Should all cars be designed to be remotely shut off?

[Asle Leopolka]

Yes, let's add automobiles to the list of easily hackable devices with backdoor access, I'm sure nothing bad will come from that.

OH WAIT

[Sucrati]

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjd7wp/street-racers-are-tearing-up-empty-roads-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic

So basically, people with no regard for their own survival or each other's survival are engaging in illegal street racing. We could prosecute people for this but I'm not sure what the legal system can to to "deter" people who seem to think illegal street racing is literally to die for. (Either that or they've BSed themselves into thinking it won't kill them like it's killed other people, in which case they could BS themselves into thinking they wouldn't get prosecuted either.) Obviously the emphasis must be on prevention. But the cops can't be everywhere at once.

Why not just equip all cars with devices that would allow law enforcement to remotely shut them off if there's reason to believe they're engaging in illegal street racing? Yes, I can see how law enforcement could misuse it. But right now it's the lack thereof that's being misused. As well, you could make it a felony for cops to misuse such technology and prosecution of such cops mandatory; it would be more effective to "deter" a walk of life that is (sometimes) known to be deterred by consequences than to deter a breed of criminal that is not known for being deterred.

NO, not only will it be misused by law enforcement but it runs of risk of being hacked by those who have the knowledge to do it. Imagine driving one of these vehicles on the freeway and someone decides to just shut it off with traffic all around you.

It wouldn't end well.

[Tolopel]

Lol XD no

[Skyhooked]

Oh dudes, hell no! This ain't groovy even a bit! And here is argumentation: First - cops can misuse it however they want. And yes, that may or may not include racism.

Second - a car, running on high speed won't stop right away, cause Newton laws trump national/federal/state/whatever laws legislation makes up. That means, blocked car gonna be still be in motion, but driver won't be able to control it. Oh boy! It may kill some pedestrian! Crash into a mall! Or just end up in a river and ya'll know, that it's a lil' bit hard to get outta sinkin' car.

Third - Such system can improve government's capacity to oppress people. And it's already spoiled enough to not deserve even more power.

Fourth - And what if some terrorist or troll hacker dude gets the stop code? Oh deer, a big ass traffic jam is one of the least worst things. Imagine, if some truck full of dangerous thingies gets shut down while turning? Or gettin' a ransomware, right in the middle of traffic.

Fifth - Who else will know the way to disable? The corporation that makes cars or those systems. May rig the rig that way, that it won't start, if ya' use third party chop shop, thus making it possible to establish a monopoly or oligopoly.

Sixth - who said it won't glitch and malfunction?

Those were six bullets from my mind revolver, fired at this idea.

[Kavagrad]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but I actually think that this might be a bad idea.

Controversial opinion, I know, don't come after me NSG

[Esternial]

Oh dudes, hell no! This ain't groovy even a bit! And here is argumentation: First - cops can misuse it however they want. And yes, that may or may not include racism.

Second - a car, running on high speed won't stop right away, cause Newton laws trump national/federal/state/whatever laws legislation makes up. That means, blocked car gonna be still be in motion, but driver won't be able to control it. Oh boy! It may kill some pedestrian! Crash into a mall! Or just end up in a river and ya'll know, that it's a lil' bit hard to get outta sinkin' car.

Third - Such system can improve government's capacity to oppress people. And it's already spoiled enough to not deserve even more power.

Fourth - And what if some terrorist or troll hacker dude gets the stop code? Oh deer, a big ass traffic jam is one of the least worst things. Imagine, if some truck full of dangerous thingies gets shut down while turning? Or gettin' a ransomware, right in the middle of traffic.

Fifth - Who else will know the way to disable? The corporation that makes cars or those systems. May rig the rig that way, that it won't start, if ya' use third party chop shop, thus making it possible to establish a monopoly or oligopoly.

Sixth - who said it won't glitch and malfunction?

Those were six bullets from my mind revolver, fired at this idea.

I mean, to address the second point, I drive a car with AdBlue and the moment your AdBlue goes below a threshold your speed is maxed at 30km/h. I was driving 90 and it lowered my speed gradually. A similar approach could be made there.

[Major-Tom]

"Shut engines off while in motion for safety."

Uhhhhhhh no?

Besides, street racing is fun.

[Skyhooked]

I mean, to address the second point, I drive a car with AdBlue and the moment your AdBlue goes below a threshold your speed is maxed at 30km/h. I was driving 90 and it lowered my speed gradually. A similar approach could be made there.

Ya' mean some sort of throttle? Well, it could help to avoid dangerous situations. Too bad it won't fix human factor so problem of hackers with ransomware, governments and corporation still remains.

Yet this improvement is rather interesting solution. Ya' dodged one of my bullets.

[Esternial]

I mean, to address the second point, I drive a car with AdBlue and the moment your AdBlue goes below a threshold your speed is maxed at 30km/h. I was driving 90 and it lowered my speed gradually. A similar approach could be made there.

