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Grinning Dragon
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Postby Grinning Dragon » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:24 am

If I remember correctly there was a report last week or so about the possibility of an large increase in mail in voting would most likely overwhelm the postal service and that delivery of ballots could not be guaranteed.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:25 am

Unified German-State wrote:Who cares honestly?
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HC Eredivisie
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Postby HC Eredivisie » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:26 am

Valrifell wrote:
HC Eredivisie wrote:3% is lost? That's millions of letters and packages. :blink:


Yes, but it's mostly packages. Plus you'd have to imagine that fewer ballots would be lost since it's literally impossible to fuck up the posting.

That's still a whole lot though. But it would indeed be lower for te ballots as thaty at least would be in a standard envelope format so the machines won't have trouble with them.


Ifreann wrote:
HC Eredivisie wrote:Did I say that?

So fears of ballots being stolen are not based on evidence of that happening.
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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 am

Valrifell wrote:
Aclion wrote:Mail in votes are twice as likely to be spoiled, and that just included the ones that arrive for counting. We have no idea how many are "lost" in transit.


Mail-in ballots are unmarked, you don't know who the voter voted for so purposeful spoilering of ballots by postal worker would be... extremely difficult if not impossible. That's not even to mention that the USPS is fairly reliable in getting things to where they need to go, only about 3% of mail is eternally lost in the system and that's including packages and such. I'd imagine that it's lower for paper mail.

Paper ballots, by the way, are already postmarked so there'd have to be something extraordinary for it to get lost by accident.


The Intelligent Mail Barcode will let employees see where a postal ballot originated from. It would be easy to lose some of the ballots from conservative or liberal areas. Union workers cannot be trusted in this regard. Maybe have the post office ran by Special Collections And Banding Squad ( SCABS for short) until after the election would be a reasonable compromise.
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Drongonia
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Postby Drongonia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 am

Vassenor wrote:Let's see the data then.

Vassenor coming in with the big-brain "source?" response already. It's only logical that the mailing system for ANYTHING is bound to be less reliable than literally handling it to the person meant to receive it. Not to mention all of the other people in this thread saying "haha idiot half the states already do it" as if that's meant to make it a good thing. Also, I don't know about the US, but other secure things such as IDs, passports and so on which are mailed to people are usually handled by couriers, not by just popping it in the post box (where I live, I should say).

Another thing is that I've seen the figure being thrown around that approximately 3% of mail getting lost in the system. 3% could literally swing an entire election. Even if its half of that, hell even if its a tenth, the entire election would be completely invalidated.

I don't actually support or care for democracy, but if you people really do - why would you rally in favour of a method of voting that increases the chances of leading to a tarnished outcome? Even if that increase in chance is minute, it still renders the process and thus the result, impure and invalid. Oh that's right, because Trump bad. No, I don't support Trump either but that's a whole other thread.
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Solvokina
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Postby Solvokina » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:28 am

Drongonia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Let's see the data then.

Vassenor coming in with the big-brain "source?" response already. It's only logical that the mailing system for ANYTHING is bound to be less reliable than literally handling it to the person meant to receive it. Not to mention all of the other people in this thread saying "haha idiot half the states already do it" as if that's meant to make it a good thing. Also, I don't know about the US, but other secure things such as IDs, passports and so on which are mailed to people are usually handled by couriers, not by just popping it in the post box (where I live, I should say).

Another thing is that I've seen the figure being thrown around that approximately 3% of mail getting lost in the system. 3% could literally swing an entire election. Even if its half of that, hell even if its a tenth, the entire election would be completely invalidated.

I don't actually support or care for democracy, but if you people really do - why would you rally in favour of a method of voting that increases the chances of leading to a tarnished outcome? Even if that increase in chance is minute, it still renders the process and thus the result, impure and invalid. Oh that's right, because Trump bad. No, I don't support Trump either but that's a whole other thread.

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Solvokina
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Postby Solvokina » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:29 am

Last edited by Solvokina on Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:30 am

Feh. He can't delay this. We had an election in the middle of a civil war, for Christ's sake. Ain't no way he's slithering outta this one.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:33 am

Haven't several European countries delayed elections because of the pandemic and everything went fine?

Several US states delayed their primary elections already. Where did people think this was all heading?
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Solvokina
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Postby Solvokina » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:34 am

Atheris wrote:Feh. He can't delay this. We had an election in the middle of a civil war, for Christ's sake. Ain't no way he's slithering outta this one.

