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Aclion
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Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:49 am

Ifreann wrote:
Drongonia wrote:The mail-in vote thing is a legitimate concern. I would never want to mail in a vote for anything, ever.

It really isn't a legitimate concern at all.

Mail in votes are twice as likely to be spoiled, and that just included the ones that arrive for counting. We have no idea how many are "lost" in transit.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:50 am

He can't do that, delaying the election isn't possible, but maybe he'll accidentally encourage Republicans to stay home and lead the Democrats into a Biden 50 state sweep and 60 Senate seats.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:50 am

The Cazistan wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It really isn't a legitimate concern at all.

ballots are already conveniently misplaced all the time
just imagine the amount of fraud that would take place if your vote was only as secure as your mailbox

Probably almost none. You can tell by how there is already mail-in voting in the US and there's never been a big problem.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:51 am

Aclion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It really isn't a legitimate concern at all.

Mail in votes are twice as likely to be spoiled, and that just included the ones that arrive for counting. We have no idea how many are "lost" in transit.

Spoiled votes aren't a problem, unless that term means something else in America.
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Unified German-State
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Postby Unified German-State » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:52 am

The Cazistan wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It really isn't a legitimate concern at all.

ballots are already conveniently misplaced all the time
just imagine the amount of fraud that would take place if your vote was only as secure as your mailbox


This ^^^

Not a fan of democracy and the idea of mail-in voting is only pushing me further away, as it should to any rational person.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:53 am

Aclion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It really isn't a legitimate concern at all.

Mail in votes are twice as likely to be spoiled, and that just included the ones that arrive for counting. We have no idea how many are "lost" in transit.


Mail-in ballots are unmarked, you don't know who the voter voted for so purposeful spoilering of ballots by postal worker would be... extremely difficult if not impossible. That's not even to mention that the USPS is fairly reliable in getting things to where they need to go, only about 3% of mail is eternally lost in the system and that's including packages and such. I'd imagine that it's lower for paper mail.

Paper ballots, by the way, are already postmarked so there'd have to be something extraordinary for it to get lost by accident.
Last edited by Valrifell on Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:54 am

Unified German-State wrote:
The Cazistan wrote:ballots are already conveniently misplaced all the time
just imagine the amount of fraud that would take place if your vote was only as secure as your mailbox


This ^^^

Not a fan of democracy and the idea of mail-in voting is only pushing me further away, as it should to any rational person.


The envelopes are sticky and incredibly difficult to remove, any tampering with the packaging (tearing or evidence of forced removal) will spoil the ballot. Most people have cameras on their mailbox, and fiddling with other people's mail (let alone ballot) is a federal offense.

I need you to understand that nobody really just ravages mailboxes.
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:55 am

Ifreann wrote:Spoiled votes aren't a problem, unless that term means something else in America.

It depends what method was used to spoil the ballot. I can't imagine it'd be pleasant for the clerk to open a postal vote only to find the ballot paper inside has been smeared with human excrement.
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Hanoverian Great Britain
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Postby Hanoverian Great Britain » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:55 am

The Cazistan wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It really isn't a legitimate concern at all.

ballots are already conveniently misplaced all the time
just imagine the amount of fraud that would take place if your vote was only as secure as your mailbox


If that is true, then you would be conveniently going up against numerous nationwide studies that says otherwise, just saying...

EDIT, would like to add that if Trump believes that he has an extremely strong grip on the election, he wouldn't be scared about an alternative voting system in which in the previous election, evidences of Russian collusion were found unproven so what's the big concern?
Last edited by Hanoverian Great Britain on Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vistulange » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:58 am

All these people talking about how mail-in votes are terrible and should be perceived as such by "rational" people...

...what, exactly, is your evidence?
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:59 am

Unified German-State wrote:
The Cazistan wrote:ballots are already conveniently misplaced all the time
just imagine the amount of fraud that would take place if your vote was only as secure as your mailbox


This ^^^

Not a fan of democracy and the idea of mail-in voting is only pushing me further away, as it should to any rational person.

There is nothing rational about your fears. Mail-in voting already happens routinely. It is not a new, never before tried idea, conceived purely for this election.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:00 am

Ifreann wrote:
Aclion wrote:Mail in votes are twice as likely to be spoiled, and that just included the ones that arrive for counting. We have no idea how many are "lost" in transit.

Spoiled votes aren't a problem, unless that term means something else in America.

Oh yeah. Bush V Gore is totally something we want right now.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:04 am

Ifreann wrote:
Unified German-State wrote:
This ^^^

Not a fan of democracy and the idea of mail-in voting is only pushing me further away, as it should to any rational person.

There is nothing rational about your fears. Mail-in voting already happens routinely. It is not a new, never before tried idea, conceived purely for this election.

