Trump to Ban TikTok – and Tencent?

[Vassenor]

Only western governments are allowed to sell off our data. Those damn Chinese trying to get into the data-selling business are undercutting our profits!

Would be interesting to see how many people support a strong data protection act across the board, rather than just banning Chinese dance app

TikTok's ban will surely serve as a sort of rude awakening for Big Tech to start respecting data privacy.

>implying this is actually about data privacy and not because the app is what enabled the Tulsa debacle

[Domerstresseistan]

TikTok's ban will surely serve as a sort of rude awakening for Big Tech to start respecting data privacy.

>implying this is actually about data privacy and not because the app is what enabled the Tulsa debacle

I'm sure it goes beyond the Tulsa debacle and not what a bunch of under-voting-age teens do on a social media platform.

[-Astoria-]

>implying this is actually about data privacy and not because the app is what enabled the Tulsa debacle

I'm sure it goes beyond the Tulsa debacle and not what a bunch of under-voting-age teens do on a social media platform.

I'm not sure it's with any real chivalry.

[Region of Dwipantara]

TikTok's ban will surely serve as a sort of rude awakening for Big Tech to start respecting data privacy.

>implying this is actually about data privacy and not because the app is what enabled the Tulsa debacle

WeChat, though?

The move will have ramifications around the world for members of the Chinese diaspora, cross-border communication between families and businesses, and day-to-day living for millions.

So ubiquitous has WeChat become that users pay their electricity bills and order their shopping while video-calling their friends without putting down their smartphones. To put WeChat's penetration into perspective 1 billion out of 1.3 billion Chinese citizens use the app. That's 80 per cent of the world's most populous country.

...The human impact is likely to be much larger. In banning WeChat, the White House effectively cuts off the only widely used form of communication available to 6 million people of Chinese background in the US and their families in China. So integral is the app that Chinese students will reconsider their desire to study in the US and businesses will reassess their employees' futures in America.

The platform is also a key method of disseminating information to the Chinese-speaking population that might not be able to engage with mainstream media. In Australia, the app has delivered political messages in the lead-up to elections, translated news coverage and functions as a digital neighbourhood watch where language is a barrier to conventional services.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.co ... 55jk0.html

[Nuroblav]

Looks have created an equivalent of TikTok, so I wonder how successful that will turn out to be...

[-Ocelot-]

Looks have created an equivalent of TikTok, so I wonder how successful that will turn out to be...

(Image)

Now there is no excuse not to ditch the Communist Party's thinly veiled spyware.

[Deltia-]

Well, can't say I'm happy, but who knows what China does or will do with that info if they get it? Better safe than sorry. It kinda makes me laugh that China's so mad about this although they ban most American social media sites.

[Purpelia]

Well, can't say I'm happy, but who knows what China does or will do with that info if they get it? Better safe than sorry. It kinda makes me laugh that China's so mad about this although they ban most American social media sites.

They do nothing much with it because they have very little to gain from stealing your personal data. This is not about protecting the privacy of american citizens. If that were the case Trump would have banned facebook and google and twitter and all of those. What this is about is making sure all americans use american run social media all of which provide all their data to the american government.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

>implying this is actually about data privacy and not because the app is what enabled the Tulsa debacle

I'm sure it goes beyond the Tulsa debacle and not what a bunch of under-voting-age teens do on a social media platform.

It may have started as an attempt to blame the platform for the Tulsa debacle. Then Trump realized a significant part of his base approved of it as a blow against China so now he's doubled down.

Or maybe he's just casting about for something to get himself impeached again

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Looks have created an equivalent of TikTok, so I wonder how successful that will turn out to be...

(Image)

Now there is no excuse not to ditch the Communist Party's thinly veiled spyware.

All aps are spyware. If you want to keep user data in the US you'd better start, paradoxically, with the US government. Only aps developed by the US government and provided by them can be trusted.

US corporations are NOT the US government. US corporations have no patriotism, not even commitment to protecting the country they nominally operate from. If you go down, they'll be long gone. With your data. And your money.

[Purpelia]

All aps are spyware. If you want to keep user data in the US you'd better start, paradoxically, with the US government. Only aps developed by the US government and provided by them can be trusted.

Trusted to give your data to the CIA only as opposed to the CIA and others. If you ask me, that's not much.

[Novus America]

Update, Trump has finally signed an executive order DEATing TikTok from the US. It isn't effective immediately, but Trump’s new order is set to take effect 45 days after its release or September 20th — just after the deadline set for negotiations in the Microsoft deal (15th Sept). Microsoft cautioned that discussions were still tentative and “there can be no assurance that a transaction which involves Microsoft will proceed.” So if a deal is not reached before the deadline, bye-bye.

