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The American Eviction Crisis: Countdown to Doomsday

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:03 am

Valrifell wrote:
Dylar wrote:I mean I've been on unemployment since March when I was laid-off and I was making more money on unemployment (almost $800 a week) than when I was working at a factory making $13.50 an hour.


Unemployment benefits, to my knowledge, have been uncharacteristically good on account of how many people have to tap into them due to the, you know, global pandemic.


Congress kicked in an additional 600 a week in unemployment. My kid was laid off for 6 weeks during the pandemic. He made much more in unemployment than he did at his job.
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:10 am

USS Monitor wrote:I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are whining because they can't get paid more to sit on their ass watching Netflix than what I get paid to bust my ass in a hot grimy warehouse with no AC. There's part of me that knows mass evictions would be a problem, but there's also part of me that thinks to hell with all the people that have been sitting on their ass doing nothing while we got overwhelmed with more work than we could handle.

If they introduced a universal basic income instead of extending the unemployment benefit, that might be a good option to keep the couch warmers in their homes while still being fair to the rest of us.

But it needs to be done in a way that is fair to people who are still working.

I don't think it's an accident that many people direct entirely justified ire at those people who must now, through no fault of their own, rely on the generosity of the Republican Party to avoid dying in the gutter, and not the mega-rich, a class of people who already barely do anything that could be considered "work" and yet have increased their wealth by something like half a trillion dollars during this pandemic.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:24 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Insofar as all those are even done (taking out the trash? really?) they all have a market value measured by what the landlord can employ someone else to do. Which quite often the landlord does.

Then there is profit on top. You're saying the landlord earns the profit, by the "work" of employing contractors to repair, etc.



Back in the real world: if the landlord couldn't make a profit by receiving rent and subtracting costs, they would sell the property.

It's a classic case of "returns on capital", exactly what you're scoffing at, and if it wasn't profitable they would sell. Unicorn your way out of that.

In this country, Most small landlords, especially those buildings with 6 units or less do that work themselves


Fine, they do the work themselves. Plumbing, electrical it's all good. Tenants can't sue when they're dead, right?


Since economics seems fo be a weak point. Rent is what the tenant pays for those services, we call that income. The landlord either pays someone to do it or does it themselves. Those are called "expenses", which do not go away based on whether there is income pays or not.


Since economics is my weak point, you think you can just lie to me? Rent is what the tenant pays for the services AND for use of the accommodation AND profit for the landlord. Do you seriously expect me to be believe that landlords do a straight deal on their personal services and are allowing the tenant to use the building for nothing?

If no one pays rent a rental building has no value and is not sellable as such.


For now.

All those expenses still have to be paid. If the landlord cant make money those buildings do not get repaired,


For now. And over time that is going to suck for the tenants. But for now, I imagine they're pretty happy with some lights not working, having to take out their own garbage, etc, in exchange for not paying rent.

they become abandoned


They only become abandoned when the landlord evicts the tenants. You don't think tenants are going to move out of a place they previously paid rent for, because now they can live there for no rent? That's crazy shit you invented to get to your conclusion of urban decay. Landlords are taking it on the chin, I admit, but landlords by definition have assets. If loss of part share in their asset is the price they have to pay, for the government-inflicted recession we're in, then tough luck for them. Others are suffering more.

The black and white image of urban decay was a nice touch Ethel, but the crippled argument leading up to it rendered it rather ineffective.
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Buranda
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Postby Buranda » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:25 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are whining because they can't get paid more to sit on their ass watching Netflix than what I get paid to bust my ass in a hot grimy warehouse with no AC. There's part of me that knows mass evictions would be a problem, but there's also part of me that thinks to hell with all the people that have been sitting on their ass doing nothing while we got overwhelmed with more work than we could handle.


Uh-huh. And what about people who lost their job and can't get another one?

If you have a warm body you can get hired by Fedex, and make 1000 a week. Mind you'll be working 50+ hours.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:33 am

I think this is all part of republicans plan. People can’t vote if they Don’t have an address

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Postby Galloism » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:35 am

San Lumen wrote:I think this is all part of republicans plan. People can’t vote if they Don’t have an address

That’s ridiculous and not even true.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:43 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:In this country, Most small landlords, especially those buildings with 6 units or less do that work themselves


Fine, they do the work themselves. Plumbing, electrical it's all good. Tenants can't sue when they're dead, right?


Since economics seems fo be a weak point. Rent is what the tenant pays for those services, we call that income. The landlord either pays someone to do it or does it themselves. Those are called "expenses", which do not go away based on whether there is income pays or not.


