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Trump to Ban TikTok – and Tencent?

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Region of Dwipantara
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Posts: 628
Founded: Dec 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Region of Dwipantara » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:25 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Novus America wrote:
I never said I was proud of it, just that it is a smart move in the Cold War 2.0 game.


More than half the users are in China. It's named something else there (Douyin). Market price, which the US isn't getting a huge discount on, is based on twice the users TikTok will actually still have when owned by the US.

You imported something from China. And payed extra for it. Smart move?

Well, I doubt a Thanos snap on a megaapp regularly used by 80 million citizen will be taken lightly by those very citizens, or future precedents, so it isn't really a better alternative. And since the buyer is Microsoft, instead of the Congress or whatnot, I'd say that's a private business decision and Microsoft will have to deal with any of its consequences on their own.
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Region of Dwipantara
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Founded: Dec 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Region of Dwipantara » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:27 am

Thermodolia wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ironic that the Trump administration is so concerned about TikTok collecting personal data and information on Americans for the PRC yet most, if not all, major US tech companies and even the US government itself does the exact same thing. This is an utterly meaningless endeavor.

Our spy’s are better than their spys

Eh, considering Snowden's leak and the movement it generated afterwards, I'll probably refrain from making such claim.
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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:28 am

Thermodolia wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ironic that the Trump administration is so concerned about TikTok collecting personal data and information on Americans for the PRC yet most, if not all, major US tech companies and even the US government itself does the exact same thing. This is an utterly meaningless endeavor.

Our spy’s are better than their spys

That is part of our problem, they are not.
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Soiled fruit roll ups
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Ex-Nation

Postby Soiled fruit roll ups » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:38 am

My hot take.
Tik tok is just a way for children to advertise themselves for wealthy sickos to abduct. Id love to see data on wether having an account increases the probability of being abducted.

So like yay banning it.
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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:39 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Novus America wrote:
I never said I was proud of it, just that it is a smart move in the Cold War 2.0 game.


More than half the users are in China. It's named something else there (Douyin). Market price, which the US isn't getting a huge discount on, is based on twice the users TikTok will actually still have when owned by the US.

You imported something from China. And payed extra for it. Smart move?


Douyin is separate from TikTok. Although owned by the same company the operate separately. Store their data separately.

TikTok is actually prohibited from being used in the PRC despite being PRC owned because although it censors some content, not enough for the PRC government. Also TikTok at least allegedly stores its data in the US and Singapore, which social media operating in the PRC cannot do, they must store it in the PRC.

And the second part is just ridiculous.
It is not an imported good, not something you sell once than lose control of. It generates ongoing money for you. And why the hell would Microsoft buy it for more than it is worth?

Given the India ban, (which might be lifted once TikTok becomes a US company) it is can generate more value for Microsoft than it can for ByteDance.

Microsoft is not doing this for the good of the US geopolitical position, the fact the US benefits politically is not their concern. They are doing it because they can buy a distressed asset on the cheap and quickly turn it around.

We benefit but that is not Microsoft’s main concern. Someone does not have to intend to help you to help you.

And the US government pays nothing, basically getting some control over it for free.

Everyone gains except ByteDance, who gets hammered.

It is a very smart move. You just do not want to admit the US sometimes wins, and the PRC sometimes loses.
Last edited by Novus America on Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Pearl River
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Founded: Jul 20, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Pearl River » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:41 am

Remember kids good americans use facebook who give your information freely to the US goverment instead of Tiktok who sell information to the CCP (and also the US goverment)

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Juristonia
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Postby Juristonia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:56 am

The Pearl River wrote:Remember kids good americans use facebook who give your information freely to the US goverment instead of Tiktok who sell information to the CCP (and also the US goverment)

One thing is shit, so we should accept all things that are shit is kind of a shit argument.
Also, tiktok's data collecting makes FB look like proper little boy scouts.
https://www.boredpanda.com/tik-tok-reverse-engineered-data-information-collecting/
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Glorious Hong Kong
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:17 am

Good. Also impose Iranian-style sanctions on the PRC and announce a deadline for the unconditional withdrawal of all U.S. companies from the Chinese market. Any American citizen or company caught doing business with China in any way, shape, or form after this deadline must be prosecuted for violating U.S. sanctions. The UK and EU must follow suit.

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-Astoria-
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria- » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:35 am

Soiled fruit roll ups wrote:My hot take.
Tik tok is just a way for children to advertise themselves for wealthy sickos to abduct. Id love to see data on wether having an account increases the probability of being abducted.

So like yay banning it.
Guess Snapchat's been acquitted.

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Pilipinas and Malaya
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:35 am

Atheris wrote:
Torisakia wrote:I like DuckDuckGo better anyway, though I doubt the whole "full privacy" thing it advertises.

I hate the way DuckDuckGo looks. It's minimalist as heck and I hate it.


Agreed, despite me using said app right now. There’s also a lot of weird searches that pop up, like random French stuff, searches that aren’t exactly giving you the results you want, etc.

As for TikTok, certain sections have actually become idea-sharing services in their own right, like the booming ACNH, K-Pop and Roblox sections of Tiktok. Certain parts have emulated what Vine looked like a few years back. So I wouldn’t say that TikTok is just full of dancing and other weird stuff.

So long as the very intrusive data collection systems are forcibly removed, I can accept that TikTok is here to stay.
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Major-Tom
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:39 am

Definitely some hypocrisy over this move, but in terms of Trump's purely political stunts, this is one of the few I won't lose any sleep over.
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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:39 am

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Atheris wrote:I hate the way DuckDuckGo looks. It's minimalist as heck and I hate it.


