Trump to Ban TikTok – and Tencent?

[Novus America]

What is Tencent? What's it for?

It's a business, it's for making money.

Eh, obviously businesses usually try to make money (but a lot of PRC businesses do not actually make money https://www.piie.com/blogs/china-econom ... nterprises) but businesses may have other agendas as well.

The purpose of Tencent is to make money AND support PRC global domination.
It can do both at the same time.

Given it is pretty much impossible to get rich in the PRC without the government being favorable to you, large numbers of PRC executives and billionaires are CCP members (I know, a communist party supported by billionaire businessmen) so they have to not only make money but also advance the interest of the PRC regime.

[Region of Dwipantara]

What is Tencent? What's it for?

It's a business, it's for making money.

"That business" coincidentally also owns a lot of stakes in Snapchat, NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, Apple's and Google's app store, Tesla, Unreal Engine, LoL, Fortnite, WoW, Valorant, (thank you Vassenor) Riot Games, Epic Games, Supercell, Activision-Blizzard, Ubisoft, Platinum Games, Marvelous, Roblox, Discord, Sumo Digital, Garena, Bluehole, Paradox Interactive, Kakao, Fatshark, Frontier, and basically half of the gaming industry.

Banning Tencent means a sudden forced selling of all of their shares in all these companies and many more, worth billions of dollars, in 45 days. In case of Riot Games for example, it is owned 100% by Tencent and is probably completely unsalvageable.

[Novus America]

It's a business, it's for making money.

"That business" coincidentally also owns a lot of stakes in Snapchat, NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, Apple's and Google's app store, Tesla, Unreal Engine, LoL, Fortnite, WoW, Valorant, (thank you Vassenor) Riot Games, Epic Games, Supercell, Activision-Blizzard, Ubisoft, Platinum Games, Marvelous, Roblox, Discord, Sumo Digital, Garena, Bluehole, Paradox Interactive, Kakao, Fatshark, Frontier, and basically half of the gaming industry.

Banning Tencent means a sudden forced selling of all of their shares in all these companies and many more, worth billions of dollars, in 45 days. In case of Riot Games for example, it is owned 100% by Tencent and is probably completely unsalvageable.

Actually it looks like Tencent’s gaming arm will not be affected. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... orant/amp/

But anyways yes it would force them to dump all their shares. But none of those company’s intellectual property would cease to exist. Someone else would just buy it up. Tech companies because their only real assets are IP are quite easy buy and sell compared to more conventional industries.

Even if Riot Games died as a company, some other gaming company would snap up their IP.

But yes it would result in Tencent having to fire sale all that stuff. They would lose a ton of money but savvy investors could make a killing buying up valuable property on the cheap. The PRC would get slammed, others would gain.

But it is hypothetical because it will not affect all their assets. Still it cause their stock to drop 10%. Damn a smart person could have made a killing shorting their stock.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

MAJOR UPDATE: Trump finally sign an executive order banning ByteDance... and Tencent. Tencent is a massive Chinese tech conglomeracy with big stakes in a lot of areas.

While the move against TikTok’s owner — Beijing-based Bytedance — was not a huge surprise, action against WeChat’s owner — Shenzhen-based tech giant Tencent Holdings Inc. — was.

That’s because Tencent is one of the world’s largest and most valuable companies, with ownership stakes in a number of U.S. videogame companies, including Riot Games, which makes “League of Legends”; Epic Games, which makes “Fortnite”; and Activision Blizzard ATVI , which makes “World of Warcraft.”

Tencent also has significant stakes in Tesla Inc. TSLA and Snap Inc. SNAP , the maker of Snapchat, and the Chinese company has streaming deals in place with the NBA, the NFL and Major League Baseball. The order could potentially also affect Apple Inc. AAPL and Alphabet’s GOOGL GOOG Google app stores, which feature Tencent-owned apps.

The executive order took aim directly at WeChat, which has more than 1 billion users worldwide, and whose “data collection threatens to allow the Chinese Communist Party access to Americans’ personal and proprietary information,” the order said.

Tencent shares 700 in Hong Kong sank in Friday trading after the announcement. The news broke after the extended trading session in the U.S. closed, but traders will likely keep a close eye on how shares of Tesla, Activision Blizzard and others fare in the morning.

Banning all business by U.S. companies with WeChat’s parent — if that is the case — could prove to have much farther-reaching effects than Trump may have anticipated.

“Likely he had no idea,” tech journalist Kara Swisher tweeted Thursday night.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.market ... 2020-08-06

This is a video game crisis, if this means what I think it means. Tencent wholly or partially owns a LOT of video game companies and tech. Everything from Epic to Blizzard, from PoE to LoL. They have 45 days to sell their shares or these companies can't do business in the US.