I mean, there is a difference between line infantry shooting at each other in organised formations than a microscopic virus that can spread via surfaces
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:34 am

I'm ashamed to have him as president.
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Dagnia
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Postby Dagnia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:34 am

He can't. The only thing this shows is that the BBC is becoming just another Buzzfeed in terms of journalistic quality. Do the British still have to fork over a license fee for every television which is earmarked for them?

Ifreann wrote:
Drongonia wrote:The mail-in vote thing is a legitimate concern. I would never want to mail in a vote for anything, ever.

It really isn't a legitimate concern at all.

Depending on your politics maybe. In certain states with mail-in voting, large numbers of ballots tend to get thrown out. If it's mostly Democrats who trust it and mail in their ballots, they have no one but themselves to blame when they lose because of invalid ballots. I have a feeling though that no matter who wins, mail-in ballots or not, someone is going to be throwing a tantrum about the legitimacy of the election.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:34 am


Who has even mentioned computers?
Drongonia wrote:Not to mention all of the other people in this thread saying "haha idiot half the states already do it" as if that's meant to make it a good thing.

I don't see why it's not a good thing that states have successfully implemented mail in voting without any major problems. Mail in voting now is a tried and true method.
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Drongonia
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Postby Drongonia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:35 am

Bear Stearns wrote:Haven't several European countries delayed elections because of the pandemic and everything went fine?

Several US states delayed their primary elections already. Where did people think this was all heading?

Many countries have talked of or enacted election delays, and the only one people dislike is the US because Trump bad.
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Unified German-State
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Postby Unified German-State » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:35 am

Vistulange wrote:All these people talking about how mail-in votes are terrible and should be perceived as such by "rational" people...

...what, exactly, is your evidence?


I'm taking an enormous shot in the dark here, but I have this weird feeling your name is Abdul F*****.
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Postby Aureumterra » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 am

Isn’t the running of the election on the discretion of the states?
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 am

Drongonia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Let's see the data then.

Vassenor coming in with the big-brain "source?" response already. It's only logical that the mailing system for ANYTHING is bound to be less reliable than literally handling it to the person meant to receive it.

But that's not how voting in person works. You don't vote in the count centre and hand your ballot to the person who's going to count it.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 am

Unified German-State wrote:
Vistulange wrote:All these people talking about how mail-in votes are terrible and should be perceived as such by "rational" people...

...what, exactly, is your evidence?


I'm taking an enormous shot in the dark here, but I have this weird feeling your name is Abdul F*****.

...What?
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Unified German-State
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Postby Unified German-State » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 am

Ifreann wrote:
Unified German-State wrote:
This ^^^

Not a fan of democracy and the idea of mail-in voting is only pushing me further away, as it should to any rational person.

There is nothing rational about your fears. Mail-in voting already happens routinely. It is not a new, never before tried idea, conceived purely for this election.


Literally don't care dweeb, voting is for chumps anyways.
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Unified German-State
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Postby Unified German-State » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:37 am

Atheris wrote:
Unified German-State wrote:
I'm taking an enormous shot in the dark here, but I have this weird feeling your name is Abdul F*****.

...What?


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Postby Picairn » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:38 am

Unified German-State wrote:Literally don't care dweeb, voting is for chumps anyways.

If you don't vote, you live with the consequences of your action.
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Drongonia
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Postby Drongonia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:38 am

Ifreann wrote:But that's not how voting in person works. You don't vote in the count centre and hand your ballot to the person who's going to count it.

No, you don't. But the processes in place are better and more streamlined than the postal service.
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Postby Atheris » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:39 am

Unified German-State wrote:
Atheris wrote:...What?


Anime flag, lmao

...Huh?
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Postby Celritannia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:39 am

So Trump being Trump again.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:39 am

Drongonia wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Haven't several European countries delayed elections because of the pandemic and everything went fine?

Several US states delayed their primary elections already. Where did people think this was all heading?

Many countries have talked of or enacted election delays, and the only one people dislike is the US because Trump bad.

It's almost like Trump is a massively and obviously corrupt person and people don't trust him to illegally delay an election for any reason except to keep himself in power.


Unified German-State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:There is nothing rational about your fears. Mail-in voting already happens routinely. It is not a new, never before tried idea, conceived purely for this election.


Literally don't care dweeb, voting is for chumps anyways.

I don't think that name-calling is especially rational.
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