Agreed, despite me using said app right now. There’s also a lot of weird searches that pop up, like random French stuff, searches that aren’t exactly giving you the results you want, etc.

As for TikTok, certain sections have actually become idea-sharing services in their own right, like the booming ACNH, K-Pop and Roblox sections of Tiktok. Certain parts have emulated what Vine looked like a few years back. So I wouldn’t say that TikTok is just full of dancing and other weird stuff.

So long as the very intrusive data collection systems are forcibly removed, I can accept that TikTok is here to stay.


If TikTok greatly improves its privacy policies and is taken over by a US owned and regulated company I have no problem with it continuing to exist.

Even though I do not use it myself. My big problem is that it is regulated by and under the jurisdiction of a hostile government that wants to crush freedom of speech and expression globally.
Last edited by Novus America on Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Nuroblav
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nuroblav » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:03 am

Novus America wrote:If TikTok greatly improves its privacy policies and is taken over by a US owned and regulated company I have no problem with it continuing to exist.

Even though I do not use it myself. My big problem is that it is regulated by and under the jurisdiction of a hostile government that wants to crush freedom of speech and expression globally.

It definitely is concerning. I guess my problem is that it feels a bit inconsistent when there are other US tech doing to my knowledge (albeit not always to the same full extent). As you say though, hopefully it can improve its privacy policy.
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Grand Quebecois
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Postby Grand Quebecois » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:17 am

As a male who sees TikTok primarily as an app which teenage girls spend an incredibly useless amount of time on (wait a minute, i'm a gamer...), and having a girlfriend who has TikTok, I can't tell where I stand on this. I don't know if there is evidence about data stealing, but we have heard of Mark Zuckerberg, right? Now it is different since this info could be used as a legitimate threat against the U.S., but where was it said that they were taking personal information? If a U.S. company were to purchase it or at least create their own division of it, then let it live. But also, does Trump have the authority to do this? To my knowledge it hasn't been done before. I don't really know how I feel about this.

(MAJOR DISCLAIMER: I am a 13 year old boy who only watches TikToks to see people make absolute fools of themselves, AKA humorous videos. I don't hate it with every fiber of my being, I just don't really have anything positive to say about it. I am also not someone who is against the President, however I try to look at both sides of the coin.)
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Nuroblav
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nuroblav » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:35 am

Grand Quebecois wrote:As a male who sees TikTok primarily as an app which teenage girls spend an incredibly useless amount of time on (wait a minute, i'm a gamer...), and having a girlfriend who has TikTok, I can't tell where I stand on this. I don't know if there is evidence about data stealing, but we have heard of Mark Zuckerberg, right? Now it is different since this info could be used as a legitimate threat against the U.S., but where was it said that they were taking personal information? If a U.S. company were to purchase it or at least create their own division of it, then let it live. But also, does Trump have the authority to do this? To my knowledge it hasn't been done before. I don't really know how I feel about this.

(MAJOR DISCLAIMER: I am a 13 year old boy who only watches TikToks to see people make absolute fools of themselves, AKA humorous videos. I don't hate it with every fiber of my being, I just don't really have anything positive to say about it. I am also not someone who is against the President, however I try to look at both sides of the coin.)

For now a company buying the app could potentially solve the problem. I think most people arguments are about where the information is going, which is China if I remember correctly.

Like you, I don't have much positive to say about the app and most of the more popular content, but there are decent videos out there from it so I don't dismiss it entirely.
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Enrepi
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Ex-Nation

Postby Enrepi » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:39 am

Yes,absolutely sure only Google collects informations about all your trips through Maps. So American sites leak very more information to the government of the country where you live

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Cisairse
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:43 am

Enrepi wrote:Yes,absolutely sure only Google collects informations about all your trips through Maps. So American sites leak very more information to the government of the country where you live


Trump should ban Google too.
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Nuroblav
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nuroblav » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:54 am

Cisairse wrote:Trump should ban Google too.

Or we can revolution time, but that would take a bit more work and a clear majority of the people on our side. Not as easy, but probably better than relying on a state to do all the work. Anyway I'm going off topic now and won't convince many people with my idea :p
Enrepi wrote:Yes,absolutely sure only Google collects informations about all your trips through Maps. So American sites leak very more information to the government of the country where you live

^^Pretty much this
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Postby Bear Stearns » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:11 pm

Good for Trump. Fuck China and Fuck TikTok. We came up with that idea first anyways with vine.
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Nuroblav
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nuroblav » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:17 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:Good for Trump. Fuck China and Fuck TikTok. We came up with that idea first anyways with vine.

Now Vine was the good stuff...

Roadwork ahead? I sure hope it does..."
Last edited by Nuroblav on Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Theberstan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Theberstan » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm

This makes me very happy.
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-Astoria-
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria- » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:26 pm

Nuroblav wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Good for Trump. Fuck China and Fuck TikTok. We came up with that idea first anyways with vine.

Now Vine was the good stuff...

Roadwork ahead? I sure hope it does..."
Do not speak of that name again.

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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:28 pm

-Astoria- wrote:Do not speak of that name again.

:-(

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Last edited by Nuroblav on Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aureumterra
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Postby Aureumterra » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:30 pm

Baby step but you gotta start small when you want to steadily stop the Western reliance on the Chinese economy
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Nevertopia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nevertopia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:33 pm

is this a hit or miss?
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