This is literally music to my ears. Does this mean that Blizzard, Ubisoft, Supercell, and other gaming companies will be forced to withdraw from the Chinese market and stop kowtowing to the CCP? Will I finally be able to lift my boycott of Blizzard and reinstall WoW once again?

NBA, NFL, NHL & MLB all have media rights deals with Tencent to distribute content across China.

Too bad. People in China won't get to watch NBA matches. Fuck with HK and anyone who publicly stands with HK and the whole world will fuck you right back.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

"That business" coincidentally also owns a lot of stakes in Snapchat, NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, Apple's and Google's app store, Tesla, Unreal Engine, LoL, Fortnite, WoW, Valorant, (thank you Vassenor) Riot Games, Epic Games, Supercell, Activision-Blizzard, Ubisoft, Platinum Games, Marvelous, Roblox, Discord, Sumo Digital, Garena, Bluehole, Paradox Interactive, Kakao, Fatshark, Frontier, and basically half of the gaming industry.

Banning Tencent means a sudden forced selling of all of their shares in all these companies and many more, worth billions of dollars, in 45 days. In case of Riot Games for example, it is owned 100% by Tencent and is probably completely unsalvageable.

Actually it looks like Tencent’s gaming arm will not be affected. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... orant/amp/

I see. That's too bad. I was really looking forward to seeing Blizzard punished for banning Blitzchung for saying "liberate HK, revolution of our times" during a Hearthstone tournament livestream and firing two Taiwanese announcers for the "crime" of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I really want these gaming companies to get banned from China either by the PRC or via U.S., UK, and EU sanctions and Tencent to sell its shares in all of these companies so I can enjoy their games once again. Governments must send a clear message that doing business with or in China is ultimately bad for business. Boycott, divestment, and sanctions are the only way forward.

[United Columbia Republic]

I am not sure what you are trying to say. They have already destroyed millions of jobs and stolen trillions in IP via market manipulation. What is so bad about us (finally) fighting back a little?

It won't work and will ruin the global economy.

So you are going to ignore the fact that it's already been ruined with the virus? The U.S. Stock Market in New York sure had a field day the moment the virus stepped into American mainland.

[Xmara]

So, I’m a little confused. Will the Tencent ban cause Fortnite and Snapchat to be banned here in the US?

[Nakena]

I for one applaud the decisive action taken against the TikTok.

[Orostan]

>no you can't collect data about us citizens and be absolutely unaccountable to anyone
>unless you're an american corporation than you can abuse data however you like

Banning TikTok is dumb and is part of the American-Chinese economic war over technology. It also helps the USA by directing attention away from the pandemic the government is mishandling/using to genocide the poors.

we love our totally normal and not fascistic in any way first world country don't we folks?

[Novus America]

So, I’m a little confused. Will the Tencent ban cause Fortnite and Snapchat to be banned here in the US?

Snapchat is not owned by Tencent and it will not affect video games. But it will stop US companies from doing business with WeChat I believe.

[Novus America]

>no you can't collect data about us citizens and be absolutely unaccountable to anyone
>unless you're an american corporation than you can abuse data however you like

Banning TikTok is dumb and is part of the American-Chinese economic war over technology. It also helps the USA by directing attention away from the pandemic the government is mishandling/using to genocide the poors.

we love our totally normal and not fascistic in any way first world country don't we folks?

Dumb? Or “part of the American-Chinese war over technology”? Pick one and only one.

Anyways it does not ban it per se, just requires the sale of it (or at least the American part) to an American owner.
So no, it is not Fascist or even that abnormal. It uses a 1975 law that was recent used to transfer Grindr back to American ownership.

[Orostan]

>no you can't collect data about us citizens and be absolutely unaccountable to anyone
>unless you're an american corporation than you can abuse data however you like

Banning TikTok is dumb and is part of the American-Chinese economic war over technology. It also helps the USA by directing attention away from the pandemic the government is mishandling/using to genocide the poors.

we love our totally normal and not fascistic in any way first world country don't we folks?

Dumb? Or “part of the American-Chinese war over technology”? Pick one and only one.

Anyways it does not ban it per se, just requires the sale of it (or at least the American part) to an American owner.

both, dumb actions are made for certain reasons that might not themselves be dumb.

It does essentially ban it, the fact that the US is demanding that a Chinese business hand over one of its most successful assets or be thrown out shows how heavy handed the US feels it has to be to maintain what economic influence it has left or how the current leadership doesn't understand how to do imperial competition.