Ya' mean some sort of throttle? Well, it could help to avoid dangerous situations. Too bad it won't fix human factor so problem of hackers with ransomware, governments and corporation still remains.

Yet this improvement is rather interesting solution. Ya' dodged one of my bullets.

Cars can already be hacked. This "feature" wouldn't change that. The only thing the industry can do is make it as hard as possible to hack a car, thereby making your car less attractive a target (i.e. the investment required should outweigh the gain). In fact, most of your arguments (3-6) also apply to technology that is already widely distributed in cars and could indeed be used to shed concerns on a lot of technologies we use today. I doubt there would be a noticeable difference.

Furthermore, the fact this "throttling" is already possible means hackers could accomplish the same with or without this "feature".

So the only concern remaining would be abuse, which indeed would require proper checks and balances. A popular approach is to use the "break glass" procedure - an officer who wants to use it would need to digitally "break the glass", thereby recording their usage of the technology for further internal auditing. Any further objections you'd have would lie more with the current state of the police than the technology itself.

All that said, I doubt this would gain any traction.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

I feel like this is an option in an NS issue.

I call it the "Safe Streets" program. You can't argue against someone who has a program titled "Safe Streets".

Sure as hell can. When they called the needle exchange program "harm reduction," those who were otherwise on the fence about it realized that its apologists weren't above insinuating that its opponents were pro-harm. This made its advocates look like far worse degenerates than the people it was supposedly designed to protect.

This sealed its fate.

[Latvijas Otra Republika]

"Shut engines off while in motion for safety."

Uhhhhhhh no?

Besides, street racing is fun.

City drifting is sexxxy

[Skyhooked]

Cars can already be hacked. This "feature" wouldn't change that. The only thing the industry can do is make it as hard as possible to hack a car, thereby making your car less attractive a target (i.e. the investment required should outweigh the gain). In fact, most of your arguments (3-6) also apply to technology that is already widely distributed in cars and could indeed be used to shed concerns on a lot of technologies we use today. I doubt there would be a noticeable difference.

Furthermore, the fact this "throttling" is already possible means hackers could accomplish the same with or without this "feature".

So the only concern remaining would be abuse, which indeed would require proper checks and balances. A popular approach is to use the "break glass" procedure - an officer who wants to use it would need to digitally "break the glass", thereby recording their usage of the technology for further internal auditing. Any further objections you'd have would lie more with the current state of the police than the technology itself.

All that said, I doubt this would gain any traction.

But... there is another question. The more ya' uprgade the system, the more work and resources it requires. And this will lead to increase in prices. Cars will become more expensive, and thus less purchased. Price increase is no joke.

[Galloism]

I call it the "Safe Streets" program. You can't argue against someone who has a program titled "Safe Streets".

Sure as hell can. When they called the needle exchange program "harm reduction," those who were otherwise on the fence about it realized that its apologists weren't above insinuating that its opponents were pro-harm. This made its advocates look like far worse degenerates than the people it was supposedly designed to protect.

This sealed its fate.

You mean sealed its fate as a permanent fixture program in most states (excluding Alabama, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, and Virginia)?

https://www.kff.org/hivaids/state-indic ... 2asc%22%7D

[Foxfound]

"One street racer told VICE that because of the empty roads people are pushing their cars to limits unlike ever before—speeds so high they can easily outrun police helicopters."

The start of the article feels like the opening to a Need For Speed game set during the pandemic.

[Galloism]

"One street racer told VICE that because of the empty roads people are pushing their cars to limits unlike ever before—speeds so high they can easily outrun police helicopters."

The start of the article feels like the opening to a Need For Speed game set during the pandemic.

I mean, most helicopters have a max forward speed of like 100-130mph.

They do get to cut corners, though.

[Esternial]

Cars can already be hacked. This "feature" wouldn't change that. The only thing the industry can do is make it as hard as possible to hack a car, thereby making your car less attractive a target (i.e. the investment required should outweigh the gain). In fact, most of your arguments (3-6) also apply to technology that is already widely distributed in cars and could indeed be used to shed concerns on a lot of technologies we use today. I doubt there would be a noticeable difference.

Furthermore, the fact this "throttling" is already possible means hackers could accomplish the same with or without this "feature".

So the only concern remaining would be abuse, which indeed would require proper checks and balances. A popular approach is to use the "break glass" procedure - an officer who wants to use it would need to digitally "break the glass", thereby recording their usage of the technology for further internal auditing. Any further objections you'd have would lie more with the current state of the police than the technology itself.

All that said, I doubt this would gain any traction.

But... there is another question. The more ya' uprgade the system, the more work and resources it requires. And this will lead to increase in prices. Cars will become more expensive, and thus less purchased. Price increase is no joke.

I would disagree. These manufacturers still need to make money.