Since economics is my weak point, you think you can just lie to me? Rent is what the tenant pays for the services AND for use of the accommodation AND profit for the landlord. Do you seriously expect me to be believe that landlords do a straight deal on their personal services and are allowing the tenant to use the building for nothing?

If no one pays rent a rental building has no value and is not sellable as such.


For now.

All those expenses still have to be paid. If the landlord cant make money those buildings do not get repaired,


For now. And over time that is going to suck for the tenants. But for now, I imagine they're pretty happy with some lights not working, having to take out their own garbage, etc, in exchange for not paying rent.

they become abandoned


They only become abandoned when the landlord evicts the tenants. You don't think tenants are going to move out of a place they previously paid rent for, because now they can live there for no rent? That's crazy shit you invented to get to your conclusion of urban decay. Landlords are taking it on the chin, I admit, but landlords by definition have assets. If loss of part share in their asset is the price they have to pay, for the government-inflicted recession we're in, then tough luck for them. Others are suffering more.

The black and white image of urban decay was a nice touch Ethel, but the crippled argument leading up to it rendered it rather ineffective.


The whole point is what happens when tenante dont pay rent (look at the thread title) As you mentioned rent provides the money for the services. When the rent isnt paid those services are not provided.

It is not that difficult.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:44 am

San Lumen wrote:I think this is all part of republicans plan. People can’t vote if they Don’t have an address

Democrats also generally want landlords to be able to evict people, they just try to be a bit less obviously horrible about making people homeless. The power of eviction is kinda a necessary part of having rental housing.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:46 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I think this is all part of republicans plan. People can’t vote if they Don’t have an address

Democrats also generally want landlords to be able to evict people, they just try to be a bit less obviously horrible about making people homeless. The power of eviction is kinda a necessary part of having rental housing.

I mean, that’s true of every business. Try not paying at a restaurant - they’ll have you evicted from the building and not allow you back.
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Postby Dylar » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:58 am

Buranda wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Uh-huh. And what about people who lost their job and can't get another one?

If you have a warm body you can get hired by Fedex, and make 1000 a week. Mind you'll be working 50+ hours.

Having worked at FedEx that is not really true. I was promised a full time job only to be told that I would have to work part time until a full time position opened up. And they're only had me work 10 hours a week.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:30 am

USS Monitor wrote:I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are whining because they can't get paid more to sit on their ass watching Netflix than what I get paid to bust my ass in a hot grimy warehouse with no AC. There's part of me that knows mass evictions would be a problem, but there's also part of me that thinks to hell with all the people that have been sitting on their ass doing nothing while we got overwhelmed with more work than we could handle.

If they introduced a universal basic income instead of extending the unemployment benefit, that might be a good option to keep the couch warmers in their homes while still being fair to the rest of us.

But it needs to be done in a way that is fair to people who are still working.

Side note, the unemployment benefits being increased did not discourage people from working. I don’t know enough to talk about your warehouse in particular, but on average, most people haven’t been working because nowhere is hiring.
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Postby Valrifell » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:46 am

Kowani wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are whining because they can't get paid more to sit on their ass watching Netflix than what I get paid to bust my ass in a hot grimy warehouse with no AC. There's part of me that knows mass evictions would be a problem, but there's also part of me that thinks to hell with all the people that have been sitting on their ass doing nothing while we got overwhelmed with more work than we could handle.

If they introduced a universal basic income instead of extending the unemployment benefit, that might be a good option to keep the couch warmers in their homes while still being fair to the rest of us.

But it needs to be done in a way that is fair to people who are still working.

Side note, the unemployment benefits being increased did not discourage people from working. I don’t know enough to talk about your warehouse in particular, but on average, most people haven’t been working because nowhere is hiring.


We should note that employment is often linked to one's self of worth, not to mention it offers something to do most days. That is to say, people like being employed and don't typically enjoy being layabouts.
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:04 am

Purpelia wrote:
New haven america wrote:How you can live in a developed country that's a Welfare State and has dozens of social safety nets like UHC and the like yet you're willing to make the same arguments that The GOP makes against those systems baffles me.

Just a few days ago you were arguing that the US is corrupt to the bone and now you're preaching the messages of the ones responsible for said corruption.

How you got to that interpretation from what I wrote is beyond the pale. Like, seriously, are you drunk right now? This is not an insult by the way. I just can't see any other reason why you would interpret what I wrote in that way other than maybe that you literally refused to read the conversation preceding it.

I am making an argument against the guy who wants to abolish all private property.

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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:31 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Fine, they do the work themselves. Plumbing, electrical it's all good. Tenants can't sue when they're dead, right?



Since economics is my weak point, you think you can just lie to me? Rent is what the tenant pays for the services AND for use of the accommodation AND profit for the landlord. Do you seriously expect me to be believe that landlords do a straight deal on their personal services and are allowing the tenant to use the building for nothing?



