The American Eviction Crisis: Countdown to Doomsday

[Vetalia]

Here's a simpler solution to legally forcing a rent freeze or building free housing or going full communism, etc. You know those $500 billion bailouts of taxpayer for megacorps, which went straight into executive bonuses and bribing campaign donating to politicians to give even more bailouts in the future, where it will never do the slightest good? What if instead, that exact same sum had been equally divided and passed out to every single American citizen, so they could afford to survive with their jobs closed down for the quarantine, where it'd be recirculated back into the economy in the form of essential purchases?

Which bailouts are you talking about? The PPP wasn't a bailout, although the implementation was rather botched...

[Grenartia]

Again, landlords shouldn't exist. Any actual job they do could be done far more ethically by a housing cooperative.

Oh ffs, a lot of landlords can be parasitic, but the current implementation of housing cooperatives still involves paying into the co-operative. I mean, great, you don't pay someone you hate, but it's often in it's current state just as expensive as similarly leased properties.

Sure, that needs to be addressed independently.

And you know well that unless we somehow sink the economy by "cancelling rent" and "cancelling landlords," there really isn't going to be another short-term option that directly responds to the needs of the working class. Because it's easy to look at a facet of the problem, IE, bad landlords in this case, and just demand they go away. But the reality of doing so would still be counterintuitive to a genuine economic recovery for all.

On the contrary, it would only 'crash the economy' by traditional measures that focus on how well the property-owning class is doing. If we used metrics that measured how well the actual working class is doing, I remain confident a very different story would be told. More people with more money means more ability to buy things, which is what literally drives the economy.

I edited my post to make it more clear.

Some definitions:

Private property is property that you make profit (usually passively) just by owning or by depriving others of.

Personal property is property that you personally possess and use.

A factory that you don't work in is private property, a sweater is personal property, a house if private property for a landlord and personal property for its residents.

Hating rich people is no different than Hating any other people.

Hardly.

Excessive wealth hoarding is a choice, and one that negatively impacts the rest of society. Being black or gay is neither.

Again, landlords shouldn't exist. Any actual job they do could be done far more ethically by a housing cooperative.

Bold of you to assume large-scale housing coops won't (and already don't) evict people.

Bold of you to assume I assumed that.

Shifting the cost burden does not eliminate it, so eventually if you can't pay you'll be replaced by someone who can. This is ECON 101.

The goal is to reduce the excess cost at point of use. Housing should be considered a human right, because it is.

Dismissing any economic theory as "bullshit" out of hand is dumb.

Let me try to explain Mirjt's statement through economics:

The labor theory of value gives that the inherent value of every commodity and service is a function of the amount of labor and quality of the labor applied to produce it. The concept of cost the limit of price further gives that the only fair payment for a commodity of service is an equal amount of labor to the value of the commodity or service or a commodity or service of equal labor value. The rent that a landlord makes, even if they do do upkeep on the property themselves, is obviously not in proportion to their labor.

According to this economic conception, the only fair way to accumulate capital is by making sure the labor value you produce is greater than the labor value you consume. Profit is also unethical, since it is the difference between the amount of labor value you receive and the amount of labor value you exchange for it, which according to cost the limit of the price ought to be zero. Corporations can only make this profit by either exchanging products with consumers for more than the labor value of the products, or by compensating their workers with something less labor value than the full value of their labor. According to cost the limit of price, both ways are unethical and "stealing," from either the worker or the consumer.

How do you determine the value of labor?

Cost of living for the worker is a good place to start.

Here's a simpler solution to legally forcing a rent freeze or building free housing or going full communism, etc. You know those $500 billion bailouts of taxpayer for megacorps, which went straight into executive bonuses and bribing campaign donating to politicians to give even more bailouts in the future, where it will never do the slightest good? What if instead, that exact same sum had been equally divided and passed out to every single American citizen, so they could afford to survive with their jobs closed down for the quarantine, where it'd be recirculated back into the economy in the form of essential purchases?

So stimulus checks and a UBI. While I support both of those, the problem is that landlords and corporations will raise prices in order to absorb the increase in the money that their tenants and consumers now have, and all of the stimulus and UBI will end up ending up enriching the already rich. Stimulus checks and a UBI require other policies to work with them for them to be effective.

And that is why said price increases must be legislated against.

[Mirjt]

So stimulus checks and a UBI. While I support both of those, the problem is that landlords and corporations will raise prices in order to absorb the increase in the money that their tenants and consumers now have, and all of the stimulus and UBI will end up ending up enriching the already rich. Stimulus checks and a UBI require other policies to work with them for them to be effective.

And that is why said price increases must be legislated against.

I agree (along with a long list of other policies that work synergistically with one another)

[Grenartia]

And that is why said price increases must be legislated against.

I agree (along with a long list of other policies that work synergistically with one another)

Exactly. Half-assing things will only lead to failure.

[Vetalia]

Exactly. Half-assing things will only lead to failure.

The problem is, price controls don't work.

[Grenartia]

Exactly. Half-assing things will only lead to failure.

The problem is, price controls don't work.

Maybe they don't when you half-ass their implementation and enforcement.

[Vetalia]

Maybe they don't when you half-ass their implementation and enforcement.

That would require rationing.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Exactly. Half-assing things will only lead to failure.

The problem is, price controls don't work.

Price controls fail if they are set too low compared to current market price. They also fail, eventually, if they're not indexed.

They fail by sabotage too. One political side utterly opposed to them, refuses to allow them to be adjusted or indexed, knowing that eventually this will cause them to fail.

[Tornado Queendom]

I REALLY think that Trump's trying to fix issues, but they are so engrained into American society that it's impossible for a moderate to fix.

