NationStates

Heloin wrote:

Suid-Afrika and Rhodesia wrote:
Well what's probaly going to happen if white farmers return and restore the agricultural industry to pre bush war standards
They will likely become one of the richest groups in the country. Then the Marxist Roots of Zimbabwe will resurface and then the White Farmers will likely be slaughtered and kicked out again.

I always enjoy white racists from overseas telling me how my country works. There's always the fetishisation of Rhodesia mixed in with something about race relations that seem to always run contrary to the actual relations in Zimbabwe. Like the land seizures were actually some sort of grass root black rebellion and not a desperate attempt by a dictator to find a scapegoat that actually failed to impress the majority of the population.

Wasn't the ZNLWVA reliant on the ruling party for its funding and support? That doesn't sound particularly grassroots to me...

Novus America wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:
Junk in this day and age then, ok. tbh, I can see a hedge fund taking some of that risk.

Given it is guaranteed by the Zimbabwe Government under US law, they can probably take control of Zimbabwe state assets if Zimbabwe cannot pay up. Of course there is still some risk, Zimbabwe could say US law no longer applies to it, although that would kill international investment. But without risk there is no reward.

Shame they are not a naval power

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012 ... p-in-ghana

Aureumterra wrote:

-Astoria- wrote:Mugabe's been dead for a while.

You get the point. Not sure if it was you or someone else but people are unironically suggesting doing a similar thing in the US for native Americans

Yeah; however, I was less "suggesting" that that happens, & more the land being stolen - something similar to Australia.

The racial persecution and land theft of white Zimbabwean farmers at the hands of a recently-deceased dictator is recent enough that reparations would be appropriate as long as they are targeted specifically toward those whites who were wronged by their government and not all white Zimbabweans as a whole. I support this.

How the fuck did I miss that?

Well, good on the Zimbabwean government for making a step forward.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Solvokina wrote:Rhodesia

Heloin wrote:Zimbabwe.

Let's meet half-way and restore Zimbabwe-Rhodesia. It had the best flag anyway.

The Former Rhodesian Republic of Zimbabwe

The Huskar Social Union wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Let's meet half-way and restore Zimbabwe-Rhodesia. It had the best flag anyway.

The Former Rhodesian Republic of Zimbabwe

I'm sure that's already an NS nation by now.

Greed and Death wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:
Junk in this day and age then, ok. tbh, I can see a hedge fund taking some of that risk.

10% per year means they only need to keep their shit together for 11 years to make a profit on paper and 13 years to make an actual profit. And that's assuming a complete loss in principal on those bonds as opposed to a more likely haircut. Yes it is high risk high return but that is the fun of junk bonds.

Particularly in these times of free money. And if they do manage to pay in the first couple of years, you could sell those bonds well before they become worthless.

But.

10,000 points is an enormous return on government bonds. Have any government bonds been that much higher than the interbank rate?

Ethel mermania wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
10% per year means they only need to keep their shit together for 11 years to make a profit on paper and 13 years to make an actual profit. And that's assuming a complete loss in principal on those bonds as opposed to a more likely haircut. Yes it is high risk high return but that is the fun of junk bonds.

Particularly in these times of free money. And if they do manage to pay in the first couple of years, you could sell those bonds well before they become worthless.

But.

10,000 points is an enormous return on government bonds. Have any government bonds been that much higher than the interbank rate?

Italian bonds went up to about 7300 points during some of the budget crisis in 2011 and they were in no real risk of total loss. 10,000 is about the market rate for a far less stable and unable to borrow from Germany country.

Greed and Death wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:
Particularly in these times of free money. And if they do manage to pay in the first couple of years, you could sell those bonds well before they become worthless.

But.

10,000 points is an enormous return on government bonds. Have any government bonds been that much higher than the interbank rate?

Italian bonds went up to about 7300 points during some of the budget crisis in 2011 and they were in no real risk of total loss. 10,000 is about the market rate for a far less stable and unable to borrow from Germany country.

Money wasn't free then, and total loss is an option here. I don't know folks in that business anymore, so . Maybe...

