Postby Kergstan » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:59 pm

To me these sort of bans and fear-mongering towards 5G are more related to Trump's economic protectionist policies than any national security issue, after all that's what China has been doing on a more extensive level for years with cigarettes, online services etc.
Of course if Trump doesn't use national security rhetoric these kind of actions would be even more controversial.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:02 pm

Xmara wrote:Part of me can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the teenagers who used TikTok to work together to buy a bunch of tickets to Trump's Oklahoma rally and then not show up.

Without a shadow of a doubt.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:04 pm

Xmara wrote:Part of me can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the teenagers who used TikTok to work together to buy a bunch of tickets to Trump's Oklahoma rally and then not show up.


Probably, but it's more that TikTok was handing data over to the Chinese government and the Americans simply could not let that happen, especially when it more or less has a monopoly of data collection as all of the major social media platforms are US companies.

Simply put a Chinese social app doing well in the US is a threat to the US and it's ability to keep tabs on its own citizens with or without a mandate to do so. The solution is ban all companies that don't hand over data to the US government.

Even those that claim not to send data to the government will do so, because that's the only way they can stay in business.
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Postby Region of Dwipantara » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:41 pm

Xmara wrote:Part of me can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the teenagers who used TikTok to work together to buy a bunch of tickets to Trump's Oklahoma rally and then not show up.

Forbes wrote:But what if there’s another reason why Trump wants to turn off TikTok, something driven not by high-minded policy but by something as simple as hurt feelings.

A theory explaining all this has quietly and persistently circulated among TikTokers since the ban was first discussed a few weeks ago: What if this has nothing to do with China, nothing to do with national security? What if this does have everything to do with Trump’s rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in June? The event was supposed to mark a return to the campaign assemblies that the president covets, a comeback show of force with nearly 20,000 people in attendance after months of Covid 19 lockdown. And it was totally ruined for him by TikTokers and other young people online who coordinated a campaign to register for tickets to the event and never show up. So, what if the ban on TikTok is retaliation for that?

It’s a theory. And surely no one other than Trump and perhaps a few other White House denizens understand the president’s true motivations for the ban. But as a hypothesis, it makes sense and has a compelling timeline.

“I think his people have told him enough that ‘Yeah, it did have an effect on your Tulsa rally,’” says Mary Jo Laupp, 51, of Fort Dodge, Iowa, who was an unlikely chief organizer of the movement on TikTok against Trump’s rally. “I think that these Gen Zers made him look bad.”

...Shortly before June 20, the Trump campaign said it had nearly 1 million people registered to attend. But when the big night came, the BOK Center in Tulsa filled to perhaps to a third of its total capacity. Televised broadcasts showed Trump at a podium framed by large swaths of empty blue seats. The online campaign against him had worked, though Laupp and other TikTokers are fully aware that their efforts aren’t the only reason that attendance was low. Surely the pandemic kept a few people home; the Trump campaign blamed it on protests in Tulsa, though reporters there that night identified few protests happening.

Now, here’s where things get interesting: About two weeks later, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was the first Trump official to talk publicly about a possible TikTok ban. This marked a dramatic escalation in the federal government’s stance on TikTok, which had been available in the U.S. for two years prior. Previously, different branches of the armed forces had banned it from government-issued phones, and a couple Republican senators had been vocal about their concerns over TikTok. It’s not clear if Trump even knew TikTok existed until the Tulsa rally. For instance, in the great many messages he has sent on Twitter, he still has never once mentioned the app.

But it would’ve been impossible for him not to know about it after Tulsa, the rally’s disappointing turnout linked to TikTok across the media that Trump obsessives over: CNN, The New York Times NYT, CBS VIAC. The internet had trolled the president, publicly embarrassing a man who does not take kindly to public slights.

And, thus, in a matter of weeks, TikTok went from the object of ire for a few conservative politicians eager for a bit of spotlight—to being identified by the White House as a large national security threat that necessitated quick action. And now to the ban on TikTok that Trump says will arrive any minute.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... iktok/amp/


Nevertheless, clear and direct threat that the CCP poses on the data of US citizens are probably the primary reason driving the ban. Though I'm not really informed on how China would use that kind of data. Russia's primary modus operandi on its information warfare is to 1) sow polarizing discord and 2) mobilize certain demographics to suit their interests. With China, it's less clear, but they're more interested in bullying a country of interest into submission instead, so I don't really know how exactly would it takes place in the US.