This is why we need Ancapistan.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I REALLY think that Trump's trying to fix issues, but they are so engrained into American society that it's impossible for a moderate to fix.

This is why we need Ancapistan.

Pffph. How does Trump's action or inaction relate to rent and mortgage relief?

[New haven america]

I REALLY think that Trump's trying to fix issues, but they are so engrained into American society that it's impossible for a moderate to fix.

This is why we need Ancapistan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

[Tornado Queendom]

I REALLY think that Trump's trying to fix issues, but they are so engrained into American society that it's impossible for a moderate to fix.

This is why we need Ancapistan.

Pffph. How does Trump's action or inaction relate to rent and mortgage relief?

Remember: they've been an issue since Nixon. Look up the War on Drugs. Every issue in America today would've been prevented by nipping that at the bud.

[b]I REALLY think that Trump's trying to fix issues,[/b] but they are so engrained into American society that it's impossible for a moderate to fix.

This is why we need Ancapistan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

They've been a MASSIVE economic issue ever since Enron's innovation was toppled by a bad accountant putting an extra 0 at the end of Enron's profits that went unnoticed.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Pffph. How does Trump's action or inaction relate to rent and mortgage relief?

Remember: they've been an issue since Nixon. Look up the War on Drugs. Every issue in America today would've been prevented by nipping that at the bud.

Are you talking about price controls? Or what?

[Picairn]

Are you talking about price controls? Or what?

Oh god no price controls please, similar measures by Nixon has exacerbated the 70s stagflation.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Are you talking about price controls? Or what?

Oh god no price controls please, similar measures by Nixon has exacerbated the 70s stagflation.

"Stagflation" include high inflation. How would his price controls have exacerbated that?

[Picairn]

"Stagflation" include high inflation. How would his price controls have exacerbated that?

High inflation is mainly due to the US' exit from Bretton Woods, which turns the dollar into a floating currency, and the supply shock of the 1973 energy crisis. His price controls, however, caused shortages (such as the shortage of gas, creating the famous "gas lines" of the 70s) which, combined with a dramatic supply shock of the 1973 energy crisis, further decreased supply and increased inflation (through higher prices from the contraction of supply and rising demand of gas and other commodities).

A more detailed explanation from a Nixon official: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicag ... y,amp.html

[Nobel Hobos 2]

"Stagflation" include high inflation. How would his price controls have exacerbated that?

High inflation is mainly due to the US' exit from Bretton Woods, which turns the dollar into a floating currency, and the supply shock of the 1973 energy crisis. His price controls, however, caused shortages (such as the shortage of gas, creating the famous "gas lines" of the 70s) which, combined with a dramatic supply shock of the 1973 energy crisis, further decreased supply and increased inflation (through higher prices from the contraction of supply and rising demand of gas and other commodities).

A more detailed explanation from a Nixon official: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicag ... y,amp.html

If you would blame falling oil extraction in the US on a price controls in 70's, you'd be hard put to explain the long downward trend until around 2008 when fracking caused it to rocket back up. "Peak oil" ... a theory you may consider debunked world wide, but actually applies very well to the US ... works a lot better for me. Until fracking of course.

There was a little peak in extraction after price controls were finally removed. But the way it fell even more steeply after that, makes it just a blip in a trend that looks mostly like Peak Oil.

Rafuse makes an interesting case, but the way he barely considers the OPEC embargo as a factor (kicking off stagflation) tells me he's got an axe to grind.

[Mirjt]

Price controls (done well with indexing and so on) are only one such was to address inflation in consumer goods and rents, there are a number of tactics we can use, and we may wish to use many of them, even if for some reason we choose against using price controls. The reason such a policy is needed is to prevent landlords and corporations from raising prices to funnel any stimulus, stipends, or UBI (that is provided universally to the American people) from the American people to themselves.

[Diahon]

rent controls, price controls, suspend mortgage payments...

... basically, fuck the renters the least, fuck the landlords somewhat, and FUCK BANKS THE HARDEST

that's it, that's the post

[Diahon]

both renters and small-time landlords have been fucked over by this pandemic

time for them to recognize their common interests, band up, and demand positive government on this issue on the double, instead of tearing each other apart

[Mirjt]

rent controls, price controls, suspend mortgage payments...

... basically, fuck the renters the least, fuck the landlords somewhat, and FUCK BANKS THE HARDEST

that's it, that's the post

YES. If you want to put that way.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Except I doubt the banks are being fucked very hard. They lose cash-flow from mortgages, yes, but aren't they going to get all they're owed eventually?

And are they allowed to still keep adding interest to the debts? If so, they'll actually be better off by the time the mortgage is paid down.

[Kowani]

Except I doubt the banks are being fucked very hard. They lose cash-flow from mortgages, yes, but aren't they going to get all they're owed eventually?

And are they allowed to still keep adding interest to the debts? If so, they'll actually be better off by the time the mortgage is paid down.

If a one person owes the bank $1000, that’s their problem.
If 60 million people owe the bank $1000, that’s the bank’s problem.

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are whining because they can't get paid more to sit on their ass watching Netflix than what I get paid to bust my ass in a hot grimy warehouse with no AC. There's part of me that knows mass evictions would be a problem, but there's also part of me that thinks to hell with all the people that have been sitting on their ass doing nothing while we got overwhelmed with more work than we could handle.

If they introduced a universal basic income instead of extending the unemployment benefit, that might be a good option to keep the couch warmers in their homes while still being fair to the rest of us.

But it needs to be done in a way that is fair to people who are still working.

It's not the unemployed making it unfair on you. It's your boss.

[Ostroeuropa]

Exactly. Half-assing things will only lead to failure.

The problem is, price controls don't work.

They don't work if there are supply issues and more demand than supply. But there are more empty houses than homeless people.