My company puts great effort in upgrading infrastructure so they can keep billing their clients. It doesn't get more expensive, it's just a matter of staying "relevant", because otherwise clients will go elsewhere. Competition drives the innovation. It'll happen anyway.

[Necroghastia]

Ah, so make it easier for cops to pull the trick where they stop someone on a dark road with nobody around and proceed to do all manner of sketchy shit. What could possibly go wrong?

[Foxfound]

"One street racer told VICE that because of the empty roads people are pushing their cars to limits unlike ever before—speeds so high they can easily outrun police helicopters."

The start of the article feels like the opening to a Need For Speed game set during the pandemic.

I mean, most helicopters have a max forward speed of like 100-130mph.

They do get to cut corners, though.

I know, parts of the article just made me think of that.

More on topic though, I think the likely consequences of being able to remotely shut off a car like this greatly outweigh any benefit that could come from it.

[Esternial]

Ah, so make it easier for cops to pull the trick where they stop someone on a dark road with nobody around and proceed to do all manner of sketchy shit. What could possibly go wrong?

This is a problem with the police and not the technology. With the proper checks and balances this could hypothetically be useful.

If this were ever implemented - which I honestly doubt - its usage should be audited.

[Major-Tom]

"Shut engines off while in motion for safety."

Uhhhhhhh no?

Besides, street racing is fun.

City drifting is sexxxy

Dude, right?

[Skyhooked]

This is a problem with the police and not the technology. With the proper checks and balances this could hypothetically be useful.

If this were ever implemented - which I honestly doubt - its usage should be audited.

Auditor is not an incarnation of justice. He eats, sleeps and bleeds just like any of us, humans. And he is just as prone to corruption as anyone else. And as tech becomes more and more widespread, it will require more administrative resource to maintain all those proper checks and balances. And this technology ever get in the hands of banditos... They'll use it to stop cars in the night and rob their unlucky drivers. Car sales will plummet with this.

Besides, I know, I have said that, but I'd rather not give government omnipotence. There still should be a way to resist in case some Hitler comes to power... wait... did I just propose remote shut off thingy for governments?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Sure as hell can. When they called the needle exchange program "harm reduction," those who were otherwise on the fence about it realized that its apologists weren't above insinuating that its opponents were pro-harm. This made its advocates look like far worse degenerates than the people it was supposedly designed to protect.

This sealed its fate.

You mean sealed its fate as a permanent fixture program in most states (excluding Alabama, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, and Virginia)?

https://www.kff.org/hivaids/state-indic ... 2asc%22%7D

So there is variance in its popularity. That still leaves the whether wording like "harm reduction" worked in its favour (as you insinuate) or against it.

So there's a lot of talk about how this can be hacked. But some hackers have been known to fear the law (the guy who leaked the Half Life 2 source code for instance) while street racers do not. Why not toughen the penalties for hacking, and require police departments to go after it more diligently?

[Latvijas Otra Republika]

Ah, so make it easier for cops to pull the trick where they stop someone on a dark road with nobody around and proceed to do all manner of sketchy shit. What could possibly go wrong?

Stop demonizing cops, most of them just clock shift in and shift out under soul crushing conditions. One bloke even saved my family a lot of hassle when the car crashed on an iced over country road, even offered to pay for a rental sleeping spot.
These people are human and have been trained to help YOU out, most of them have seen more bullshit and human indecency than you’ll ever see in your life.

[Esternial]

This is a problem with the police and not the technology. With the proper checks and balances this could hypothetically be useful.

If this were ever implemented - which I honestly doubt - its usage should be audited.

Auditor is not an incarnation of justice. He eats, sleeps and bleeds just like any of us, humans. And he is just as prone to corruption as anyone else. And as tech becomes more and more widespread, it will require more administrative resource to maintain all those proper checks and balances. And this technology ever get in the hands of banditos... They'll use it to stop cars in the night and rob their unlucky drivers. Car sales will plummet with this.

This technology is already part of cars. If they're willing to put in the effort, hackers can already hack cars and cause them to break to a full stop.

If you're good at hacking, you'll probably go for something bigger than something as simple and high risk as highway robbery.

Seems like overly paranoid reasoning - but as I said before - I doubt it would get implemented by default in every vehicle. it wouldn't be very popular.

[Galloism]

You mean sealed its fate as a permanent fixture program in most states (excluding Alabama, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, and Virginia)?

https://www.kff.org/hivaids/state-indic ... 2asc%22%7D

So there is variance in its popularity. That still leaves the whether wording like "harm reduction" worked in its favour (as you insinuate) or against it.

So there's a lot of talk about how this can be hacked. But some hackers have been known to fear the law (the guy who leaked the Half Life 2 source code for instance) while street racers do not. Why not toughen the penalties for hacking, and require police departments to go after it more diligently?

Why not just publicly fund a few hundred drag strips around the country, and make racing a thing you do at the publicly funded drag strip, get better safety, less opportunity for abuse, lower cost, and better quality of life?