Gee, that is not manipulating business transactions at all *snort*

How much is Microsoft paying Trump for this ?

It absolutely is manipulating them, by why is that inherently a bad thing? Fuck neoliberalism.
Manipulate the market to crush our enemy before they (finish) doing the same to us.

There can be no truly free market involving the PRC. Their government tilts the playing field completely in favor of their companies. To even things out we have to tilt it back to our side.

[Novus America]

The same guy that signed to renew the Patriot Act, now wants to ban TikTok because the CCP are using it to do the same thing the US Government is...

It is not quite the same thing, as although the US government can access your data, there still are independent courts providing oversight in the US, and some data protection laws. And we vote for the people who run our government.
Maybe we need more and better protections but some is better than the absolutely zero in the PRC.

The US government is far from perfect, but a government with some protections where I have some say is still superior to a foreign dictatorship where there is none.

But really the data thing is less important to me than fair play. They ban our social media from the PRC, so they should be blocked from our market unless the open theirs to us.

Fair is fair.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Manipulate the market to crush our enemy before they (finish) doing the same to us.

China has nearly finished crushing the United States. I see. Since you're living a long way in the future, there's something I'd like to ask: does cheap clean fusion power ever happen?

[Novus America]

Manipulate the market to crush our enemy before they (finish) doing the same to us.

China has nearly finished crushing the United States. I see. Since you're living a long way in the future, there's something I'd like to ask: does cheap clean fusion power ever happen?

I am not sure what you are trying to say. They have already destroyed millions of jobs and stolen trillions in IP via market manipulation. What is so bad about us (finally) fighting back a little?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

The same guy that signed to renew the Patriot Act, now wants to ban TikTok because the CCP are using it to do the same thing the US Government is...

It is not quite the same thing, as although the US government can access your data, there still are independent courts providing oversight in the US, and some data protection laws. And we vote for the people who run our government.
Maybe we need more and better protections but some is better than the absolutely zero in the PRC.

The US government is far from perfect, but a government with some protections where I have some say is still superior to a foreign dictatorship where there is none.

But really the data thing is less important to me than fair play. They ban our social media from the PRC, so they should be blocked from our market unless the open theirs to us.

Fair is fair.

Chinese have been cheating us, therefore we should do the same back. It's only fair.

Is that even going to work though? China will have the whole Chinese market, and most of the world besides the US. The US will have the whole US market and most of the world besides China. Winning that one depends on the US market for dancing girls and dog tricks remaining bigger (more lucrative) than the Chinese one, but even so it will stay fairly evenly matched due to the rest of the world market.

Now that might not sound so bad to you, but what if the next trending thing in social media comes out of the UK, or Sweden or some place you cannot even guess? They'll have access to the whole world market including both China (providing they make it easy for the CCP to censor content) and the US. That will be a significantly larger market than any company from China OR the US can access.

Censor that too? Try and crush the competition even if it's not from China? I think your users will revolt. They want the latest dancing dog video all the world is referencing, and they want it before it becomes an old meme (ie 15 minutes!) and if you try to stop them you'll have hackers up the analogue port.

[Cisairse]

China has nearly finished crushing the United States. I see. Since you're living a long way in the future, there's something I'd like to ask: does cheap clean fusion power ever happen?

I am not sure what you are trying to say. They have already destroyed millions of jobs and stolen trillions in IP via market manipulation. What is so bad about us (finally) fighting back a little?

It won't work and will ruin the global economy.

[Ifreann]

Looks have created an equivalent of TikTok, so I wonder how successful that will turn out to be...

(Image)

How weird that Facebook are launching a rival product to TikTok just as Donald Trump is banning TikTok. Crazy coincidence, totally unrelated to Mark Zuckerberg's meetings with Trump and the reports that Facebook is quietly helping right wing pages avoid fact checking.

[Chirenai]

Banning Tiktok for national security reasons is about as smart as bailing water with a straw while your ship is going down. The data that Tiktok gathers is nothing more than Facebook gets, and Facebook is already incredibly lax in who they allow to see that data (generally anyone with a check for their pocket).

Basically, if we're worried about Tiktok we should be worried about every social media platform out there*; they all have the same potential to give information to China (or a company employed by China, as is vastly more likely). What are they getting? Your phone's location when you take a video, your phone details (make, model, IMEI, etc.). It also gets access to your storage and your contact list. But guess what? That little crappy game you downloaded to waste five minutes while you're bored at home gets that same data. Clash of Kings or Rise of Kingdoms or Fight of Nations or whatever have all that information too, and no one's even paying attention to them.