[Novus America]

Dumb? Or “part of the American-Chinese war over technology”? Pick one and only one.

Anyways it does not ban it per se, just requires the sale of it (or at least the American part) to an American owner.

both, dumb actions are made for certain reasons that might not themselves be dumb.

It does essentially ban it, the fact that the US is demanding that a Chinese business hand over one of its most successful assets or be thrown out shows how heavy handed the US feels it has to be to maintain what economic influence it has left or how the current leadership doesn't understand how to do imperial competition.

No, because it will continue to operate under new ownership. Most users will barely notice.
And what is bad about us protecting our economic interests? Why do you think it is bad for us to do this yet good for the PRC to ban our social media?

This is how you do competition, but it is not imperial at all to protect your own country.

This simply levels the playing field.

[Goldilock]

Actually it looks like Tencent’s gaming arm will not be affected. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... orant/amp/

I see. That's too bad. I was really looking forward to seeing Blizzard punished for banning Blitzchung for saying "liberate HK, revolution of our times" during a Hearthstone tournament livestream and firing two Taiwanese announcers for the "crime" of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I really want these gaming companies to get banned from China either by the PRC or via U.S., UK, and EU sanctions and Tencent to sell its shares in all of these companies so I can enjoy their games once again. Governments must send a clear message that doing business with or in China is ultimately bad for business. Boycott, divestment, and sanctions are the only way forward.

Long live Hong Kong for the revolution of the times? It's so funny! What do you think Hong Kong can take care of itself? The mainland is short of water and grain. Please plant your own grain to desalinate seawater, dear. And your medical care. With all due respect, there is something wrong with your brain, literally. In January and February, more than 90 cases called for shortage of manpower. Now, as soon as more than 2,000 cases heard people coming from the mainland, they immediately called for our shortage of manpower. Yes, this wave is quite double-standard, and I feel inferior to myself. Dude, don't look at all the fuss now, but be careful to pull up the list in the future-oh, no, the list has already been pulled up. Then, I wish you all continue to enjoy the air of cooking oil in a dish. Ouch, we leeks with poisonous vegetables and autocratic taste nothing. Bye-bye.

[Farnhamia]

I see. That's too bad. I was really looking forward to seeing Blizzard punished for banning Blitzchung for saying "liberate HK, revolution of our times" during a Hearthstone tournament livestream and firing two Taiwanese announcers for the "crime" of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I really want these gaming companies to get banned from China either by the PRC or via U.S., UK, and EU sanctions and Tencent to sell its shares in all of these companies so I can enjoy their games once again. Governments must send a clear message that doing business with or in China is ultimately bad for business. Boycott, divestment, and sanctions are the only way forward.

Long live Hong Kong for the revolution of the times? It's so funny! What do you think Hong Kong can take care of itself? The mainland is short of water and grain. Please plant your own grain to desalinate seawater, dear. And your medical care. With all due respect, there is something wrong with your brain, literally. In January and February, more than 90 cases called for shortage of manpower. Now, as soon as more than 2,000 cases heard people coming from the mainland, they immediately called for our shortage of manpower. Yes, this wave is quite double-standard, and I feel inferior to myself. Dude, don't look at all the fuss now, but be careful to pull up the list in the future-oh, no, the list has already been pulled up. Then, I wish you all continue to enjoy the air of cooking oil in a dish. Ouch, we leeks with poisonous vegetables and autocratic taste nothing. Bye-bye.

I'm sorry, "there is something wrong with your brain"? That's flaming and is a violation of the Rules. Do not make personal remarks insulting people.You'll enjoy your stay here much more.

[Goldilock]

Long live Hong Kong for the revolution of the times? It's so funny! What do you think Hong Kong can take care of itself? The mainland is short of water and grain. Please plant your own grain to desalinate seawater, dear. And your medical care. With all due respect, there is something wrong with your brain, literally. In January and February, more than 90 cases called for shortage of manpower. Now, as soon as more than 2,000 cases heard people coming from the mainland, they immediately called for our shortage of manpower. Yes, this wave is quite double-standard, and I feel inferior to myself. Dude, don't look at all the fuss now, but be careful to pull up the list in the future-oh, no, the list has already been pulled up. Then, I wish you all continue to enjoy the air of cooking oil in a dish. Ouch, we leeks with poisonous vegetables and autocratic taste nothing. Bye-bye.

I'm sorry, "there is something wrong with your brain"? That's flaming and is a violation of the Rules. Do not make personal remarks insulting people.You'll enjoy your stay here much more.

I'm very sorry, I didn't mean to insult anything, but it's inevitable that some words will not be translated.