So it seems everyone's favourite bunch of racists from across the Limpopo are mad at Mnangagwa for agreeing to compensation. And even better Zimbabwe is hitting back.

“It is our expectation that the EFF and others who may wish to comment on the land issues in Zimbabwe do so from an informed, objective and constructive standpoint that respects the people of Zimbabwe’s struggles and sacrifices for their land and contributes to the unity and progress of the country.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/zim ... 683741a572

Proctopeo wrote:

Heloin wrote:I always enjoy white racists from overseas telling me how my country works. There's always the fetishisation of Rhodesia mixed in with something about race relations that seem to always run contrary to the actual relations in Zimbabwe. Like the land seizures were actually some sort of grass root black rebellion and not a desperate attempt by a dictator to find a scapegoat that actually failed to impress the majority of the population.

Wasn't the ZNLWVA reliant on the ruling party for its funding and support? That doesn't sound particularly grassroots to me...

That's what I said.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:
Italian bonds went up to about 7300 points during some of the budget crisis in 2011 and they were in no real risk of total loss. 10,000 is about the market rate for a far less stable and unable to borrow from Germany country.

Money wasn't free then, and total loss is an option here. I don't know folks in that business anymore, so . Maybe...

Money is only free for investment grade bonds and the US Government bonds. During down turns people seek safe haven in stable bonds. At the same time Italy was paying over 7% the US was paying around 2%.

Heloin wrote:So it seems everyone's favourite bunch of racists from across the Limpopo are mad at Mnangagwa for agreeing to compensation. And even better Zimbabwe is hitting back.

“It is our expectation that the EFF and others who may wish to comment on the land issues in Zimbabwe do so from an informed, objective and constructive standpoint that respects the people of Zimbabwe’s struggles and sacrifices for their land and contributes to the unity and progress of the country.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/zim ... 683741a572

Proctopeo wrote:Wasn't the ZNLWVA reliant on the ruling party for its funding and support? That doesn't sound particularly grassroots to me...

That's what I said.

Your wording was ambiguous, I thought you were saying it was grassroots, not the white racists.

Though that doesn't sound like something white racists would say.

Proctopeo wrote:

Heloin wrote:So it seems everyone's favourite bunch of racists from across the Limpopo are mad at Mnangagwa for agreeing to compensation. And even better Zimbabwe is hitting back.

“It is our expectation that the EFF and others who may wish to comment on the land issues in Zimbabwe do so from an informed, objective and constructive standpoint that respects the people of Zimbabwe’s struggles and sacrifices for their land and contributes to the unity and progress of the country.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/zim ... 683741a572


That's what I said.

Your wording was ambiguous, I thought you were saying it was grassroots, not the white racists.

Though that doesn't sound like something white racists would say.

I was saying White racists think it was a Black grassroots movement. I can see that my wording was a ambiguous though, my bad.

Zimbabwe has long been the linchpin for racists in South Africa to insist that land reform is a bad idea which is just wrong, violent land seizures is but you won't get many actual Zimbabweans arguing that Whites didn't own a disproportionate amount of land pre-2001. As for racists overseas there is the ideas that what happened in Zimbabwe wasn't an dictatorship that left a democracy in about to lose but instead to buy into the narrative that Blacks were killing Whites in a race war that could happen were they live. Racists don't really ever think through what they're talking about.

Heloin wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:Your wording was ambiguous, I thought you were saying it was grassroots, not the white racists.

Though that doesn't sound like something white racists would say.

I was saying White racists think it was a Black grassroots movement. I can see that my wording was a ambiguous though, my bad.

Zimbabwe has long been the linchpin for racists in South Africa to insist that land reform is a bad idea which is just wrong, violent land seizures is but you won't get many actual Zimbabweans arguing that Whites didn't own a disproportionate amount of land pre-2001.

This is true. Some skepticism over how land reform might be done is warranted, of course, given the context.

As for racists overseas there is the ideas that what happened in Zimbabwe wasn't an dictatorship that left a democracy in about to lose but instead to buy into the narrative that Blacks were killing Whites in a race war that could happen were they live. Racists don't really ever think through what they're talking about.

Also true. You ever seen black nationalist African-Americans call non-American Africans various racial slurs? That's some surreal shit.