Banning Tiktok in govt devices? Smart move. Anything that takes video and posts it online should probably be banned on govt devices. Making Tiktok out to be some horrible over-the-top program is stupid, and just another evidence of the Trump Administration's focus on things that are perceived to hurt it rather than governing.

*https://www.proofpoint.com/us/blog/threat-protection/understanding-information-tiktok-gathers-and-stores - If any of the info in this article seems alarming, look at the last paragraph: "TikTok should be treated like any social media app: one that can be used with relative safety if you’re aware of the information it gathers and what it does with the data."

[Aureumterra]

Banning Tiktok for national security reasons is about as smart as bailing water with a straw while your ship is going down. The data that Tiktok gathers is nothing more than Facebook gets, and Facebook is already incredibly lax in who they allow to see that data (generally anyone with a check for their pocket).

Basically, if we're worried about Tiktok we should be worried about every social media platform out there*; they all have the same potential to give information to China (or a company employed by China, as is vastly more likely). What are they getting? Your phone's location when you take a video, your phone details (make, model, IMEI, etc.). It also gets access to your storage and your contact list. But guess what? That little crappy game you downloaded to waste five minutes while you're bored at home gets that same data. Clash of Kings or Rise of Kingdoms or Fight of Nations or whatever have all that information too, and no one's even paying attention to them.

Banning Tiktok in govt devices? Smart move. Anything that takes video and posts it online should probably be banned on govt devices. Making Tiktok out to be some horrible over-the-top program is stupid, and just another evidence of the Trump Administration's focus on things that are perceived to hurt it rather than governing.

*https://www.proofpoint.com/us/blog/threat-protection/understanding-information-tiktok-gathers-and-stores - If any of the info in this article seems alarming, look at the last paragraph: "TikTok should be treated like any social media app: one that can be used with relative safety if you’re aware of the information it gathers and what it does with the data."

A company run in part by the Chinese government has the same potential to give information to the Chinese government as a company not run by the Chinese government?

[Novus America]

It is not quite the same thing, as although the US government can access your data, there still are independent courts providing oversight in the US, and some data protection laws. And we vote for the people who run our government.
Maybe we need more and better protections but some is better than the absolutely zero in the PRC.

The US government is far from perfect, but a government with some protections where I have some say is still superior to a foreign dictatorship where there is none.

But really the data thing is less important to me than fair play. They ban our social media from the PRC, so they should be blocked from our market unless the open theirs to us.

Fair is fair.

Chinese have been cheating us, therefore we should do the same back. It's only fair.

Is that even going to work though? China will have the whole Chinese market, and most of the world besides the US. The US will have the whole US market and most of the world besides China. Winning that one depends on the US market for dancing girls and dog tricks remaining bigger (more lucrative) than the Chinese one, but even so it will stay fairly evenly matched due to the rest of the world market.

Now that might not sound so bad to you, but what if the next trending thing in social media comes out of the UK, or Sweden or some place you cannot even guess? They'll have access to the whole world market including both China (providing they make it easy for the CCP to censor content) and the US. That will be a significantly larger market than any company from China OR the US can access.

Censor that too? Try and crush the competition even if it's not from China? I think your users will revolt. They want the latest dancing dog video all the world is referencing, and they want it before it becomes an old meme (ie 15 minutes!) and if you try to stop them you'll have hackers up the analogue port.

If the other side is cheating you cannot play by the rules and have any hope to win. Why bother playing a rugged game? It is a waste of time.

Actually they probably will not have access to the PRC market, simply censoring is not alone enough, if the UK or Sweden create one, (both of which are in bad terms with the PRC for supporting human rights and what not) and it actually looks to be a threat to a domestic one, it will be banned. It is about protectionism as much a censorship for the PRC.

But anyways I have no problem with Swedish or UK social media companies. Because they let ours work in their countries we let theirs work in ours.

Again what is wrong with reciprocity and fair play?

[Novus America]

Banning Tiktok for national security reasons is about as smart as bailing water with a straw while your ship is going down. The data that Tiktok gathers is nothing more than Facebook gets, and Facebook is already incredibly lax in who they allow to see that data (generally anyone with a check for their pocket).

Basically, if we're worried about Tiktok we should be worried about every social media platform out there*; they all have the same potential to give information to China (or a company employed by China, as is vastly more likely). What are they getting? Your phone's location when you take a video, your phone details (make, model, IMEI, etc.). It also gets access to your storage and your contact list. But guess what? That little crappy game you downloaded to waste five minutes while you're bored at home gets that same data. Clash of Kings or Rise of Kingdoms or Fight of Nations or whatever have all that information too, and no one's even paying attention to them.