[Orostan]

both, dumb actions are made for certain reasons that might not themselves be dumb.

It does essentially ban it, the fact that the US is demanding that a Chinese business hand over one of its most successful assets or be thrown out shows how heavy handed the US feels it has to be to maintain what economic influence it has left or how the current leadership doesn't understand how to do imperial competition.

No, because it will continue to operate under new ownership. Most user will barely notice.
And what is bad about us protecting our economic interests? Why do you think it is bad for us to do this yet good for the PRC to ban our social media?

This is how you do competition, but it is not imperial at all to protect your own country.

This simply levels the playing field.

Oh, I have no problem with 'protecting economic interests'. Everyone does it. The PRC however does not have US social media banned because they don't want the competition - they've got it banned because they don't want to have to deal with American propaganda. It helps them not have problems with US competition on their home markets too, but the difference between that and what the USA is doing is that the US is putting new bans into place, where before china already had bans on this kind of stuff. The bans are happening now for a reason - and there are better ways of controlling the domestic tech market anyway that don't require outright bans or mandates to sell assets.

The problem the USA is having is that the global playing field between it and China is becoming more level. The playing field was already tilted heavily in America's favor before, but now it's not quite as much.

[Novus America]

No, because it will continue to operate under new ownership. Most user will barely notice.
And what is bad about us protecting our economic interests? Why do you think it is bad for us to do this yet good for the PRC to ban our social media?

This is how you do competition, but it is not imperial at all to protect your own country.

This simply levels the playing field.

Oh, I have no problem with 'protecting economic interests'. Everyone does it. The PRC however does not have US social media banned because they don't want the competition - they've got it banned because they don't want to have to deal with American propaganda. It helps them not have problems with US competition on their home markets too, but the difference between that and what the USA is doing is that the US is putting new bans into place, where before china already had bans on this kind of stuff. The bans are happening now for a reason - and there are better ways of controlling the domestic tech market anyway that don't require outright bans or mandates to sell assets.

The problem the USA is having is that the global playing field between it and China is becoming more level. The playing field was already tilted heavily in America's favor before, but now it's not quite as much.

Well yes they ban our social media for both authoritarianism (blocking their people from accessing ideas and information they do not want accessed) but it is just as much for economic protectionism. The consider ours a threat, we’d consider theirs a threat, even if why we considered it a threat has some differences the action is the same.

They block out foreign competition to their tech companies. Because they will not grant us market access why should we grant them access they will not provide us?

Sure they have been doing it longer, but how does that make it more valid?
We just started changing sure, before we did not realize they were a threat (because they had not been successful and also because we believed some neoliberal ideological bullshit.

But that changed, we realized what was going on, we responded in kind. So what is wrong with that? It is just protecting our interests and leveling the field.

[Orostan]

Oh, I have no problem with 'protecting economic interests'. Everyone does it. The PRC however does not have US social media banned because they don't want the competition - they've got it banned because they don't want to have to deal with American propaganda. It helps them not have problems with US competition on their home markets too, but the difference between that and what the USA is doing is that the US is putting new bans into place, where before china already had bans on this kind of stuff. The bans are happening now for a reason - and there are better ways of controlling the domestic tech market anyway that don't require outright bans or mandates to sell assets.

The problem the USA is having is that the global playing field between it and China is becoming more level. The playing field was already tilted heavily in America's favor before, but now it's not quite as much.

Well yes they ban our social media for both authoritarianism (blocking their people from accessing ideas and information they do not want accessed) but it is just as much for economic protectionism. The consider ours a threat, we’d consider theirs a threat, even if why we considered it a threat has some differences the action is the same.

They block out foreign competition to their tech companies. Because they will not grant us market access why should we grant them access they will not provide us?

Sure they have been doing it longer, but how does that make it more valid?
We just started changing sure, before we did not realize they were a threat (because they had not been successful and also because we believed some neoliberal ideological bullshit.

But that changed, we realized what was going on, we responded in kind. So what is wrong with that? It is just protecting our interests and leveling the field.

The US has known about Chinese trade law for as long as those laws have existed. The American 'deep state' as a lot of people call it isn't dumb. The reason why an outright ban however is dumb is because there are much better ways of controlling access to foreign media platforms. The US could, for example, require oversight of some kind or some tax but it doesn't do that because the US is trying to hold on to whatever economic influence it can.

My problem with this isn't that a social media platform is being banned, it's that the rhetoric behind the action and stated (bullshit) reasons are contributing to an increasingly xenophobic, even fascistic, narrative about China in the media.