CSIS wrote:The “3 Cs” framework, coined by former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, defines “malign” influence activities as covert, coercive, or corrupting. These influence activities disrupt the normal democratic political processes in a targeted country by:

  1. Manipulating public discourse;
  2. Discrediting the electoral system;
  3. Biasing the development of policy; or
  4. Disrupting markets for the purpose of advancing a political or strategic goal.
These activities are typically non-transparent, outside the rule of law, and run counter to liberal democratic norms. Activities that are covert, coercive, or corrupting differ from legitimate or benign public diplomacy efforts conducted in a transparent and open manner.

...Foreign influence activities pose a common threat to democracies, but in different ways.... The cases highlight the different goals and tactics of Moscow and Beijing, as well as some common features in their approaches.

....Both Russia and China attempt to disrupt the cohesion of democratic countries and their alliances with the United States, but they do so differently. The Kremlin attempts to sow discord and confusion from within alliance structures, while the CCP works primarily to cajole and co-opt U.S. allies into strengthening ties with China and distancing themselves from U.S. efforts to constrain China.

Russian and Chinese malign influence efforts have had minimal impact on the foreign policies of the targeted countries examined in this research. Despite clear Russian efforts to exploit instability and divisions, there is no evidence that these influence activities had direct impact. In some cases, efforts have backfired, resulting in negative opinion swings in the targeted countries.

...Government countermeasures, social cohesion, and more balanced economic relations mitigate malign influence activities within democracies. But China and Russia continue to adapt and mutate their efforts by leveraging new technologies and techniques to exploit democratic vulnerabilities. Early evidence suggests that China is emulating Russian tactics in the information space, including creating fake social media accounts to propagate false messages, particularly related to the U.S. administration’s handling of the coronavirus epidemic.

https://www.csis.org/features/counterin ... activities
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Postby Tornado Queendom » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:24 pm

Region of Dwipantara wrote:
BBC wrote:President Donald Trump has announced he is banning the Chinese-owned video-sharing app TikTok in the US.

He told reporters he could sign an executive order as early as Saturday.

US security officials have expressed concern that the app, owned by Chinese firm ByteDance, could be used to collect the personal data of Americans.

TikTok has denied accusations that it is controlled by or shares data with the Chinese government.

The fast-growing app has up to 80 million active monthly users in America and the ban would be a major blow for ByteDance.

"As far as TikTok is concerned, we're banning them from the United States," Mr Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One.

It was not immediately clear what authority Mr Trump has to ban TikTok, how that ban would be enforced and what legal challenges it would face.

Microsoft has reportedly been in talks to buy the app from ByteDance, but Mr Trump appeared to cast doubt that such a deal would be allowed to go through. If the deal went ahead reports say it would involve ByteDance shedding TikTok's US operations.

A TikTok spokesperson declined to comment on Mr Trump's mooted ban, but told US media outlets the company was "confident in the long-term success of TikTok" in the US.

The move to ban TikTok comes at a time of heightened tensions between the Trump administration and the Chinese government over a number of issues, including trade disputes and Beijing's handling of the coronavirus outbreak.

...The app is reported to have around 800 million active monthly users, most of whom are in the US and India.

India has already blocked TikTok as well as other Chinese apps. Australia, which has already banned Huawei and telecom equipment-maker ZTE, is also considering banning TikTok.

US officials and politicians have raised concerns data collected by ByteDance via TikTok may end up being passed to the Chinese government.

TikTok operates a similar but separate version of the app in China, known as Douyin. It says all US user data is stored in the US, with a backup in Singapore.

This week, TikTok told users and regulators it would observe a high level of transparency, including allowing reviews of its algorithms.

"We are not political, we do not accept political advertising and have no agenda - our only objective is to remain a vibrant, dynamic platform for everyone to enjoy," the CEO of TikTok, Kevin Mayer, said in a post this week .

"TikTok has become the latest target, but we are not the enemy."

Sauce https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... a-53619287


It was Huawei; now it's TikTok's time to the chopping block. I don't really understand why would Trump be opposed to Microsoft acquiring TikTok – wouldn't it bring TikTok under US control? I can't speak too much on how big of threat TikTok's handling of US citizen's data is. Although, they did say this:

TikTok Spokesperson wrote:TikTok US user data is stored in the US, with strict controls on employee access. TikTok’s biggest investors come from the US. We are committed to protecting our users’ privacy and safety as we continue working to bring joy to families and meaningful careers to those who create on our platform,” said a TikTok spokesperson.