Banning Tiktok in govt devices? Smart move. Anything that takes video and posts it online should probably be banned on govt devices. Making Tiktok out to be some horrible over-the-top program is stupid, and just another evidence of the Trump Administration's focus on things that are perceived to hurt it rather than governing.

*https://www.proofpoint.com/us/blog/threat-protection/understanding-information-tiktok-gathers-and-stores - If any of the info in this article seems alarming, look at the last paragraph: "TikTok should be treated like any social media app: one that can be used with relative safety if you’re aware of the information it gathers and what it does with the data."

Why would Facebook give data to the PRC government when Facebook is subject to US, not PRC laws and is banned in the PRC?

What laws a company is governed by absolutely does matter.

[Aureumterra]

Banning Tiktok for national security reasons is about as smart as bailing water with a straw while your ship is going down. The data that Tiktok gathers is nothing more than Facebook gets, and Facebook is already incredibly lax in who they allow to see that data (generally anyone with a check for their pocket).

Basically, if we're worried about Tiktok we should be worried about every social media platform out there*; they all have the same potential to give information to China (or a company employed by China, as is vastly more likely). What are they getting? Your phone's location when you take a video, your phone details (make, model, IMEI, etc.). It also gets access to your storage and your contact list. But guess what? That little crappy game you downloaded to waste five minutes while you're bored at home gets that same data. Clash of Kings or Rise of Kingdoms or Fight of Nations or whatever have all that information too, and no one's even paying attention to them.

Banning Tiktok in govt devices? Smart move. Anything that takes video and posts it online should probably be banned on govt devices. Making Tiktok out to be some horrible over-the-top program is stupid, and just another evidence of the Trump Administration's focus on things that are perceived to hurt it rather than governing.

*https://www.proofpoint.com/us/blog/threat-protection/understanding-information-tiktok-gathers-and-stores - If any of the info in this article seems alarming, look at the last paragraph: "TikTok should be treated like any social media app: one that can be used with relative safety if you’re aware of the information it gathers and what it does with the data."

Why would Facebook give data to the PRC government when Facebook is subject to US, not PRC laws and is banned in the PRC?

What laws a company is governed by absolutely does matter.

It’s really bizarre to suggest facebook has the same potential to give data to China, when China has met facebook with open hostility

[Nobel Hobos 2]

China has nearly finished crushing the United States. I see. Since you're living a long way in the future, there's something I'd like to ask: does cheap clean fusion power ever happen?

I am not sure what you are trying to say. They have already destroyed millions of jobs and stolen trillions in IP via market manipulation. What is so bad about us (finally) fighting back a little?

"Finish" implies they have nearly crushed you already.

And it was US capitalists who could have invested in new factories etc, who invested in China instead ... they're the ones who "destroyed millions of jobs". Blame your government for not stopping that and putting a tighter leash on US corporations. Blaming China for providing a better investment target than you can, is shifting the blame from enemies at home.

IP is a pretty questionable thing btw: its value can only be measured by sale if it is sold, or by the holder's own estimation which is quite frankly bogus, if it is not. That's why I'm not asking you for a source on "trillions in IP". It's going to mostly be IP that has never changed hands in a sale, and will certainly be inflated ridiculously by the owner. Whether they're claiming it was stolen or not.

I do recognize that IP has some value however. China shouldn't steal it, but nor should US corporations take it to China and then for some reason think it won't get stolen while they're operating a joint partnership with a Chinese government company. That's beyond naive, actually you'd think that a half-way competent capitalist would sell the IP out the back door and then tell US regulators it was stolen. It's not like they'd get caught. In China.

Market manipulation, is that like banning companies from operating in their country? Or do you mean tariffs? I hope you're not talking about "currency manipulation" because if you are, the US does that on a massive scale, and by doing it better to deflate the US dollar could solve offshoring and the balance of trade in under ten years.

[Novus America]

I am not sure what you are trying to say. They have already destroyed millions of jobs and stolen trillions in IP via market manipulation. What is so bad about us (finally) fighting back a little?

It won't work and will ruin the global economy.

It will change the global economy yes, but the global economy must change. The corrupt structure needs to be destroyed so a better one can replace it.
And why would it not work? It worked for the PRC, it worked for Japan, it worked for the US for nearly 200 years.

It empirically can work. Because it has worked and continues to work.