For now.



For now. And over time that is going to suck for the tenants. But for now, I imagine they're pretty happy with some lights not working, having to take out their own garbage, etc, in exchange for not paying rent.



They only become abandoned when the landlord evicts the tenants. You don't think tenants are going to move out of a place they previously paid rent for, because now they can live there for no rent? That's crazy shit you invented to get to your conclusion of urban decay. Landlords are taking it on the chin, I admit, but landlords by definition have assets. If loss of part share in their asset is the price they have to pay, for the government-inflicted recession we're in, then tough luck for them. Others are suffering more.

The black and white image of urban decay was a nice touch Ethel, but the crippled argument leading up to it rendered it rather ineffective.


The whole point is what happens when tenante dont pay rent (look at the thread title) As you mentioned rent provides the money for the services. When the rent isnt paid those services are not provided.

It is not that difficult.


That is true when said services are provided. When I was a renter, I had a few landlords who did next to nothing and fought hard to keep the deposits when I left.

As to the comment on the unemployment. Sure the extra 600 is nice; still way less then what I made. Listening to wealthy people (that clown kudlaw, old McC) yabbering on about how the 600 is keeping me from looking for a job is rather annoying. It will be interesting as my unemployment runs out in a 2 weeks.
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:52 am

Purpelia wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:You're right, private property is the source of this issue and so many more. Everything (and everyone) is a either a commodity and/or a tool in a capitalist society

Private property is necessary though. Without private ownership over stuff people would be forced to share everything with everyone. And that is absolutely horrifying to no end given how bad people actually are. I mean, maybe if humans were actually good by nature that might work. But the very idea anybody would even contemplate such an eventuality is laughable.

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You wouldn't have to share everything, because the items you own are personal property. Private property only applies to wealth, land, and the means of production.
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Postby Genivaria » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:54 am

Kowani wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are whining because they can't get paid more to sit on their ass watching Netflix than what I get paid to bust my ass in a hot grimy warehouse with no AC. There's part of me that knows mass evictions would be a problem, but there's also part of me that thinks to hell with all the people that have been sitting on their ass doing nothing while we got overwhelmed with more work than we could handle.

If they introduced a universal basic income instead of extending the unemployment benefit, that might be a good option to keep the couch warmers in their homes while still being fair to the rest of us.

But it needs to be done in a way that is fair to people who are still working.

Side note, the unemployment benefits being increased did not discourage people from working. I don’t know enough to talk about your warehouse in particular, but on average, most people haven’t been working because nowhere is hiring.

I walked a square mile around where I live (distance is a major factor for me since I don't own a car) and of the 40+ businesses around here most are still closed and maybe 1 is hiring part time.
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Postby Torisakia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:10 pm

I secretly hope I get affected by this simply because if I'm homeless and have no official address I can use that as my excuse for not voting and it actually being something I can do nothing about.
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:24 pm

Torisakia wrote:I secretly hope I get affected by this simply because if I'm homeless and have no official address I can use that as my excuse for not voting and it actually being something I can do nothing about.

That’s not actually how that works.
Also, homelessness is a terrible situation that people shouldn’t be in.

Genivaria wrote:
Kowani wrote:Side note, the unemployment benefits being increased did not discourage people from working. I don’t know enough to talk about your warehouse in particular, but on average, most people haven’t been working because nowhere is hiring.

I walked a square mile around where I live (distance is a major factor for me since I don't own a car) and of the 40+ businesses around here most are still closed and maybe 1 is hiring part time.

Perfect example, but holy hell, that sucks.
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Postby Torisakia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:58 pm

Kowani wrote:
Torisakia wrote:I secretly hope I get affected by this simply because if I'm homeless and have no official address I can use that as my excuse for not voting and it actually being something I can do nothing about.

That’s not actually how that works.
Also, homelessness is a terrible situation that people shouldn’t be in.

Dangit.

If homelessness is such a bad thing then why is the government so hell bent on evicting people? That's not helping the problem, but fixing things isn't a strong suit for the US government.
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Postby Shofercia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:17 pm

Kowani wrote:Source

On July 31, approximately 25 million people across the U.S. will stop receiving weekly $600 federal unemployment checks. Under new proposals by Senate Republicans, those benefits would be cut by 43% and replaced with a reduced weekly payment of $200 through September. That could have serious repercussions for tens of millions of Americans who have counted on the $600 payment as a crucial financial lifeline amid the economic havoc wreaked by the pandemic across the country. On top of that, the Federal Eviction Moratorium has expired, placing renters with federally backed mortgages at risk of losing their homes. It is estimated that they account for just over a quarter of all U.S. renters.