So is drinking bleach to cure autism. Both ideas are stupid. It does not take much intellect to see why having the postal service between you and the safety of the ballot box is a bad idea.
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HC Eredivisie
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Postby HC Eredivisie » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:08 am

Valrifell wrote:
Aclion wrote:Mail in votes are twice as likely to be spoiled, and that just included the ones that arrive for counting. We have no idea how many are "lost" in transit.


Mail-in ballots are unmarked, you don't know who the voter voted for so purposeful spoilering of ballots by postal worker would be... extremely difficult if not impossible. That's not even to mention that the USPS is fairly reliable in getting things to where they need to go, only about 3% of mail is eternally lost in the system and that's including packages and such. I'd imagine that it's lower for paper mail.

Paper ballots, by the way, are already postmarked so there'd have to be something extraordinary for it to get lost by accident.

3% is lost? That's millions of letters and packages. :blink:
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:10 am

Purpelia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:There is nothing rational about your fears. Mail-in voting already happens routinely. It is not a new, never before tried idea, conceived purely for this election.

So is drinking bleach to cure autism. Both ideas are stupid. It does not take much intellect to see why having the postal service between you and the safety of the ballot box is a bad idea.

My point, which I thought was obvious but apparently not, is that since mail-in voting already happens then there should be evidence of any problems associated with it. Anyone who claims to be rational should prefer reasoning from facts and data to reasoning from vague fears.
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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HC Eredivisie
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Postby HC Eredivisie » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:14 am

Ifreann wrote:
Purpelia wrote:So is drinking bleach to cure autism. Both ideas are stupid. It does not take much intellect to see why having the postal service between you and the safety of the ballot box is a bad idea.

My point, which I thought was obvious but apparently not, is that since mail-in voting already happens then there should be evidence of any problems associated with it. Anyone who claims to be rational should prefer reasoning from facts and data to reasoning from vague fears.
The difference would be that before you wouldn't know who was using mail-in voting and now everybody would be using it so one could steal the ballot out of every mailbox.
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:16 am

Valrifell wrote:He can't do that, delaying the election isn't possible, but maybe he'll accidentally encourage Republicans to stay home and lead the Democrats into a Biden 50 state sweep and 60 Senate seats.

Well in that case Trump please continue to talk
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:16 am

HC Eredivisie wrote:
Ifreann wrote:My point, which I thought was obvious but apparently not, is that since mail-in voting already happens then there should be evidence of any problems associated with it. Anyone who claims to be rational should prefer reasoning from facts and data to reasoning from vague fears.
The difference would be that before you wouldn't know who was using mail-in voting and now everybody would be using it so one could steal the ballot out of every mailbox.

Okay, so when has that happened?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:17 am

HC Eredivisie wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Mail-in ballots are unmarked, you don't know who the voter voted for so purposeful spoilering of ballots by postal worker would be... extremely difficult if not impossible. That's not even to mention that the USPS is fairly reliable in getting things to where they need to go, only about 3% of mail is eternally lost in the system and that's including packages and such. I'd imagine that it's lower for paper mail.

Paper ballots, by the way, are already postmarked so there'd have to be something extraordinary for it to get lost by accident.

3% is lost? That's millions of letters and packages. :blink:


Yes, but it's mostly packages. Plus you'd have to imagine that fewer ballots would be lost since it's literally impossible to fuck up the posting.
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HC Eredivisie
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Postby HC Eredivisie » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
HC Eredivisie wrote:The difference would be that before you wouldn't know who was using mail-in voting and now everybody would be using it so one could steal the ballot out of every mailbox.

Okay, so when has that happened?

Did I say that?
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:20 am

This thread definitely needs a poll.
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Jeffrey Epstein Island
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Postby Jeffrey Epstein Island » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:20 am

Unified German-State wrote:
The Cazistan wrote:ballots are already conveniently misplaced all the time
just imagine the amount of fraud that would take place if your vote was only as secure as your mailbox


This ^^^

Not a fan of democracy and the idea of mail-in voting is only pushing me further away, as it should to any rational person.


this
also why do non Americans obsess over the US elections far more than actual Americans? It doesn't make any sense and they always have the worst takes on pretty much everything.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:20 am

HC Eredivisie wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Okay, so when has that happened?

Did I say that?

So fears of ballots being stolen are not based on evidence of that happening.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:21 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:This thread definitely needs a poll.

I've already mailed in my vote.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Dresderstan
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Postby Dresderstan » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:22 am

He can't and won't try as he might, this isn't like other nations that have delayed their elections like Britain, we never have delayed it, and we've been through a civil war, the Spanish Flu, two world wars and we're going through a pandemic right now, this is just desperate.
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