...TikTok’s comms team also tried to assuage concerns by reiterating that four of its parent company’s five board seats are “controlled by some of the world’s best-respected global investors,” including Arthur Dantchik, managing director of Susquehanna International Group; William Ford, CEO of General Atlantic; Philippe Laffont, founder of Coatue Management; and Neil Shen, the boss of Sequoia China. ByteDance founder and CEO Zhang Yiming is the chairman of the board.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch ... iktok/amp/


It’s worth noting that the Committee on Foreign Investment in the US (CFIUS) still hasn’t released its decision on whether the Musical.ly-TikTok merger constitutes a national security threat to the U.S. Even if it orders TikTok to shed Musical.ly, it’s unclear how the sale will happen in practice. When ByteDance merged the two apps back in 2018, it asked Musical.ly’s existing users to download the TikTok app, which already had users, so all of TikTok’s current users are, technically, TikTok users. Now, I'm neither a TikTok user nor a US citizen, so this doesn't concern me in the slightest. However, such a move would obviously impact the 100 million users greatly. Should TikTok be banned, like in India and potentially Australia? Is this a governmental overreach?

FINALLY! No more obnoxious TikTok!
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:28 pm

Novus America wrote:
Purpelia wrote:By that logic he should ban google.


No, because Google does not answer to a hostile foreign government that is our biggest threat.


Your biggest threat currently is still Trump. China is on the list, but far lower.
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Postby Xmara » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Xmara wrote:Part of me can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the teenagers who used TikTok to work together to buy a bunch of tickets to Trump's Oklahoma rally and then not show up.

Trump was most likely very mad about those Tik Tokers outsmarting his campaign.

Not that it’s that hard to outsmart Trump. This is a man who bragged about his results on a dementia test.

Costa Fierro wrote:
Xmara wrote:Part of me can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the teenagers who used TikTok to work together to buy a bunch of tickets to Trump's Oklahoma rally and then not show up.


Probably, but it's more that TikTok was handing data over to the Chinese government and the Americans simply could not let that happen, especially when it more or less has a monopoly of data collection as all of the major social media platforms are US companies.

Simply put a Chinese social app doing well in the US is a threat to the US and it's ability to keep tabs on its own citizens with or without a mandate to do so. The solution is ban all companies that don't hand over data to the US government.

Even those that claim not to send data to the government will do so, because that's the only way they can stay in business.

So data collection is only okay if the US government is the one doing it
Last edited by Xmara on Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:41 pm

Has anyone explained what it is that the Communist Party of China is doing with my supposed marketing data?
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:10 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:Has anyone explained what it is that the Communist Party of China is doing with my supposed marketing data?


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Postby Page » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:39 pm

I'll repeat what I've said before: I don't trust TikTok/Facebook/Google/Apple as far as I can throw an elephant, and I trust government even less than that.

I am against the government telling people what apps they can and can't use and even if I wasn't, I would want these decisions made by Congress, not the President.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:43 pm

Maybe we could have laws giving us the user control over what data apps can access and store about us, and who it can be distributed to.
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Postby Luziyca » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ironic that the Trump administration is so concerned about TikTok collecting personal data and information on Americans for the PRC yet most, if not all, major US tech companies and even the US government itself does the exact same thing. This is an utterly meaningless endeavor.

Basically this.

Even if the content on TikTok is cringey, banning it for them "collecting personal info on Americans" feels hypocritical, given that basically every American company collects personal data and information of, well, everyone who uses the internet, and feeds them to the American government (either officially or unofficially).
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Postby Region of Dwipantara » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:02 am

Luziyca wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ironic that the Trump administration is so concerned about TikTok collecting personal data and information on Americans for the PRC yet most, if not all, major US tech companies and even the US government itself does the exact same thing. This is an utterly meaningless endeavor.

Basically this.

Even if the content on TikTok is cringey, banning it for them "collecting personal info on Americans" feels hypocritical, given that basically every American company collects personal data and information of, well, everyone who uses the internet, and feeds them to the American government (either officially or unofficially).