Even though White House economic advisor Larry Kudlow has hinted on an extension, the provision's expiration has allowed landlords to file eviction notices, though they won't be able to push people out of their homes for at least another 30 days. Combined with the cut in unemployment payments, it is likely to create the perfect storm for U.S. renters. An analysis from global advisory firm Stout Risius Ross estimates that more than 40% of renter households in the U.S. are going to experience rental shortfall during the Covid-19 crisis with just under 12 million facing eviction over the next four months alone. Around 17 million are likely to be impacted throughout the pandemic.

The analysis is based on Household Pulse Data from mid-July and it found that some states will be hit harder than others. For example, West Virginia is estimated to have the highest share of renter households facing eviction at close to 60%. Tennessee, Minnesota, Mississippi, Florida and Louisiana are all among the states set to be worst impacted with shares at 50% or higher. Elsewhere, Vermont is the state where renters will be at the lowest risk of eviction, though 22% of them will potentially lose their homes over the course of the crisis.


28 million people. The US is expected to see 28 million people out of their homes by October. 40% of all renters, expected to be unable to make their payments.



Those numbers are way off: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/08/32-perc ... ments.html

Renters are especially vulnerable. About 36% of renters, who are more likely to work in industries devastated by the coronavirus, missed their July housing bill, compared to 30% of homeowners.


Presuming a 60-40% owner-renter ratio, and presuming that half of the homes are paid off, or soon to be paid off, that leaves 23.4% of Americans as being potentially homeless. Out of a population of 328.2 million, that's 76.8 million people, and that's before the nadir of the downshift economic spiral. If this isn't dealt with, by then end of 2021, as many as 100 million Americans could be homeless. So 28 million is incredibly optimistic.

We need to extend rent freezes and mortgage freezes and UBI until we have a cure for COVID-19. Yes, the $1,200 was the UBI I'm referring to, and it should be received by all US Citizens over 18 on a bi-weekly, or at the very least on a monthly basis. We should also have $600 for child support, per kid.
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:19 pm

Liriena wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Rent should really be abolished, but we could at least suspend it as well as evictions for the time being.



In fact, there's enough housing in the U.S. for everyone, only because they're "private property" it would be a crime to enter them. We should let anyone in need into these homes.

Look, all I'm saying is landlords should get a real job like real Americans.


What do you even think a landlord does?

-maintains the property
-pays the mortgage, taxes, etc.

If there are no landlords then suddenly the only thing keeping people occupied in lieu of high housing costs is gone. If people's preference is to pay a bit of money each month compared to shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars on a loan then you can see where landlords are beneficial. And after all, if I own a piece of property, why shouldn't I be able to rent it out? Most landlords aren't amazingly rich.
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:22 pm

The entire "profession" of landlordery (I don't care if that's not a word, it is now) is an undeniable and unjustifiable drain on the working class. Landlords should not exist, and any society that does not consider housing a basic human right is doomed to failure.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:32 pm

Shofercia wrote:Those numbers are way off: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/08/32-perc ... ments.html

Renters are especially vulnerable. About 36% of renters, who are more likely to work in industries devastated by the coronavirus, missed their July housing bill, compared to 30% of homeowners.


Presuming a 60-40% owner-renter ratio, and presuming that half of the homes are paid off, or soon to be paid off, that leaves 23.4% of Americans as being potentially homeless. Out of a population of 328.2 million, that's 76.8 million people, and that's before the nadir of the downshift economic spiral. If this isn't dealt with, by then end of 2021, as many as 100 million Americans could be homeless. So 28 million is incredibly optimistic.

We need to extend rent freezes and mortgage freezes and UBI until we have a cure for COVID-19. Yes, the $1,200 was the UBI I'm referring to, and it should be received by all US Citizens over 18 on a bi-weekly, or at the very least on a monthly basis. We should also have $600 for child support, per kid.

…I’m gonna add that to the OP.
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:33 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:
Liriena wrote:Look, all I'm saying is landlords should get a real job like real Americans.


What do you even think a landlord does?

-maintains the property
-pays the mortgage, taxes, etc.

If there are no landlords then suddenly the only thing keeping people occupied in lieu of high housing costs is gone. If people's preference is to pay a bit of money each month compared to shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars on a loan then you can see where landlords are beneficial. And after all, if I own a piece of property, why shouldn't I be able to rent it out? Most landlords aren't amazingly rich.


There is a always a landlord. If he is forced to sell, there are buyers.
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:11 pm

Torisakia wrote:I secretly hope I get affected by this simply because if I'm homeless and have no official address I can use that as my excuse for not voting and it actually being something I can do nothing about.

That's why Republicans are doing this. If you have no official address you can't vote

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