[Novus America]

Well yes they ban our social media for both authoritarianism (blocking their people from accessing ideas and information they do not want accessed) but it is just as much for economic protectionism. The consider ours a threat, we’d consider theirs a threat, even if why we considered it a threat has some differences the action is the same.

They block out foreign competition to their tech companies. Because they will not grant us market access why should we grant them access they will not provide us?

Sure they have been doing it longer, but how does that make it more valid?
We just started changing sure, before we did not realize they were a threat (because they had not been successful and also because we believed some neoliberal ideological bullshit.

But that changed, we realized what was going on, we responded in kind. So what is wrong with that? It is just protecting our interests and leveling the field.

The US has known about Chinese trade law for as long as those laws have existed. The American 'deep state' as a lot of people call it isn't dumb. The reason why an outright ban however is dumb is because there are much better ways of controlling access to foreign media platforms. The US could, for example, require oversight of some kind or some tax but it doesn't do that because the US is trying to hold on to whatever economic influence it can.

My problem with this isn't that a social media platform is being banned, it's that the rhetoric behind the action and stated (bullshit) reasons are contributing to an increasingly xenophobic, even fascistic, narrative about China in the media.

Again this is not a ban in the sense in that it would be illegal to use it. Sure we have known about their trade laws a long time, and only now are doing something about it but so?
Better late than never.

And again why is us wanting to protect our economic influence bad?

Oversight or a tax would not level the playing field. Only restricting their access to our market does that. It is simple really. You have yet to provide any good reason why we cannot make it fair.

And you completely misuse the term fascistic, this is not fascist at all. Not really xenophobic either as it has nothing to do with race. 1) their government can access the data, true.
2) they ban ours, also true.

It is that simple. It is a power competition yes, but you want us to surrender and lose. Sure you can want us to lose and your side to win, but it is silly to expect us to not fight back.

[Cordel One]

It's a business, it's for making money.

Eh, obviously businesses usually try to make money (but a lot of PRC businesses do not actually make money https://www.piie.com/blogs/china-econom ... nterprises) but businesses may have other agendas as well.

The purpose of Tencent is to make money AND support PRC global domination.
It can do both at the same time.

Given it is pretty much impossible to get rich in the PRC without the government being favorable to you, large numbers of PRC executives and billionaires are CCP members (I know, a communist party supported by billionaire businessmen) so they have to not only make money but also advance the interest of the PRC regime.

It's almost like neither the CCP or PRC are communist.

[Novus America]

Eh, obviously businesses usually try to make money (but a lot of PRC businesses do not actually make money https://www.piie.com/blogs/china-econom ... nterprises) but businesses may have other agendas as well.

The purpose of Tencent is to make money AND support PRC global domination.
It can do both at the same time.

Given it is pretty much impossible to get rich in the PRC without the government being favorable to you, large numbers of PRC executives and billionaires are CCP members (I know, a communist party supported by billionaire businessmen) so they have to not only make money but also advance the interest of the PRC regime.

It's almost like neither the CCP or PRC are communist.

It is a straight dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Marx would be spinning in his grave.

[The Alma Mater]

So, I’m a little confused. Will the Tencent ban cause Fortnite and Snapchat to be banned here in the US?

Snapchat is not owned by Tencent

Tencent owns over 10 percent of Snap. The way Trump has worded things now, that should be 0.

and it will not affect video games. But it will stop US companies from doing business with WeChat I believe.

No doubt that was Trumps intent. But he did not word it properly.

Then again, the message "you cannot use this single app because the mother company is an evil communist spy, but feel free to use the thousands of other apps ,programs and real life cars this evil company has many tentacles in" would be a bit odd.

[Donestk]

Snapchat is not owned by Tencent

Tencent owns over 10 percent of Snap. The way Trump has worded things now, that should be 0.

and it will not affect video games. But it will stop US companies from doing business with WeChat I believe.

No doubt that was Trumps intent. But he did not word it properly.

Then again, the message "you cannot use this single app because the mother company is an evil communist spy, but feel free to use the thousands of other apps ,programs and real life cars this evil company has many tentacles in" would be a bit odd.

evil communist spy thats little to harsh bro, China is technically an Unitary Marxist-Leninist[1] one-party socialist republic[2] - Wikipedia. Socialism is similar to Communism but isnt Communism at end of day. Evil Communist? Its just how the ideology is based upon and how it worked, less freedom and that stuff. It doesnt mean its evil ideology, what the government does thats how you judge not the ideology as a whole.

[The Lone Alliance]

So, I’m a little confused. Will the Tencent ban cause Fortnite and Snapchat to be banned here in the US?

One can hope.