Proctopeo wrote:

Heloin wrote:I was saying White racists think it was a Black grassroots movement. I can see that my wording was a ambiguous though, my bad.

Zimbabwe has long been the linchpin for racists in South Africa to insist that land reform is a bad idea which is just wrong, violent land seizures is but you won't get many actual Zimbabweans arguing that Whites didn't own a disproportionate amount of land pre-2001.

This is true. Some skepticism over how land reform might be done is warranted, of course, given the context.

As for racists overseas there is the ideas that what happened in Zimbabwe wasn't an dictatorship that left a democracy in about to lose but instead to buy into the narrative that Blacks were killing Whites in a race war that could happen were they live. Racists don't really ever think through what they're talking about.

Also true. You ever seen black nationalist African-Americans call non-American Africans various racial slurs? That's some surreal shit.

I twice (About 10 years apart) made the mistake of calling folks who were born in Africa but became American citizens "afro-americans" both of them went up and down my ass so hard I couldn't sit for a week.

Proctopeo wrote:

Heloin wrote:I was saying White racists think it was a Black grassroots movement. I can see that my wording was a ambiguous though, my bad.

Zimbabwe has long been the linchpin for racists in South Africa to insist that land reform is a bad idea which is just wrong, violent land seizures is but you won't get many actual Zimbabweans arguing that Whites didn't own a disproportionate amount of land pre-2001.

This is true. Some skepticism over how land reform might be done is warranted, of course, given the context.

As for racists overseas there is the ideas that what happened in Zimbabwe wasn't an dictatorship that left a democracy in about to lose but instead to buy into the narrative that Blacks were killing Whites in a race war that could happen were they live. Racists don't really ever think through what they're talking about.

Also true. You ever seen black nationalist African-Americans call non-American Africans various racial slurs? That's some surreal shit.

Not them but I've seen that several times. And they wonder why a good chunk of Africans really don't like them. Incompatible attitudes for sure.

Rhodesians never die

But Mugabe does

Well it's about fucking time. They got screwed over by Mugabe.

Kexholm and Karelia wrote:Rhodesians never die

But Mugabe does

Zimbabwe under Mugabe is probably America's future.

Proctopeo wrote:... they will issue long-term bonds and reach out to international donors...

...

Ahh, long-term Zimbabwean bonds.

I am afraid of getting trampled by the horde of investors rushing to the bank to buy Zimbabwean bonds.

...

The Reformed American Republic wrote:

Kexholm and Karelia wrote:Rhodesians never die

But Mugabe does

Zimbabwe under Mugabe is probably America's future.

If so then Error 404: Future not found

Heloin wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:Your wording was ambiguous, I thought you were saying it was grassroots, not the white racists.

Though that doesn't sound like something white racists would say.

I was saying White racists think it was a Black grassroots movement. I can see that my wording was a ambiguous though, my bad.

Zimbabwe has long been the linchpin for racists in South Africa to insist that land reform is a bad idea which is just wrong, violent land seizures is but you won't get many actual Zimbabweans arguing that Whites didn't own a disproportionate amount of land pre-2001. As for racists overseas there is the ideas that what happened in Zimbabwe wasn't an dictatorship that left a democracy in about to lose but instead to buy into the narrative that Blacks were killing Whites in a race war that could happen were they live. Racists don't really ever think through what they're talking about.

Of course racists are going to be racists, and racism is not a logical premise anyways. But they are not likely to be at all constructive and of course likely just use this to make out all black Africans as bad, so they should be ignored.

Absolutely land reform was needed, the problem was not land reform per se of course, but they fact that the land was arbitrarily and violently seized without due process or compensation, and often just given to Mugabe cronies (including his own family) who has no clue how to run a farm.

There is a right way to do land reform (focus on underutilized land, redistribute it in a transparent manner, with compensation, and ensure the new owners have the ability and will to utilize it for the good of the country) and the wrong way.

And what Mugabe did was a case study of how to do it completely wrong.

Ew.

That is great news! I feel like that will definitely improve relations between the farmers and Zimbabwe.

Things have been looking better after Mugabe lost leadership.