That might be true, although the difference is that the PRC is a malicious state actor and geopolitical rival with the goal of causing as much harm as possible to the US state and society, through a conscious, strategic, methodological way. Google et all are greedy money grubbers.
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Postby Luziyca » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:07 am

Region of Dwipantara wrote:
Luziyca wrote:Basically this.

Even if the content on TikTok is cringey, banning it for them "collecting personal info on Americans" feels hypocritical, given that basically every American company collects personal data and information of, well, everyone who uses the internet, and feeds them to the American government (either officially or unofficially).

That might be true, although the difference is that the PRC is a malicious state actor and geopolitical rival with the goal of causing as much harm as possible to the US state and society, through a conscious, strategic, methodological way. Google et all are greedy money grubbers.

I'm sure the Chinese government thinks the exact same way when it comes to the United States being a malicious state actor and geopolitical rival, and given according to Human Rights Watch, the American government "may be gathering very large amounts of data about US citizens and others without warrants," it suggests that America isn't all that innocent in terms of stealing data from other countries' nationals.

TikTok collecting information on Americans is not that much worse than information being collected from Chinese nationals on Google or Facebook.
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Postby Region of Dwipantara » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:20 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Maybe we could have laws giving us the user control over what data apps can access and store about us, and who it can be distributed to.

GDPR?

Cannot think of a name wrote:Has anyone explained what it is that the Communist Party of China is doing with my supposed marketing data?

AFAIK, China's information warfare capability still pales in comparison to Russia's, who had prioritized its development for years. However, in the end the result should not be too dissimilar: sow discord and polarization, reduce faith in democratic insitutions, make political consensus and thus decisions impossible, and damage the system.

It's also important to note that one of the most significant priority for the PRC's foreign intelligence is to bully and silence voices critical to the PRC, especially from probably Asian communities who left the mainland and settled in the US/etc.

Luziyca wrote:
Region of Dwipantara wrote:That might be true, although the difference is that the PRC is a malicious state actor and geopolitical rival with the goal of causing as much harm as possible to the US state and society, through a conscious, strategic, methodological way. Google et all are greedy money grubbers.

I'm sure the Chinese government thinks the exact same way when it comes to the United States being a malicious state actor and geopolitical rival, and given according to Human Rights Watch, the American government "may be gathering very large amounts of data about US citizens and others without warrants," it suggests that America isn't all that innocent in terms of stealing data from other countries' nationals.

TikTok collecting information on Americans is not that much worse than information being collected from Chinese nationals on Google or Facebook.

Given the overwhelmingly negative opinion of the US govt and the NSG on the PRC, both of whom wants to see the CCP overthrown and the Forbidden City sown with salt, I'll be surprised if it's not the case.
Last edited by Region of Dwipantara on Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Luziyca » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:23 am

Neanderthaland wrote:The US should make it's own TikTok.

We cannot afford a thigh gap gap!

They had one, it was called Vine, and it was not all that successful.
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Postby New haven america » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:25 am

Luziyca wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:The US should make it's own TikTok.

We cannot afford a thigh gap gap!

They had one, it was called Vine, and it was not all that successful.

Vine is different.

That was videos that only went for 6 seconds, TikTok is basically if Youtube and Instagram had a baby.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:30 am

Xmara wrote:So data collection is only okay if the US government is the one doing it


Pretty much, although Western governments collect and share information between themselves, but the biggest collector of the data is the US government.

It's hilariously idiotic but that's ultimately the reason behind it. As much as I want to believe it's Trump being infantile, the man likely doesn't know what day it is. I don't think it would be because of that, but more national security advisers going on about "it's being sent to the Chinese".

Quite what the Chinese government wants with several hundred thousand videos of teenage girls doing the Renegade is beyond me.
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:48 am

Luziyca wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:The US should make it's own TikTok.

We cannot afford a thigh gap gap!

They had one, it was called Vine, and it was not all that successful.

Well, for a certain time "Do it for the vine!" was probably one of the most common phrases among young adults.
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Purpelia
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Posts: 33370
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:44 am

Novus America wrote:
Purpelia wrote:By that logic he should ban google.


No, because Google does not answer to a hostile foreign government that is our biggest threat.

Google collects and sells your information to anyone willing to pay. China, North Korea, Trump, Putin, corporations etc. And so do facebook, twitter and others. There is a reason why the GDPR was created.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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